ZDF89 (P)

[OddPhenomena 1,015]

ZDF89 (P)

 

 

Introduction

Hello! This is the suggestion post for a very obscure little vehicle, which was the prototype for the ZDF89 ATGM Carrier. There's no official name I could find for this, as most Chinese sources list it as an HJ-8 ATGM Carrier, but I've also seen ZDF-1, ZDF89 prototype, and so on. For simplicity's sake, we'll call it the ZDF89 (P). With that being said, why should this vehicle be added? Why not just have the production model ZDF89? My reasoning is that the Type 63 APC has less armor than the Type 89 APC, but is much smaller as well. Since the prototype was first built and only used in the 1980s, it could possibly receive some of the first versions of the HJ-8 ATGM, whereas the production ZDF89 could feature more powerful developments of the HJ-8, such as the HJ-8E. Before I go into its history, I would like to apologize as this is a very obscure vehicle and I couldn't find a lot of information on it, even in Chinese. Due to this, my information and sources are not the greatest or most reliable. That being said, I will try to portray as accurate an image of this vehicle's history as I can, and as always, if you have anything about this vehicle to add, feel free to let me know!

 

History

Spoiler

Type 63 APCs being produced with an armored shield turret for the gunner and their 12.7mm machine gun.

 

By 1958, APCs were becoming a big deal for major militaries. The Americans had the M75 and later M59, the Soviets had their BTR-50, and the Germans had pioneered the concept in World War II with the Sd.Kfz 251. The People's Republic of China, still recovering from the Korean War and now dealing with the start of the Great Leap Forward, wanted their own APC. As such, in July of 1958, the central government's strategic plan called for an APC that could be ready by 1960, two years. Beijing Yongding Machinery Factory, today known as China North Vehicle Corporation, was responsible for the APC's manufacturing and design. At the beginning of August 1958, design of the vehicle and its components began, and it was given the design code '5872'. The first trial vehicle was finished on March 18, 1959, with its factory code being renamed to YW531. The vehicle would go through water testing, and go through numerous changes before it was approved for production in March of 1963 as the Type 63 Tracked Armored Transport Vehicle. While the vehicle had its teething issues, by the time one was captured by the Australians in Vietnam, an Australian report described it as a "mechanically simple and robustly built vehicle that was overall fairly reliable." ^[1]

 

A Chinese soldier setting up an HJ-73.

 

With the vehicle now in production, and China now with its very own APC, the first units would start being delivered in 1964. However, widespread service was not seen until at least 1970, due to Chinese factories adjusting production capacity and speed. The highest annual output of Type 63s was 703 in 1985. Since it entered service, it also was used for a number of roles. Some of these are slightly more known, like the Type 70 MLRS or Type 70-I Self-Propelled Howitzer, but as the 70s came by, China expanded its weapons technology further, notably in the field of anti-tank guided missiles. China in the 1970s mostly relied on the HJ-73 anti-tank missile. This was a copy of the Soviet 9M14, and wasn't a bad missile for its time. It could knock out most tanks the Chinese expected to fight, and it was a huge improvement for the PLA, who relied on rocket launchers and recoilless rifles for some time. But even then, a new design was clearly needed, especially with foreign missiles such as the TOW, HOT, and 9M113 able to outrange and outperform the older HJ-73 design.

 

A Chinese soldier aiming an HJ-8 ATGM.

 

Development of a new ATGM had actually begun back in 1970, but due to a lot of political turmoil, development was very slow. Research Institute 203 and 282nd Factory worked on it, specifically, key designers Wang Xingzhi and Zhao Jiazheng. This would be called the Hongjian-8, or Red Arrow 8, HJ-8 for short. In late 1984, it was approved for mass production, and the new ATGM was put on a number of vehicles even before it reached mass production, but initially, these were just jeeps and other types of wheeled vehicles.

 

A BJ212 Jeep fitted with an HJ-8 ATGM mount.

 

There was a group of people within the PLA, however, who thought that a wheeled design had severe limitations. As such, they supported a tracked vehicle which would have decent protection and strong off-road maneuverability, being an overall ideal weapon platform for anti-tank missiles. After this idea was approved, a Northern Chinese institute soon developed a single-tube launch vehicle prototype in December 1982 on the basis of the Type 63 APC. The prototype vehicle went through long-distance driving tests and multiple missile launch tests, proving that it was feasible for the HJ-8 to be mounted on an armored vehicle. In order to further improve the performance of the vehicle, in March 1984, the institute decided to change the original single-tube launcher to a quadruple-mounted one, and developed a prototype of such a vehicle in November 1985. The prototype vehicle went through thorough examination and testing, which proved that the idea was still feasible.

 

The ZDF89 prototype, featuring the quadruple-tubed launcher.

 

In May 1986, the General Staff of the People's Liberation Army and the Commission for Science, Technology and Industry for National Defense held a meeting on the vehicle, specifically for it to be one of the pieces of equipment to be reviewed for the 40th anniversary of the PRC. At the same time, the meeting also had the members agree that a new chassis should be used, this was chosen to be the new Type 89 APC. This decision ended the design using the Type 63 for good, but is not the end of the ZDF89's story. If you'd like to continue the story of the ZDF89, I've made a post found here for it. As for the original prototype, it seems to have had its launcher taken off and is now displayed in Beijing, next to the China North Vehicle Research Institute.

 

The final design of the ZDF89, with a new chassis and loading system.

Specifications

Spoiler

• Crew: 3 (?)
• Mass: 13 t
• Length: 5.4 m
• Width: 2.9 m
• Height: 3.1 m (Roughly calculated by taking the height of the ZDF89 chassis away from the total height of the vehicle, then adding the sum to the height of the Type 63 APC)
• Main armament: 4x HJ-8 'Red Arrow' ATGMs, unknown number carried in vehicle
• Engine: Norinco 8-cylinder air-cooled, turbo-charged diesel Type 6150L 260 hp diesel
• Maximum speed: 60 km/h on land, 6 km/h on water

Sources

Spoiler

• http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product4192.html (Mentions the Type 63 in the 3rd paragraph, and how later a four-tubed launcher was used)
• http://mil.news.sina.com.cn/p/2005-12-05/0713335491.html (The first page is about the ZDF89's development, the second shows a picture of the prototype, using the Type 63 chassis)
• https://baike.sogou.com/v6024038.htm?ch=ch.bk.innerlink (Yet another mention of using the Type 63 chassis)
• https://www.bilibili.com/read/cv3786624/ (Source for some pictures below, including a plaque shown below this source)
   

 

The plaque essentially talks about the vehicle, that it was a domestic anti-tank missile launcher vehicle used from 1982 to 1986 on the basis of the Type 63 APC. It also lists some statistics about the vehicle, which I've included above in specifications.

Pictures

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

Conclusion

That is all for the ZDF89 (P)! I really hope you enjoyed, this suggestion post involved a couple days' worth of research, but I feel it was worth it. Please let me know your thoughts on this vehicle, and if you would like to see it. Thank you for reading! 

Edited March 12, 2023 by OddPhenomena
Cleaned up and formatted the post a bit more, removing some unnecessary information.

[kleinerPanzer 648]

Open for discussion. 

[Milocat 4,857]

+1 for sure, I would love to see this.

[DoneDirtCheap 370]

+1

[MichaeL98 102]

+1, Interesting find!

From the pictures, the laucher seems to be fixed, does this mean that it has to be reloaded one-by-one manually? 4 missiles in a row do have a serious punch tho, or maybe Gaijin could make the missiles reload seperately, so players can continue shooting as soon as 1 tube is loaded on the laucher XD

[gultraman 24]

+1

Since there is suggestion to rename the existing ZSD63 SPAA to ZSD63 (PG-87), another alternative naming may be ZSD63 (HJ-8)

Another thing is that ZDF-1 / ZDF-98 seem to be old naming. According to leaked PLA naming standard document below, it should be name ZPT89 :

 

[OddPhenomena 1,015]

On 17/04/2022 at 05:36, MichaeL98 said:

+1, Interesting find!

From the pictures, the laucher seems to be fixed, does this mean that it has to be reloaded one-by-one manually? 4 missiles in a row do have a serious punch tho, or maybe Gaijin could make the missiles reload seperately, so players can continue shooting as soon as 1 tube is loaded on the laucher XD

I'm thinking that might be the case, the hull doesn't seem large enough to have the sort of loading system similar to what you see on the FlaRakPz. where the tubes are expended and the launcher carries ammunition up from the hull. This is possible on the ZDF89 as far as I know, but not sure about this one. It might actually be a pretty decent advantage like you said though!

 

On 17/04/2022 at 05:55, gultraman said:

+1

Since there is suggestion to rename the existing ZSD63 SPAA to ZSD63 (PG-87), another alternative naming may be ZSD63 (HJ-8)

Another thing is that ZDF-1 / ZDF-98 seem to be old naming. According to leaked PLA naming standard document below, it should be name ZPT89 :

Thank you for the information! I'll consider renaming it, and I actually almost submitted this post with the name Type 63 HJ-8 Anti-Tank or something to that effect, but thought ZDF89 (P) might be more simple and fit with War Thunder's naming system better.

[tiger7742 260]

+1 for any variant of the type 63 APC

[DMYEugen 688]

+1 Also here's a picture of it firing.

Spoiler

 

[FRANK_VBM 1]

+1

[Borotovas 4,500]

+1

[hienapunk 1,065]

I'll never vote against a type 63. Still I'd rather have the single atgm version to differentiate it from the zdf89 to make sure they don't end up at the same br