Why some of us can't play our favourite planes without irritation? (please fix bombers gameplay)

[Peter_Steele 5]

So it goes like this:

You invest your time, you grind, you buy a Shackelton or any other strategic heavy bomber, you go to arcade battle, you meet domination mode and... nothing to do here. In other scenario (ground attack) you spawn at an altitude where any other enemy fighter plane can climb easily in a minute and even chase you if you want to gain some alt and speed. Again, not much to do here. I see many players in heavy bombers just do their "kamikaze run" to the nearest base or ground targets where they can drop few bombs and get killed right away. Correct me if I'm wrong but... Is this the whole sense to play a heavy bomber in Arcade Mode? Do do a kamikaze run or to be a free frag to enemy fighters?

Gaijin, please let us have more fun and entertainment with bombers, because now it's moslty an irritation.

[Dodo_Dud 5,074]

1 hour ago, Peter_Steele said:

So it goes like this:

You invest your time, you grind, you buy a Shackelton or any other strategic heavy bomber, you go to arcade battle, you meet domination mode and... nothing to do here.

There is plenty to do. Like win? You do have other planes, don't you?

 

1 hour ago, Peter_Steele said:

In other scenario (ground attack) you spawn at an altitude where any other enemy fighter plane can climb easily in a minute and even chase you if you want to gain some alt and speed. Again, not much to do here. I see many players in heavy bombers just do their "kamikaze run" to the nearest base or ground targets where they can drop few bombs and get killed right away. Correct me if I'm wrong but... Is this the whole sense to play a heavy bomber in Arcade Mode? Do do a kamikaze run or to be a free frag to enemy fighters?

With a Shacky you should be able to frag air fields. Question is, have you learned how to frag air fields in lesser bombers? Like a Halifax or a Wellington or a Hampton?

 

Edited February 11, 2022 by Dodo_Dud

[anyuser 5,136]

1 hour ago, Peter_Steele said:

So it goes like this:

You invest your time, you grind, you buy a Shackelton or any other strategic heavy bomber, you go to arcade battle, you meet domination mode and... nothing to do here. In other scenario (ground attack) you spawn at an altitude where any other enemy fighter plane can climb easily in a minute and even chase you if you want to gain some alt and speed. Again, not much to do here. I see many players in heavy bombers just do their "kamikaze run" to the nearest base or ground targets where they can drop few bombs and get killed right away. Correct me if I'm wrong but... Is this the whole sense to play a heavy bomber in Arcade Mode? Do do a kamikaze run or to be a free frag to enemy fighters?

Gaijin, please let us have more fun and entertainment with bombers, because now it's moslty an irritation.

This is not the case for _any_ strategic bomber.

Mostly the brit. nightbombers do have a hard time.

Most of them are slow, clumsy, can't climb and lightly armed because - well, they were intended to fly at night to avoid daylight fighters...

 

A Shackleton is just a Lincoln rebuild for sea patrols. And a Lincoln is just an upgraded Lancaster.

With being a sea patrol plane the Shackleton got even less a place in WT than a night bomber. Like the Fw 200 or all those flight boats it is an more or less easy target and it does not have the guns to be dangerous (like the BV is).

 

But as for many planes, they are in the game because people just wanted them and not because they are efficient.

 

Some of the brit. bombers are good at their BR, like the Hampden or the Hallifax.

Others are not. And it is the same for every nation.

 

But for all bombers, you have to know how to use them, you have to react to the situation and you need some luck. You may not survive the whole match. But if you can get 5 or 6 drops, killing some bases you already did a lot.

 

And for dom. How about NOT flying directly for the ground targets?

[ogragla 675]

Hmmm - i don´t feel like that but i´m a SB-Player for the most part (where those bomber-arcade-mechanics are taken to). Only time i start up another gamemode is during these Summer/Winter events (completing those in SB only can be a PITA) and as i can´t stand RB i go for arcade and those tonnage-tasks (bomb 12 tons on bases or so).

 

Typically these tasks are done in 1-3 matches most of the time without being disturbed by enemies. Just take your time and side-climb a bit.  It´s rather boring tbh.

Edited February 11, 2022 by ogragla

[cashmeowsidehbd 1,269]

posted on this a few days ago. other players pretty much made a mockery of the point i was trying to make kind of like they are to you. For anyone other than the players who can spend hundreds of hours every week learning to play them bombers are nothing more than a target for every fighter on the red team. Something should be done to make them a little more viable for the average players. I made a couple of suggestions but they got shot down pretty quickly by the "million hour" club. One problem i have is the lack of ANY mode to practice using gunners on heavy bombers outside of wasting millions of SL's playing actual missions. There is no way to do this without wasting SL. That is a big problem for me.

[Dodo_Dud 5,074]

39 minutes ago, cashmeowsidehbd said:

posted on this a few days ago. other players pretty much made a mockery of the point i was trying to make kind of like they are to you. For anyone other than the players who can spend hundreds of hours every week learning to play them bombers are nothing more than a target for every fighter on the red team. Something should be done to make them a little more viable for the average players. I made a couple of suggestions but they got shot down pretty quickly by the "million hour" club. One problem i have is the lack of ANY mode to practice using gunners on heavy bombers outside of wasting millions of SL's playing actual missions. There is no way to do this without wasting SL. That is a big problem for me.

 

Look, the point is, among all classes of planes you get at the start, "heavy" bombers require the least practice to play successfully. There is not much to do, they are boring, you can literally make a sandwich while you prepare your mission. All you have to do is "know how". No dexterity, ping, etc. required. Just knowing the plan. No T1 fighter requires this little manual skill.

And being able to use the gunners manually is not even in the needed skillset. Because during a successful (aka profitable) bombing mission, you likely don't touch your gunners. And once you know the game, you don't want to touch your gunners, because bombers have the habbit of quickly maxing crews and acing the vehicle.

[cashmeowsidehbd 1,269]

1 hour ago, Dodo_Dud said:

 

Look, the point is, among all classes of planes you get at the start, "heavy" bombers require the least practice to play successfully. There is not much to do, they are boring, you can literally make a sandwich while you prepare your mission. All you have to do is "know how". No dexterity, ping, etc. required. Just knowing the plan. No T1 fighter requires this little manual skill.

And being able to use the gunners manually is not even in the needed skillset. Because during a successful (aka profitable) bombing mission, you likely don't touch your gunners. And once you know the game, you don't want to touch your gunners, because bombers have the habbit of quickly maxing crews and acing the vehicle.

Hmmm...maybe tell this to the 5 fighters that attack every heavy bomber before they even get halfway to a target? That could help.

[Dodo_Dud 5,074]

1 hour ago, cashmeowsidehbd said:

Hmmm...maybe tell this to the 5 fighters that attack every heavy bomber before they even get halfway to a target? That could help.

 

Which 5 fighters?

 

I readily admit that as a bomber, you do get shot down before you reach the target. But in many cases, you accomplished your main goals before you lose the plane. With a fighter you don't always score a kill either.

Edited February 12, 2022 by Dodo_Dud

[Dodo_Dud 5,074]

On 11/02/2022 at 13:58, Peter_Steele said:

So it goes like this:

You invest your time, you grind, you buy a Shackelton or any other strategic heavy bomber, you go to arcade battle, you meet domination mode and... nothing to do here. In other scenario (ground attack) you spawn at an altitude where any other enemy fighter plane can climb easily in a minute and even chase you if you want to gain some alt and speed. Again, not much to do here. I see many players in heavy bombers just do their "kamikaze run" to the nearest base or ground targets where they can drop few bombs and get killed right away. Correct me if I'm wrong but... Is this the whole sense to play a heavy bomber in Arcade Mode? Do do a kamikaze run or to be a free frag to enemy fighters?

Gaijin, please let us have more fun and entertainment with bombers, because now it's moslty an irritation.

 

So it goes like this:

I read this article. I have in hangar a stock Shackelton since xmas sale. I read this article and wonder: Am I wrong, have things changed so much? So (Friday) I decided that I am going to spade the Shackleton to find out. Maybe I am telling nonsense. What can I say? Things work as advertised, especially if you consider it is the weekend. At first, performance is mediocre, progress is slow. First grind direction is for bomb load. Bigger bombs double the speed of progression, but the bird is still slow and clumsy. So after having the bombs to do the job, the ultimate goal and game changer is always engine injection. Before engine injection, things are lukewarm, after engine injection the cat purrs. With engine injection, I reliable get over the target and manage to kill at least 2 bases. Often I end up over the airfield. But on weekends, matches are usually too short for base destruction. In the last match, even that worked. (see screen). So there is nothing wrong with the Shackleton (or bomber play) in AB. And she is spaded now.

 

Edited February 13, 2022 by Dodo_Dud

[Peter_Steele 5]

On 12/02/2022 at 12:14, cashmeowsidehbd said:

posted on this a few days ago. other players pretty much made a mockery of the point i was trying to make kind of like they are to you. For anyone other than the players who can spend hundreds of hours every week learning to play them bombers are nothing more than a target for every fighter on the red team. Something should be done to make them a little more viable for the average players. I made a couple of suggestions but they got shot down pretty quickly by the "million hour" club. One problem i have is the lack of ANY mode to practice using gunners on heavy bombers outside of wasting millions of SL's playing actual missions. There is no way to do this without wasting SL. That is a big problem for me.

That's it, I'm glad that at least one player here can understand the problem. There is no good game mode for bombers. I am experienced bomber pilot (this is my newer account) and all the advices I got from others here... I tested all of them and I won't change my mind. Gameplay for bombers has to be changed and improved.

 

 

2 hours ago, Dodo_Dud said:

 

So it goes like this:

I read this article. I have in hangar a stock Shackelton since xmas sale. I read this article and wonder: Am I wrong, have things changed so much? So (Friday) I decided that I am going to spade the Shackleton to find out. Maybe I am telling nonsense. What can I say? Things work as advertised, especially if you consider it is the weekend. At first, performance is mediocre, progress is slow. First grind direction is for bomb load. Bigger bombs double the speed of progression, but the bird is still slow and clumsy. So after having the bombs to do the job, the ultimate goal and game changer is always engine injection. Before engine injection, things are lukewarm, after engine injection the cat purrs. With engine injection, I reliable get over the target and manage to kill at least 2 bases. Often I end up over the airfield. But on weekends, matches are usually too short for base destruction. In the last match, even that worked. (see screen). So there is nothing wrong with the Shackleton (or bomber play) in AB. And she is spaded now.

 

Ok, so you had a decent game, good But this is so inconcistent with any bomber in opposite to any other plane type. I just played with my Shackelton too... Arcade Battle, I side climbed to 7000 meters, bombed one base and then P-51, La-5 and Yak-3 got me. Three at once. I invest time to climb to be safe but you can't be safe if any fighter can climb your alt in 2 or 3 minutes. Especially when there is a lot of players that when they see bombers in players list they climbs up from the very start of AB. Again, bombers has to be fixed.

[Dodo_Dud 5,074]

1 hour ago, Peter_Steele said:

Ok, so you had a decent game, good

Not just one. And that result isn't "decent", it is as much as you can expect. I don't expect every run to be like this. But there is nothing wrong with the gameplay of bombers, aside from being boring for much of it. 

 

Let me ask you something: How much text did you type into chat in that game?

 

1 hour ago, Peter_Steele said:

but you can't be safe if any fighter can climb your alt in 2 or 3 minutes

 

But in 3 minutes, you can waste 4 bases. You dont need to be safe much longer...

 

And don't economize on bombs. Just drop them all to get your reload started if you can kill a base with one drop. Time is precious. And don't join late.

 

I just went through your african and irish games and don't really understand what you are griping about! What special treatment do you expect as bomber player? In those two missions, things went good and potentially ok respectively. There is some room for improvement. In africa, you started bombing the air base. Only your death was not neccessairy, as the game was ending in seconds anyway. In ireland, you would have gotten three bases if you had not saved on bombs and spawned without delay.

 

On 11/02/2022 at 13:58, Peter_Steele said:

Do do a kamikaze run or to be a free frag to enemy fighters?

Neither happened in those two games. So again, what are you griping about?

 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2022 by Dodo_Dud

[anyuser 5,136]

2 hours ago, Peter_Steele said:

I invest time to climb to be safe but you can't be safe if any fighter can climb your alt in 2 or 3 minutes. Especially when there is a lot of players that when they see bombers in players list they climbs up from the very start of AB. Again, bombers has to be fixed.

2 to 3 min is much longer than the normal lifespan of a fighter.

And when you got a fully skilled reload skill and expert you can drop bombs roughly every 30s. It is just a question if you can fly in a way to be on target that moment. I see to many players dropping and flying over the base to fly further away and then turn around. But with the load of your Shakleton, 2 bases.

You get our one drop, killing a few GTs or heavily damaging a base, you did more than most fighters archive in one flyout.

You kill a base, you did something that equals several ground or airkills ticket wise. This has to be risky, to equal the influence on the battle...

And the airfield - well, it is instand win.

 

While being a high risk high reward thing, it is still boring and often dull.

 

 

And fixed?
What do expect.

An unchallenged approach to a target with a free drop and that way free SL and XP, while the enemy is loosing tickets?

Surviving the whole game?

Unchallenged XP and SL for fighters just for staying close (to a blue one)? While close escort is the worst escort you an get and Gaijin already deleted XP and SL for being close to an enemy.

 

In fact in WT we ware flying Close Air Support and Frontline Support / Deep Air Support scenarios.

Heavy bombers, even less sea patrol planes, have been used for this role.

We don't got much room for Night Fighters

 

Personally I do prefer light to med bombers, while I usually avoid everything with 4 engines, because they are not very flexible.

For example the last time I took out my italian 1007 I was able to drop 3 times while under attack by 3 fighters, after diving down to the deck from high alt, dropping one load in the process and dropping bombs before from high alt.

Mostly because that plane can take a punch and can surprise enemies by its agility. Even more when they try to hit you with mouse aim, while you use the keyboard.

Edited February 13, 2022 by anyuser

[cashmeowsidehbd 1,269]

take out lancaster, drop all but one bomb, side climb, watch for single red fighter to come your way, exit game, repeat until you get lucky and all the red fighters ignore you. Is that any way to have fun playing a game? Is this the way it should be? Can it be better? Can we look in to this again? That's all i want to know. Can gaijin and the player base take a long look at the heavy bomber gameplay situation and update it so it is a more feasible way to play. These bombers were never intended to be used in any way other than in massed formations with escorts. How can the game be adapted so they are more "usable" than they are now? AI bombers flying in formation with player controlled planes? That can be provide authentic fire support and be shot down for full points by red players? What about that? Every blue heavy bomber gets a close formation of 3 AI planes of the same model plane that provide close fire support but don't drop bombs, but can be shot down for full credit and score by the red team? Good compromise? IDK. Just thinking outside the box.

[anyuser 5,136]

In an hostile environment bombers have to rely on fighters.

If this isn't possible, squeeze out as many lions out of the situation as possible and done.

 

Combat Box is a 2 edged sword.

For a Lanc with no belly turret and only 7mm guns? While the AI combat boxes in SP missions do show they can hurt with 7mm, it won't help you that much.

A formation of 4 BV, Ju288, He177, B-17, B-29 or Tu-4?
Might want to say goodbye to your airfield, because nobody would dare to hop on that one.

 

Problem, the bombers are very different in their ability to survive and to shoot back.

Doing the same for them all to make the weak ones shine will make the good ones flying pillboxes who will be able to shoot their way through any formation of fighters.

 

 

Would like to ask why it is always crying about the weak bombers, that are used as an example for "all bombers are soooo weak", while nobody cares about the weak fighters we got in game that are used outside of their role and make no sense in WT. And nobody does use them as an excuse for any idea.

Looking at you  Do217J/N.

Might it be because weak fighters are just an - well, it is that way, while seemingly every bomber has to work out all the time?

That's not how it work.

Edited February 14, 2022 by anyuser

[Dodo_Dud 5,074]

1 hour ago, cashmeowsidehbd said:

take out lancaster, drop all but one bomb, side climb, watch for single red fighter to come your way, exit game, repeat until you get lucky and all the red fighters ignore you. Is that any way to have fun playing a game? Is this the way it should be? Can it be better? Can we look in to this again?

 

 

Sure: Take out a stirling, drop all but one bomb, destroy your own vehicles with them, climb almost straightforward, get 3 bases. Then give up altitude to bomb a plane on the runway. Drop several rounds on the airfield without gaining altitude. Be shot down with over 1600 points on atm 2nd place. Everyone else in upper half of scoreboard has lost at least 2 planes by now. Cry me a river!

Edited February 14, 2022 by Dodo_Dud

[Peter_Steele 5]

On 13/02/2022 at 19:29, Dodo_Dud said:

Let me ask you something: How much text did you type into chat in that game?

What do you mean? In WT in general? I like to chat quite a lot

[Dodo_Dud 5,074]

1 hour ago, Peter_Steele said:

What do you mean? In WT in general? I like to chat quite a lot

 

During the mission. But I remembered correctly, you actually talk to the red team, pleading for mercy. Not sure if that is the best idea. I prefer to talk to the blue team. Sometimes you can get an escort that way or people help you out. Just don't use the "Why don't I have an escort, damn it! No one helps!" tone. Be constructive.

[cashmeowsidehbd 1,269]

21 hours ago, Dodo_Dud said:

 

 

Sure: Take out a stirling, drop all but one bomb, destroy your own vehicles with them, climb almost straightforward, get 3 bases. Then give up altitude to bomb a plane on the runway. Drop several rounds on the airfield without gaining altitude. Be shot down with over 1600 points on atm 2nd place. Everyone else in upper half of scoreboard has lost at least 2 planes by now. Cry me a river!

What on earth are you talking about? (LOL!)

[Dodo_Dud 5,074]

9 minutes ago, cashmeowsidehbd said:

What on earth are you talking about? (LOL!)

 

You over africa...

Edited February 15, 2022 by Dodo_Dud

[cashmeowsidehbd 1,269]

37 minutes ago, Dodo_Dud said:

 

You over africa...

uh...that must have been my damn 7 year old neighbor kid sneaking around again. I'm not that good.

[anyuser 5,136]

4 hours ago, Dodo_Dud said:

 Just don't use the "Why don't I have an escort, damn it! No one helps!" tone. Be constructive.

It doesn't help to do the spearhead of the attack, regardless if diving or not, and demanding escort by the command menu either.

Fighters want to get in position too and not everyone is joyfully going into the next headon with a high death chance just to "protect" the bomber behind him.

Better to stay away from the action and see what you will get in the end. Then you can decide how to move on anyway.

[Dodo_Dud 5,074]

I often find people who climb with me.

[FailBoatCaptain 439]

base bombing , ugh 

 

However its my job to annoy the red team.. I'd do the same to the blue team too if the game would let me so don't feel bad