Hit registration is Horrid

[VaperTrail 343]

It is so inconsistent from match to match, consequently the game steals from you as you fire ghost shells into the never never magazine after magazine, there is nothing that kills a FPS game than not getting hits that you know are kills, and then to rub it in,  you get killed because you hung around to long. I hate flying circles around somebody and end up just turning away because nothing hits, I also hate going against a really good player and Ive got the shot and dont get the kill and then you die, its total BS.

 

32 player matches make it worse, sometime I,ll spectate many players on my team only to see the whole team has poor hit sync, which points towards the server.

 

Some matches you can snap kill easy and then a minute later its off with the fairies again where you cannot hit a wall with a hand full of rice, the very reason I wont invest another dime in the game is the inconsistency here, Im competitive it drives me crazy, I had better hit sync playing Quake over dialup.

 

The ping numbers reported by the game do not reflect the many seconds of hit lag,  not milliseconds, seconds, it also effects maneuvering anywhere near ground mountain trees runway etc,  turning up with plenty of clearance the game will suck you into the ground like a vacuum cleaner, main reason I dont try and cap airfields just as youre about to touch its boom straight vertical down and crash, other times, rarely, its high speed touch and goes smooth and easy. No doubt its great for people that sit on servers but that defeats the point of getting as many players as possible to invest, nothing in a FPS game is worth more than hit registration without you got nothing but floss.

 

I understand lag is in all online shooters, and being in Aus we have added lag, but this is more than that, this has gotten worse since I started playing WT, its like the server farm the game uses is all over the shop, really good for about 1 match in 5, those other 4 are an education in frustration, its not fun and in no way inspires me to pay money for the experience.

 

Id also like to see the ping numbers of all players in a match beside their name, it would change how high ping people play.

 

If Gaijin invested into getting everybody the best connection they could, then rewrite the objectives and scoring system which is a mess, I believe their revenue would increase by 30%, they seem to think that adding fluff is the way to go, where I think fine tune what you have into the best experience it can be and many more players will come onboard.

[Scotix 0]

True 100% up

I came back to WT last week since then I have always 40-60ms ping in WT wich is not normal, since my ping is 20ms~. sometimes if I head somone or chase him, he litert. flying stright, I shoot whole mag and sometimes not a single hit. I know from other games I cant play FPS games with 40-60ms cuz of Peakers advantage, better ping = who its first etc. its just bad for me. I dont play then often games with this type of pings cuz I know I will loose any fight, im playing on EU servers and connecting from Germany,I also have problems when the servers are to far away from my spot where I connect, like for example Amsterdam(30-38ms),London(40-45ms),Paris(40-50ms) thats why I avoid those Servers,but here in WT u can only cuz EU thats it,  the servers are trash, sometimes I also get PL when there is alot of Console players.

I just think when I take a look on the Steam charts this game has atm 45k average players, Shop deals atm kinda expensive, Gaijin cant effort anymore stable Servers I bet. thats why they has 1 Server only each region. Atleast I can play Ground forces Tank battles with less problems, I dont care there, it happens less to me someone has ping advantage, (when he and me Shot and the same time often I die first, my shot dont get registrated or my shot dont get out the barrel).

I was looking for simalar games but I couldnt find one like WT

Edited May 6, 2022 by Scotix

[magicfluteb 1]

I live in the US practically within walking distance to the East Coast server (my ping is very, very low), and I,too, have experienced the same things.  It's nothing new: some games I'm snap killing all over the place; in others, I empty my guns on target ... nothing.  Many times, critical hits are registered, but they keep flying around like a deer, completely unaffected.  I get minor hits, and all of a sudden my plane is floundering around like a wounded whale. It happens quite regularly:  I hit them, they keep flying as if nothing happened; I get hit, I'm immobile.  But, the most annoying thing is what you've described: you are maneuvering near the ground, plenty of speed and plenty of clearance, and all of a sudden you fall straight down into the ground like a brick. 

 

As I have said, it's nothing new, and I can't quite figure it out ...

[DocProfit 2,663]

Try being in New Zealand - best server is US, with a 190-220 ping.

 

I used to play AB only and had to switch to the slower pace of RB, as it was getting too frustrating trying to land snap shots in an environment where even P-47s can zip around like spitfires.

 

 

I've never been able to put my finger on it, but every single long-term player I've talked to in WT agrees that there is some sort of wild inconsistency with the hit registration.  This includes people with super low pings.

 

 

It's almost like if you play one plane too much, it starts becoming harder to get kills. (Conspiracy theory alert)

 

Then you switch to something different and suddenly you're one shoting everything (for a while).

Edited June 1, 2022 by DocProfit

[FailBoatCaptain 439]

welcome to matchmaking lag thunder

[magicfluteb 1]

  You know, a similar thought crossed my mind related to the "conspiracy theory alert."  During one particularly frustrating session, it struck me that it seemed if you are playing one plane too long and are regularly landing in the top tier of the game, a kind of "handicap" is imposed on you to sort of even-out the playing field.  But then ... I pushed it out of my mind ... too fanciful and ridiculous to even contemplate ...

[cashmeowsidehbd 1,269]

hit registration? Since when?

[Lt_PeteMitchell 920]

On 02/06/2022 at 06:17, DocProfit said:

Try being in New Zealand - best server is US, with a 190-220 ping.

 

I used to play AB only and had to switch to the slower pace of RB, as it was getting too frustrating trying to land snap shots in an environment where even P-47s can zip around like spitfires.

 

 

I've never been able to put my finger on it, but every single long-term player I've talked to in WT agrees that there is some sort of wild inconsistency with the hit registration.  This includes people with super low pings.

 

 

It's almost like if you play one plane too much, it starts becoming harder to get kills. (Conspiracy theory alert)

 

Then you switch to something different and suddenly you're one shoting everything (for a while).

 

This ^^^^

 

Similar for me in Australia, where anything under 200 is good.

 

I'm sorry, but buttercups complaining about ping of well under 100 and saying it is unplayable need to suck it up.

 

The rest of us manage fine with a heap worse than that.

[LeChance 926]

We have the "freedom" here, to select the server(s) we wish to play. This is a good/bad thing, a double-edged sword if you will. Good for the choice option, bad in that it allows players with pings all over the place to be in the same games. WT is one of the only games I have played( I own a lot of online games, but only play a couple regularly, WT the most by far) where there is no "connection based" matchmaking. Other games, you do select the server you play, the game checks your connection and then puts you on a server, usually the nearest one to you I assume, where you play with/against others with the same or similar pings/latency. This in turn "levels the playing field". And from my experience here, good ping is not always an indicator you will have good hit detection. I believe this to be because of the vast variety of pings for all players in any given game. If you are having trouble getting hits to register in a game, it may be the large difference in your ping and the ones you are shooting at. I live in the center of the US and I have pretty good internet and can play all servers under 200 ping any time of day. I do not play the EU server anymore, and haven;t for a while because the hit detection is very inconsistent for me on that server . .. . I don't know why. It is the second best ping I get of all 4 server areas. I just experience what you guys have been mentioning on a much more regular basis, so I have that box unticked. Shouldn't be an issue, but almost every PvE tournament or anything like that, is gonna be on the EU server . . . so I don't bother. They keep speeding up things overall in the game, especially air combat, which is what I generally play. And yes, I play AB . . .  which has gotten to the point now where it is almost as wacky fast as this "Tail Spin" event they throw out there. And I can honestly say, I see a good many times where the game simply cannot keep up with the action, the calculations are off and resulting game play gets . . .  weird. Faster is not "better" it is just faster. And if the game is cranked up so fast that it cannot keep up with what is going on . . ..  time to dial it back or at the very least stop speeding it up. I play AB because I lack patience, enjoy the faster pace(to a degree) and constant action. But if they turn it up anymore, I am afraid I would have to find something else to do here. Between these hit detection issues and over amped game play . . . . getting harder to enjoy and a lot less "game" to it . . . .They have made it really easy to kill stuff in this game, which is ok  . .  same for everyone but has a downside that you die . . .  a lot at times. And not having your hits register just adds to the frustration that is inevitable . . . lol. It used to be fun to get into actual "dogfights" in air combat, those are pretty rare now. The "grind" forces players to alter their game play it seems and this added "pressure" seems to make any/all issues concerning game play more important than maybe they should. At least to many players I would guess. At any rate it is still a very nice looking game, usually fun to play and even tho most vehicles perform a lot better here than their real life counterparts do, it still has it's moments and I think that is what keeps us coming back to play. This Update seems to have some issues, but every game I have ever played that can be the case. I hope they sort out that stuff quickly. But I am wise enough to know, they ain't gonna change the game to suit "me" . . . lol, and that's ok. I will play the game I am given, until I don't.

[VaperTrail 343]

So many truths in the thread, I hate to say it but Im glad Im not the only one, I love playing the game and play nearly every day, for less than 15 minutes before Im frustrated abusing the monitor and logging off only to do it again the next night, Id love to play this over a Lan, cant do that, cant even play a mission against AI without the same all over the place hit registration.

 

Its the only reason I wont spend any more money on the game, I dont think Im the Lone Ranger and they might be surprised how much this issue effects the games overall revenue.

[magicfluteb 1]

I think that my suspicions may have been correct ...

 

 

• Is it possible that Steam is restricting its users?

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 03 Jan 2022, 15:28

WelcomeInNewWorld wrote: ↑

03 Jan 2022, 09:37

That electricity is an assumption in this whole mess is harsh.
It reminds me of the longest topic on this forum in this section where a member of this forum shared a Youtube link of an audiophile in Japan who had his own power pole built in front of his house. its an electric pole that says **** to others in the street
Or an article on the site of the famous Dignitas structure that talked about the "heavy car" feeling in Rocket League with solutions that are actually not, and not once electricity is mentioned

Sorry for the bluntness -- but here is my longer "sorry, not sorry" technical explanation...

While electrical issues are possible, it was never found the culprit when it comes to comparing the latency of two different Steam accounts. It was often traced to something mundane -- even one account having more registry bloat, or configuration file bloat, or simply more disk-seeking (Because of more fragmented savegame files), or other weird issues. Even how your account is siloed to a different (laggier) game server.

There are literally millions of tiny weird issues that have historically often explained performance differences between two Steam accounts, and troubleshooting this is often a crapshoot. But it was never traced to an electrical issue for this specific type of issue (even though electrical issues are legit).

The fact that Blur Busters has confirmed (with evidence) electrical lag issues is a real thing... Does not deny the fact that I am familiar with the "Steam accounts feel different" factor, and the reasons have never been definitively (evidence) traced to electrical wiring issues for this specific issue. Of course, unless you consider network-based (DSL/Cable) interference issues as electrical: fair game. So, I'm mic dropping this debate with a wall of text of much more common/obvious causes of performance differences between account logins. Read on.

Without naming specific games.... the codes of modern online games themselves are so complex with millions of lines of codes connecting to thousands of different servers, so even being automatically siloed to a slower-network-category vs faster-network-category. Your system was hidden-benchmarked by the game upon game startup, and statistics A, B, C, and D can vary between benchmark runs or historical scores data (e.g. ELO data, frag data, level-up data, etc), which can -configure the settings very differently for different online games.

Data variable A may be your levelup data.
Data variable B may be your network performance data
Data variable C may be your computer performance data
Data variable D may be what machine you are playing on (console, mobile, PC, AMD, NVIDIA, etc)
Data variable E may be your "are you a bot" AI likelihood percentage threshold (if server unsure)
Data F may be who knows...
....Some games may only use a few. Other games may have hundreds of variables going far beyond (F,G,H,I,J,K,L,etc,etc,etc) stretching out to hundred other math variables (Fine granularity like your game detail setting and/or whether you chose gamepad or mouse) that decides how difficult/easy you are and how lag-handicapped you become (artificial game-engine-intentional lag added to you to match the latency of your competitors). In statistic modeling, game developers discover that "Detail setting X" makes players perform 3.5% better, and decide that variable X now needs to be part of the playing-field-leveling algorithm. So the algorithms are continually changing and "improving", to try to improve the levelness of the playing field. Even the AI likelihood percentages may group you onto a honeypot server that tries to push all of them harder to more easily separate the AI bots from the superhumans (one undisclosed game is rumored to do this at least temporarily in an experiment on whether it was easier to catch AI bots this way). It's really crazy the arms race going on to keep improving the fairness algorithms.

These server-matching algorithms are really voodoo. Historically good gaming might mean you get connected to more difficult servers, while a brand new account will connect you to easier servers. Some variables do age out (e.g. benchmark at the original account--creation time) but not all variables do (e.g. your skills/level-up data). Even things like creating an account offpeak versus creating an account at peak might cause you to be semi-permanently siloed into a specific class of sever-auto-connect groups or whatever, or other auto-handicap-balancing algorithms to try to level the playing field (in a very imperfect and flawed way). And all this information is hidden-proprietary in many of these damn game engines.

If there is more evidence that electrical issues domino-effect to modifying one of these variables, perhaps post with good hard scientific data. In this case, it would be a very brute Rube Goldberg machine literally (e.g. benchmarks going down a huge % enough to affect a variable more than other things). But one would have to spill true evidence of this, and all the algorithms I've seen and heard of are incapable of accidentally including electrical issues (except for noise on DSL/cable line, or a crash-history counter, or such -- such superficial connections and terminology-stretching to what is being described as "electrical issues" here).

One game may (unfairly) bias too much on computer benchmarks, while another game might (unfairly) bias too much on previous skills playing the same game, and hook you to much harder servers just because you had a great spell of gaming sometime in the last few years on that game -- the algorithms tend to never forget your historic performance, alas. Or a different game might keep its algorithm much simpler, but it's full of cheat/bot players because its algorithm was too simple to discover. Or whatever. There are a lot of pick-poison effects going on behind the scenes.

Some of these game matching/autoconfiguration/server matching/whatever proprietary algorithms are almost more voodoo than Facebook's feed-generator algorithm (that makes you addicted to social media). But that's what a lot of this has historically been traced to, unlike electrical issues. It's just an unceremonious duhobviousman mic-drop here, as I am a software developer that talk to many game developers (and even helped some game developers with high-Hz development advice) in the past too. So this is far beyond just watercooler talk.

It's scary all the bleep that's in some of the code that creates this accidental unfairness (simply because you launched and connected at a bad time, or created a new account on a faster-computer-faster-internet vs slower-computer-slower-internet. In a world of matching iPad-vs-PC-vs-Mac-vs-60Hz-vs-120Hz, these crossplay engines auto-handicap various variables in your account on a per-game basis (by the game developer that links server-side permanent memories/profiles per steam account) to try to level the playing field. The glass half full says it means it all is tolerably playable, and the glass half empty says it's patently unfair. Take your pick.

I have more than 30 years of computer programming experience. Do you have a few years of computer programming? If you do, then you understand how unfair it can sometimes be... You can subscribe to channels such as Battle(non)sense and other people that covers a tiny subset of this stuff -- it only scratches the surface.

But that's pretty much the gamut and universe you should steer towards, rather than electrical issues for this specific unique kind of well-known "one Steam account is faster than the other" issue that has never been definitively traced to electrical issues (except as how it pertains to how it slows down a poor DSL/cable connection and interferes with the A,B,C,D,E,F,G,etc variables of a playing-field leveling algorithm) -- because one of those variables, indeed probably benchmarks your network connection quality (ping, speed, jitter) at the exact time you create the account and start up your game.

That is because the game engine is trying to avoid "always dead in 2 seconds" mismatches such as connecting same-skilled dial-up 60Hz users to the same server as fiber-optic 360Hz users unless you're somehow incredibly skilled (let's say a superior variable "H" compensates for inferior variable "F"). Even just a minor performance blip (background software) might accidentally skew one of the varaibles upon a first-game-startup on a first-steam account -- maybe it does, maybe it does not.

But it has happened with at least certain versions of certain game software that misbenchmarks on first launch and doesn't fairly properly re-benchmark continuously if it is biasing more often to certain variables (in a flawed math computation of A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H,etc -- it's a math formula invented by a bunch of game developers, essentially). As just a mere itty-bitty part of its first math algorithmic computation of the game code -- on how that specific game decides to server-match you against thousands of different servers containing groupings of slightly-differently-intentional-lag-balancing and slightly-different-game-skills and slightly-different-computer-configurations etc, etc. But that's a per-game algorithm, not a Steam-wide algorithm, typically.

Sometimes these behaviors are intentional (e.g. Fortnite playing field leveling algorithms that try to math out A,B,C,D,E,F,G,etc to server-match you correctly), and sometimes these behaviors are unintentional (e.g. Steam/registry bloat and increased HTML5 rendering slowdowns because of more Steam widgets and Achievement Awards for one steam account). Or some other mundane issue like all of this. It's all crapshoot to track this black box cesspool down.

You can isolate a few variables easily (e.g. higher skill = you get more consistently connected to servers containing only high-skilled players) but some variables are so goddamn opaque. They keep all this trade secret so cheat developers can't trick these algorithms as easily. Often, you don't even know that the server is intentionally handicapping you by a few milliseconds of latency because it thinks your Internet connection is much faster than the other players on the same server, and then you wonder why it feels laggy (a flawed anti-LPB playing-field-leveling algorithm)...because it was the fallback server because it couldn't find you the low-lag server (i.e. it was full) of other low-lag players. So you might have cascaded to a server of higher-lag players, and ended up getting a lag-handicap assigned to your account and skill level for a specific game -- usually higher skills will often get slightly higher latency in a lopsided server match algorithm.

There are literally thousands or tens of thousands of game servers for many games. Sometimes you can force yourself into a different server-auto-connect grouping if you VPN to another part of the world or another Internet backbone (Where there are bigger numbers of low-lag players connected to a low-lag server) and you might find a specific game's "intentional lag handicap in order to match other players" suddenly disappears when you use a gaming-quality VPN. Because now your lag is identical to everyone else playing on the same server. You might add a few ms of VPN lag but you save a lot more lag because the lag difference between you and other players now disappears, and now it plays more correctly (no weird hitreg effects). But that only happens with some routings, and not for all. So your mileage will vary (YMMV) when you try to play the VPN roulette wheel (do try at least 3 VPN providers, minimum).

And it's not a fix-all for all situations -- this won't help if it's things like account-bloat related (e.g. old account with lots of bling, hundreds of games, lots of history, lots of friends, lots of Steam widgets & lots of Steam achievements, and the game has inefficient achievements-doublechecking source code, or simply background CPU spiking of Steam UI updating at a higher CPU% than the other account. Or other mundane things) or local-game-settings related, instead of other algorithms. Steam bloat differences between two accounts creating accidental latency. So problems may not always be server-matching-algorithm related.

Server-matching algorithm quirks is one of the apparent reasons why I've seen some LTE players get lower lag than some FTTH users. It's crazy and nuts. What the mainstream sites tell you about playing-field-leveling algorithms for server-matching your account, multiply the behind-the-scenes complexity by 1000x, and you remotely get into the ballpark of faintly understanding what is going on, if you don't have 30 years of programming experience like me.

Other times, there are no performance differences between two Steam accounts for a specific game. Or it only affects 1 game you never play. In that case, you got lucky, or you chose a game that doesn't create performance differences (intentionally such as an algorithm, or unintentionally such as bloat in one account).

Troubleshooting this bleep is hard. This ends my unceremonious mic-drop.

Back to more cheerful things, hey, at least one of your steam accounts performs well in that game.

Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter
To support Blur Busters - see Multiple Lists of Best Gaming Monitors

Forum Rules wrote:

Edited July 29, 2022 by magicfluteb

[Defos04 9]

Happens in cycles. I play Air Sim battles, one day you pop everyone as your hits register where you want - next day you are right at the rear of planes and bullets litteraly pass through. Lasts for days sometimes, usually better when you dont play for a while.

I only play sim now so battles go on for 3 hours way less servers than RB or AB. 900mb connection, swapped to different cable/fibre providers, alsorts of different equiptment over the years (since the game came out). It can persist for days though. So taking a break and returning after a patch when everything resets is the best option.

I probably still have posts about this that are years old - This problem - its still here and recognisable. Not sure what it is or what is responsible but I quit the game several times because of it. 

 

Some people say its leading and server lag etc etc. Sitting behind a plane on a steady course while slowly creeping up on your unsuspecting victim then watching bullets pass right through while you fit into manic laughter makes me question that logic ... others advise taking less meds and get a good nights sleep. Too late ...

 

I Keep coming back ... 

[VT_88 342]

On 11/06/2022 at 14:58, cashmeowsidehbd said:

hit registration? Since when?

 

True. There is no problem hitting in Arcade Air battles.

 

Just get good.

[HochgeborenKlown 1,276]

On 23/03/2023 at 18:52, VT_88 said:

 

True. There is no problem hitting in Arcade Air battles.

 

Just get good.

It's not hit detection, I can't even get credit for a kill...

[magicfluteb 1]

On 23/03/2023 at 19:52, VT_88 said:

 

True. There is no problem hitting in Arcade Air battles.

 

Just get good.

  ???  Maybe ,,, but, I think that I am good.  It's all part of the "lag compensation" that just about every different game uses, otherwise how would they adjust for all of the different players and their different ping, good/bad network connection,  computer setup, system lag, etc. - like handicapping in golf.  I can understand trying to make sure that the game is fair and that everyone is on an equal footing, but sometimes it is poorly implemented:  low ping players get lag added and high ping players get none.  The result is inconsistency from game to game.  Now, if you think this is far-fetched, think of the handicap that joystick users labor under.  From what I've read on posts by old-time players, this wasn't always the case.  It came about by Gaijin addressing the complaints of mouse-users saying that the joystick had an unfair advantage.  Now, I wouldn't bet my life that this is so, but think about it ... you can't tell me that it's beyond Gaijin's capabilities to fix the joystick model.  You have to be a masochist to play with a joystick (I know, I tried playing using a joystick for a few years), and I think that it is unfair that playing with a joystick is nothing but a frustrating, unrewarding experience.   

[_Tumbleweed_ 5]

I think I have it figured out

 

Any player less than 25

 

Offense                                                    Defense

Their hit detection box               To hit them this is your hit detection

On your plane                            box on their plane

_________________   

|                                 |           

|                                 |                                 ✴️

|                                 |

|                                 |

-----------------------------

 

Not sure why but you can always tell when a low level player kills you, your plane is cut in half, no damage needed, it is instant.

It's not skill as those claiming "get good", no disrespect, it's random, one game you can get 10-12 kills and the next you struggle to get 2 or 3 because you have to reload two or three times to kill a plane. 

 

My connection is very strong as is my pc, it's not the hardware, every player I fly with has the same results.

[magicfluteb 1]

  That's correct ... it's not your PC.  I have a very good PC:  very high end GPU, CPU, etc. but that is not the entire answer.  You can spend fruitless months/years tweaking your system, spending money in search of that one piece of equipment that will magically make the difference and transform the situation, reading forums about different settings to try, etc., ... but, alas, that never solves the problem for long.  There is really nothing that you can do because, again, it's poor implementation of field-leveling algorithms by Gaijin and others in their effort to make everyone equal.  So, what they do, if you have a good system and spent tons of money, is "dumb-down" your PC so that it matches everyone else's ... except the reality is that, the majority of times, you wind-up a pinata for low-level players.  

Edited May 15, 2023 by magicfluteb
Clarification