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Skyranger 30 on Boxer


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Rheinmetall Skyranger 30 on Boxer  

124 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the Skyranger 30 be added to War Thunder?

    • Yes
      124
    • No
      0
  2. 2. At what BR should the Skyranger be added?

    • 10.0
      45
    • 10.3
      31
    • 10.7
      31
    • 11.0
      13
    • Other, please specify in the comments
      4
    • Already voted no
      0


A new SPAA for Germany

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/485523264437747722/942684695479586866/unknown.png

History

In the last years, small UAVs proved to be an increasing danger to military units, including tanks. Conventional gun based anti-air systems are largely unable to hit these targets while missiles are too expensive and supply heavy to take out potential swarm attacks. One of the potential solution to this problem was the Skyranger 35, a development by Rheinmetall to combine the 35/1000 revolver cannon with the Boxer chassis. The 35mm caliber was able to use AHEAD, a time fused round that would eject a cloud of small subprojectiles in a more controlled manner as high explosive fragmentation would. But as the 35mm cannon is pretty large, the turret was unable to house any search radar or missile systems and at the same time significantly increased the signature of the vehicle. On 3rd of March 2021 the Skyranger 30 was unveiled where Rheinmetall tries to solve these issues. The change from the 35mm to a 30mm cannon decreased the space required for gun and ammunition enough that the entire turret could be made smaller while at the same time still having enough space to carry its own search radar and a missile launcher for targets at longer range. The system were already tested in relevant environments, with a complete prototype being tested somewhere around the end of 2021. The system recieved its first upgrade in 2022 when a laser was mounted on the turret, although this modification is not included in this suggestion.

General Ovierview

The Skyranger 30 is a 2.5 ton heavy turret mounted on a Boxer chassis. Using a modernized version of the 30mm KCA gun of the Viggen, called KCE-ABM, its able to fire HEI-T, FAP, APFSDS-T and AHEAD as well as training ammunition. The armament further includes a twin missile launcher for Starstreak as well as one 7.62mm MG5A1 and 2x9 smoke launchers for self defense. Both turret and chassis are armored to STANAG 4569 Level 4, which equals around 40mm of armor all around. The turret is unmanned and includes 5 AESA radar panels for constant 360° radar surveillance and a passive IR scanner. Tracking is done by the main optics. Crew consists of 3 men: driver, gunner and commander.

grafik.png.0f7a80acd211c8301ad6ca56dc30b

grafik.png.9a57dafcad625660b2dd5cb099ced

The Chassis

Skyranger 30 uses a normal Boxer chassis armored with AMAP composite armor to withstand 14.5x114mm AP (AP-I(c) ingame) at 200m, which equals around 39.6mm of protection using the ingame protection analysis tool, giving it an empty weight of 24 tons. Sadly I dont know the weight of the Boxer with mission module, so I cant exactly name the weight of the complete vehicle. But as the Boxer is designed around a maximum weight of 36.5 tons and was able to carry the 4.3 ton heavy Skyranger 35, the 2.5 ton heavy Skyranger 30 would make this vehicle around 34.7 tons heavy. Combined with the 530 kw (711 hp) MTU 8V199 TE20, this gives this it slightly above 20 hp/t. Transmission is a Allison HD4070 with 7 forward and 3 reverse gears, allowing the Boxer to accelerate up to 103 km/h. It is an all wheel drive vehicle with the front 4 wheels used for steering.

The driver is seated in the front right, with the power pack in the front left. The gunner and commander are both seated in the rear mission module next to each other.

[Graphics from the Skyranger 35, the interior is virtually identical with the 30 as only the turret itself has been changed]

Spoiler

https://defence-ua.com/media/contentimages/ed06043d9f9a77db.jpg

https://defence-ua.com/media/contentimages/5656043bfb503915.jpg

Gunner and commander share control over the gun. Reserve ammunition is also stored here, sadly no information on this could be found, so I have to leave this up to Gajin.

The Turret

grafik.png.e0a0d86c3b3382732e47863aa60a1

The turret is armed to STANAG 4569 just like the chassis. 5 Radar panels (cyan) are stored around the turret, with 2 at the front, two at the sides and 1 at the rear to provide constant 360° surveillance of the surroundings while a FIRST infrared scanner (blue) is mounted ontop the right side of the turret for passive search. The main optics with its sensor package (green) is mounted on the rear of the turret. Directly behind the gun is a hatch from which the crew can reload the ammunition or survey the surroundings, ammunition is stored on the right. Exact traverse speeds are not known.

Armament

Oerlikon KCE-ABM (red) with 252 rounds ready to fire. As the weapon is a revolver cannon, there is only a single belt and no dual feed. It has a maximum firerate of 1200 rounds per minute. Muzzle velocity for full caliber rounds is 1075 m/s. Its capable of firing on the move and can elevate to +85° and depress to -10°.

grafik.png.29955ef32ee90ec328c04925797c5

 

MG5A1 (yellow), mounted coaxially to the gun, it can fire at up to 800 rounds per minute. Uses the same 7.62mm ammunition we already see on the MG3A1 ingame.

grafik.png.df2633f63c5adc67a3c658ee83165

Twin launcher (orange) for VSHORAD, Starstreak has been specificially named.

grafik.png.cd39bfabc918d2a7d4da8ffe2ba48 grafik.png.05c374931b998afac03c23bbc0e62

ingame datasheet from Stormer HVM

Spoiler

grafik.png.3125a808fa130eefc9ed4caba6492

2x9 Rosy 40mm smoke launcher packages, in 3 rows of 3 launchers each. This would give the Skyranger 3 salvos of 6 grenades.

Rosy uses 40x280 red phosphorus rounds that have a deployment time of around 1 second and a duration of 15+ seconds

grafik.png.66d3fb3c5cfb8d122cff42159fc51 grafik.png.5d9ccb8114fbb2aba62223b437311

grafik.png.ca5fdf174736f0c1c1ff89556582f

30mm Ammunition

HEI-T

Since we already have a 30x173mm HEI-T projectile ingame, the values of that can be taken, except for the muzzle velocity which sits at 1075 m/s for the KDE.

Spoiler

grafik.png.d591980e10257f0ad443dc3984859

FAP

There is no known information about 30x173 FAP ammunition, I assume the FAPIDS PMC 283 is meant here. It flies at 1405 m/s. FAPDS is generally very similar in penetration depth to APDS, although it has vastly improved spalling. Because of that, it can be assumed to perform similar to the 30x173mm APDS projectile already ingame

Spoiler

grafik.png.c2890cfc332bdd241848a41dc5823

APFSDS-T

Since we already have a 30x173mm APFSDS-T projectile ingame, the values of that can be taken.

Spoiler

grafik.png.e65a577f65229064f50b27c33d226

AHEAD

grafik.png.7e75ad120b20a660a2665bb731da3

The alternative name of this ammunition is KE-TF. Its a time fused projectile that uses a small explosive charge of 0.5g to eject 162 cylindrical subprojectiles made out of 1.24g of tungsten. The timed fuse is programmed at the muzzle of the gun to explode infront of the target and shower it in subprojectiles. It flies at 1075 m/s just like the HEI-T

Spoiler

grafik.png.21519e2533541a01dad2691943244

grafik.png.96df76f175251715d357d16a602f2

Results of 35mm AHEAD on a helicopter

https://topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2019-10/1570463205_ahead-8.jpg

The penetration of the subprojectiles depends on the projectiles and the subprojectiles travel timehttps://present5.com/presentacii-2/20171213/37982-buckley.ppt/37982-buckley_13.jpg

AHEAD can also be fired unfused, then it behaves like a FAP round. Tests showed it to be capable of penetrating 200mm of concrete, which using Gajins own RHAe modifier of 0.35 gives it around 70mm of penetration.

https://present5.com/presentacii-2/20171213/37982-buckley.ppt/37982-buckley_16.jpg

Optics & Electronics

The main electro optical sensor package for tracking (green) includes a HD TV camera with a variable 30° to 1° FoV as well as a HD IR (thermal) camera with 21.8°/4.6°/1.3° FoV. Assuming the ~76° FoV at x1 zoom all top tier tanks ingame have, this gives a x2.5 to x76 zoom for the TV and x3.5/x16.5/x60 for the IR camera. Additionally a laser rangefinder is included. The sensor package can rotate independantly of turret, depress to -15° and elevate to +85°. It has a video tracker optimized for air targets.

The main AESA search radar operates in the S or X bands, has a maximum range of 20km and covers the entire 360° around the turret from -5° downwards to +85° upwards.

The alternative search method is the optical FIRST (Fast InfraRed Search and Track), which operates passively in a similar manner to the ADAD Search IRST on Stormer or Ozelot. It covers 360° as well, but only from 0° to +18° vertically.

Personal thoughts

Spoiler

The Skyranger could be good vehicle for high tier Germany, as currently there are no vehicles that provide both a main gun and a missile system. With AHEAD, the main gun can be very deadly against planes potentially even ATGMs while Starstreak can defend against further away helicopters. Since AHEAD has some penetration when fired unfused, it can be used in a pure belt and the vehicle can still defend itself. (F)APDS could be made available stock in a mixed belt with HE, while APFSDS / HE mixed belts can be a upgrade option next to AHEAD. The radar of this vehicle is unmatched to what is currently ingame, expecially in elevation, and the alternative IR scanner can be a deadly surprise to helicopters, but overall this vehicle doesnt appear too out of place. Its missile armament is somewhat shorter ranged and of limited availability, making this a more gun focused SPAA.

Additional images

Spoiler

https://euro-sd.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Skyranger30_1_Rheinmetall.png

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EwwYI3OXIAIGU8r?format=jpg&name=large

https://www.militaeraktuell.at/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/09_Rheinmetall-Skyranger-30-Turm.jpg

 

 

Sources

 

 

Edited by L963
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  • 3 weeks later...
15 hours ago, ItssLuBu said:

Approved and open for discussion. :salute:

thanks

 

1 hour ago, Yontzee said:

Has a similar mission to the U.S. Army’s M-SHORAD. Would like to see +1

Infact yes, they are both pretty similar in terms of armament, sensors and chassis

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16 minutes ago, L963 said:

thanks

 

Infact yes, they are both pretty similar in terms of armament, sensors and chassis

Is there any information if it’s being adopted by the German Army?

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'd love to see this vehicle come, but I do see a few possible trouble points. We have AHEAD currently being added with the SPz Puma, and due to gaijins implementation of modern programable time fuzed shells, there is a high chance the shell becomes borderline worthless unless gaijin allows an optical or radar lock to autoset the fuze for optimal intercept. Starstreaks are also a troubled munition ingame, and wheeled vehicles struggle much more than they should with remaining mobile, especially when their power to weight ratio isnt great. Sitting at 20 hp/t, i could see this thing often struggling if not on a road in WT.

 

Itd be wonderfull to have more top tier proxy shell based AA's though, as guided munitions are becoming the single defining winning factor in GFRB and we lack adequate means of defending ground forces from things like mavericks, walleyes and Kh-25's. Maybe gaijin should think of implementing a small reward for shooting enemy munitions out of the sky?

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Thanks for the answer!

Yes, AHEAD is troubling to watch, although I hope that Gajin fixes them in some way. Additionally Skyranger as dedicated SPAA would definitely get target trackings

Starstreak are arent great either, but the only alternative I have seen are IR guided SAMs, probably Stinger, which are even worse

The mobility should be more than fine, expecially for an SPAA. 20 hp/t are around the same as the original Centauro

 

I honestly mainly suggested this because I find the detection suite so interesting

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2 hours ago, L963 said:

Thanks for the answer!

Yes, AHEAD is troubling to watch, although I hope that Gajin fixes them in some way. Additionally Skyranger as dedicated SPAA would definitely get target trackings

Starstreak are arent great either, but the only alternative I have seen are IR guided SAMs, probably Stinger, which are even worse

The mobility should be more than fine, expecially for an SPAA. 20 hp/t are around the same as the original Centauro

 

I honestly mainly suggested this because I find the detection suite so interesting

*screams of Ozelot in IR SAM purgatory*

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  • 1 month later...

Yes, anything that is a Skyranger, I love the Skyranger. I wish it didn't have Starstreak so it could slot into a BR where its cannon is more effective for anti-ground but it'll still probably be pretty good at anti-ground when needed. AHEAD would probably work better on the Skyranger considering it will actually have the ability to lock.

Edited by Epsilon160

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16 minutes ago, Epsilon160 said:

Yes, anything that is a Skyranger, I love the Skyranger. I wish it didn't have Starstreak so it could slot into a BR where its cannon is more effective for anti-ground but it'll still probably be pretty good at anti-ground when needed. AHEAD would probably work better on the Skyranger considering it will actually have the ability to lock.

There still is the 35mm variant that doesnt use missiles. Although there also has been mentions of Skyranger 30 using Stinger, with how its currently performing ingame thats honestly not something anyone would want.

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Could the 30 HEL variant be a modification to this? It would be cool to have a directed energy weapon, especially as it can eliminate weapons, so it could probably work against stuff like AGMs and ATGMs in a similar way to the tanks from the 2077 event.

Edited by Epsilon160

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11 hours ago, Epsilon160 said:

Could the 30 HEL variant be a modification to this? It would be cool to have a directed energy weapon, especially as it can eliminate weapons, so it could probably work against stuff like AGMs and ATGMs in a similar way to the tanks from the 2077 event.

In theory, it could be a modification. But the issue is that the laser isnt an independant weapon station that could automatically target ATGMs

Spoiler

https://esut.de/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Skyranger-30-HEL_Rheinmetall.jpg

Its integrated into the tracking/targetting optics and as such can only shoot at whatever the player is currently looking at. Of course it could still implemented as a MG like weapon that has very low damage with maximum possible speed ...

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7 hours ago, BagelIsMyWaifu said:

In theory, it could be a modification. But the issue is that the laser isnt an independant weapon station that could automatically target ATGMs

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Its integrated into the tracking/targetting optics and as such can only shoot at whatever the player is currently looking at. Of course it could still implemented as a MG like weapon that has very low damage with maximum possible speed ...

Maybe they could introduce a button to slew to and track missiles specifically when detected on radar.

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...

The HEL variant won't be very high power judging by the size of the chassis. Maybe few kW at most, enough to melt a plastic drone or jam thermal optics on an infrared tracker. 10kW is where you just start getting into 'kill a mortar' type territory and they are still fridge sized. 

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3 minutes ago, N4CR_ said:

The HEL variant won't be very high power judging by the size of the chassis. Maybe few kW at most, enough to melt a plastic drone or jam thermal optics on an infrared tracker. 10kW is where you just start getting into 'kill a mortar' type territory and they are still fridge sized. 

Yeah from how I understood it its mostly against drones, although if I understood Rheinmetalls wording correctly, they are planning to use a 20 to 50 kW system

Quote

In live trials, current technology sample systems for laser weapon systems have successfully achieved laser outputs of 20kW. The ability to increase this figure to 100kW is already an integral feature of this technology. The laser weapon station used here has its own sensors for identifying and tracking targets.

[...]

Laser outputs of up 20-50 kW are planned for the first realization phase.

Late last year, the Skyranger HEL was presented in public for the first time at a counter-drone event held by the Swiss procurement agency armasuisse in Bure, Switzerland

https://www.rheinmetall.com/en/rheinmetall_ag/press/news/latest_news/index_29504.php

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Images from Eurosatory 2022

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVIU47dWIAAsxJL?format=jpg&name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVIU5sGWQAUkHXb?format=jpg&name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVIU5VjWUAE2pc_?format=jpg&name=large

From left to right: AHEAD, TP-T, APFSDS, FAPDS-T and HEI-T. This shows the soft material of the FAPDS really well

 

Also notice that its still the base model, not the HEL

 

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19 minutes ago, BagelIsMyWaifu said:

Yeah from how I understood it its mostly against drones, although if I understood Rheinmetalls wording correctly, they are planning to use a 20 to 50 kW system

https://www.rheinmetall.com/en/rheinmetall_ag/press/news/latest_news/index_29504.php

Interesting thanks, that is probably what the large space between driver and gunner/commander is then, mostly 1080nm fibre laser. Crazy, didn't expect that.
Thing is they can't have a very long feed fibre from the source or the beam quality goes down, so it has to be close to turret. 

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