Improvements to existing French Helicopter Tree trough loadout modifications

[Insanerobert 307]

Hello.

 

This is a thread regarding the already existing helicopters in the French Tech Tree, so I won't be refering to any new vehicles, but rather to the existing ones by adding/modifying their loadouts and models to make them more playable and versatile in game, since their armament tend to fall behind their counterparts compared to the other major countries.

The vehicles targeted in this thread are: H-34 (France), S.A.316B Alouette III and S.A.342M Gazelle since they're some of the least popular played helicopters in game and very rarely met and used by players.

 

This is meant to encourage players to get into the French line-up of helicopters by giving them more alternatives from other nations and make the grind process trough the tech tree easier, since right now it feels brutal due to limited armament. Other vehicles in other nations suffer from the same limited loadout options/combinations, but I won't include them in here since they deserve separate threads in their own sections.

Also, if I switch between SS.11 and AS.11 designations, please make note they are the same missile, just the launching platform may make a difference in their total range and performance in flight.

 

So, back to our list:

 

1. H-34 (France)

 

In game, the French H-34 has a loadout consisting of 4x 7.62mm Browning MGs, 2 x AS.11 ATGMs and 6 HVAR rockets, or the alternative of 10x 50kg bombs followed by the same 7.62s.

Although this loadout can be used by players, we have several other alternatives that are not present in the game and were explored and tested by the French army, or even used in the Algerian War.

 

The "Pirate" helicopter (field tested and used in Algerian War as a "gunship" concept, as referenced above) is a French H-34 having a total of 12x Bazooka missile launchers grouped toghether in the main pylons with 3 rockets per launcher - designated LRAC - plus an additional 4xbazooka launcher and a SNEB launcher plus several more MGs and a 20mm MG151 autocannon mounted in a side door turret, all in one configuration:

 

 

These loadout options were already proposed on the forum, but we're still missing them in the game.

This proposal is not new, it can be found under the following post by Arghail :

The post appears as implemented, which is half true: we have the French version of H-34, but not the loadout of the "Pirate" tested version present in the Algerian War and it will be nice to have it as an alternative, especially for Historical enthusiasts present in our community.

 

The "Pirate" loadout is not the only option, though.

There is also evidence of 4x SS.11 missiles as a potential loadout for the helicopter in one configuration instead of the 2x SS.11 and 6xHVAR rockets we already have in-game:

 

This loadout was also mentioned before on forums and Reddit, but was never pushed in suggestions as far as I know, never mentioned as "Considered" or "Rejected" or on the list of proposals.

 It can be found on SCRIBD by page 120 and 121 in the COMHART T10 Armements Antichars Missiles Guides Et Non Guides France 2008:

https://www.scribd.com/doc/225358343/38606186-COMHART-T10-Armements-Antichars-Missiles-Guides-Et-Non-Guides-France-2008

 

This is a document which shows all the trials and experiments, as well as serial implementation of SS-11 missiles and other guided/unguided missiles produced in France. H-34 is not present in the vehicle list of adoption (by the military) of this missile system, but it was however used as a test bed for this loadout.

With the introduction of smaller and more agile S.A.313 and S.A.316B, it's possible the French Army was not interested anymore to use the aging, bulky platform of H-34 for this loadout and prioritized the former helicopters for the antitank role instead - but for War Thunder, it would help H-34 to get more popular between players. Mi-4, it's Russian counterpart, has access to more ammunition (with 4 x Falanga ATGMs and 96 SK5 rockets) than H-34 and it still struggles to dominate on the battles because it's big, bulky and lacks proper MG/autocannon firepower to defend with ease against jets and other enemies present in game.

 

2. S.A.316B Alouette III

 

Right now, the S.A.316B feels more like a downgrade towards S.A.313 since it has a larger profile, gets the same missiles but lacks any light attack power since it has no machine gun or cannon onboard. This can be a problem, however, since the helicopter is defenseless against air attacks and lacks a "small" gun to use against soft ground targets, like most helicopter counterparts have access to.

 

I will start with the first suggestion and, like on H-34 series, it is a request for an already suggested topic by Arghail that is in "Considered" state, the S.A.3164 Alouette-Cannon:

Although this can be considered as a separate helicopter, my suggestion is to have it instead as a module addition for the already existing S.A.316 Alouette III in-game, in the same manner on how it was also tested, as can be seen in the post below:

https://sites.google.com/site/stingrayslistofrotorcraft/sa-3164-alouette-canon

 

 

The French Army didn't favor this setup for use since it made the Alouette III heavier and more sluggish in-flight and they compensated by additional helicopters in flight formations with different set-ups and different combat loadouts. For a solo pilot in WT though, the extra firepower can be useful to defend against air targets and engage low-armored ground targets when the 4 missiles are depleted on heavy-armored targets. Also, the players may have the capability to dismount the 20mm MG151 cannon if they want a more nimble platform in anti-tank role, but having this choice would be nice.

 

There's also other alternatives for Alouette III to equip a 20mm cannon (posted in forums by Nicolaser ), mentioned in several sources including the following:
http://avions-de-la-guerre-d-algerie.over-blog.com/article-150-sncase-alouette-iii-121157483.html
https://weaponsandwarfare.com/2015/11/02/aerospatiale-alouette-iii-sa-316-319/

 

The first one is with the 20mm (which could be the same MG151 - the French really loved this cannon after 1945) mounted in fixed position, on the left side of the fuselage as following:

There's also a possibility to fix the cannon in rear-looking position (and mentioned in the screenshot as reference to no.44), but I find it to be less useful. Can be seen though in the link shared by Nicolaser above.

The fixed-mounting position is also referenced in other various sources, like the one below:

https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.php?aircraft_id=348

 

Another alternative for the 20mm MG151 is to be used as a door gunner in a pintle-mount configuration, as was used on K-CAR variants that flew in "Fire Force" forrmation, as can be seen below:

The setup was only for starboard door side with 1 x 20mm and it's estimated to have 450-480 rounds available for the mission (to be confirmed).

Another alternative for the Alouette III is either the single 7.62mm M1919 Browning / 7.62MAG set-up on each side in the G-Car version or a twin  machine gun set-up per side as can be seen below:

 

Source of this screenshot: https://laststandonzombieisland.com/2020/09/01/g-car/

 

Source of the image: https://rhodesianforces.org/No7SqnGallery.htm

 

Twin Browning and MAC version of gunners:

 

And the Twin MAC set-up:

Source: http://avions-de-la-guerre-d-algerie.over-blog.com/article-150-sncase-alouette-iii-121157483.html

 

I don't have a proper source, but I believe that 1.000 rounds for the 7.62 guns on pintle mount will be feasible.

 

Both variants are described in several sources, like this book which goes in detail of their use in the Rhodesian War: https://books.google.ro/books?id=_4yuCAAAQBAJ&pg=PA38&lpg=PA38&dq=Alouette+III+avec+20mm+cannon&source=bl&ots=cTn85qqJY0&sig=ACfU3U24IItLGbOannwpl90TVQCJ8yzwJg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjjv8aPop73AhX-RPEDHUK3AX4Q6AF6BAgaEAM#v=onepage&q&f=false

Another good source to estimate their use is the "Rhodesian Air Force Operations" book describing the G-CAR and K-CAR formations plus the weapons effectiveness: https://books.google.ro/books?id=yu3uBwAAQBAJ&pg=PA137&lpg=PA137&dq=Alouette+III+G-Car+specifications&source=bl&ots=NN0Ak9tVzA&sig=ACfU3U0KE5MgRJdvUXKWRn_DDTc74lkoaA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjMi7jLr573AhVdR_EDHZl0DQg4ChDoAXoECBQQAw#v=onepage&q=Alouette III G-Car specifications&f=false

 

There are reports of 500-750 bullets spent from MAC and Browning guns in a sortie in the book above, so 1.000 guns / helicopter would not be far-fetched.

 

Now, going back at S.A.316 Alouette III, I believe that having the gunners + SS.11s in a single configuration will not be farfetched. The airframe supports a transport loadout of 750kg, it was already tested in 20mm + 4xSS.11 loadout (even if it was not favored by the French due to performance loss and went with the Fire Formation strategy) and can be viable for players, even if we lose 2 of the AS.11s in a loadout.

 

We also have the possibility to replace the 4 x AS.11 missiles with 2 x AS.12 missiles, which were used by the French Army and are properly detailed in the "COMHART T10 Armements Antichars Missiles Guides Et Non Guides France 2008" manual https://www.scribd.com/doc/225358343/38606186-COMHART-T10-Armements-Antichars-Missiles-Guides-Et-Non-Guides-France-2008. These missiles have similar flight performance to AS.11, with the exception of having bigger penetration up to 1m and will fly up to 6.000m in range but they're also heavier, this is why they can be only equipped as 2 per helicopter:

Sketch from the "COMHART T10 Armements" manual with AS.12.

Image with the 2x SA.12 misisles on the helicopter:

All the sources refering to Alouette III variants will mention both AS.11 and AS.12 as options for the antitank use. Although the range is almost double and some people may consider it OP for 9.0, the aiming system remains the same and the speed of the missile will make it hard to use in longer ranges above 4km distance. But I understand why people may not like this missile, since it can be fired outside of the AA's effective range that are using autocannons.

 

3. S.A. 341F & 342M Gazelle

 

The last, but not least helicopter in my list is the Gazelle. I will treat the 2 models it in the same section since both were pretty similar, with the major difference being the engine. S.A.342 received the Astazou XIV engine (which was intended to be slightly stronger and resist to hotter conditions and in higher altitude missions) instead of the Astazou IIIC found on 341F series (which tended to overheat in hot summers).

Another notable difference though is the access to Anti-Air Matra missiles, most of my sources mention that ONLY 342M modified with "Sextant T2000 sight" were capable of carying 4x Matra missiles, so the F series should never receive it (as long as it gets lowered in BR as well to reflect this loss).

 

Focusing on the F series, there are also plenty of information regarding it's capability to be upgraded to carry up to 4x HOT missiles for the mission.

There's also a picture with one in the French museum (where you can see the HOT launchers instead of the 20mm cannon):

 

Photo source: https://www.aviationmuseum.eu/Blogvorm/musee-lalat-helicoptere/aerospatiale-sa341f-gazelle-3904-awa-alat-french-army/

 

I also found this mention about the repeated "6x HOT" missiles loadout but I never managed to find a picture, which states: "40 were converted to anti-armor gunships with an SFIM optical sight above the cockpit and four Euromissile HOT anti-tank missiles on pylons, with this subvariant designated "SA 341M". The SA 341M could have carried six HOTs, but that would have meant reduced fuel load, and the French Army preferred more fuel to more missiles. "

Personally, I think the S.A.342 should be allowed to carry 6x HOT missiles to allow it having more firepower (since it also has an upgraded engine) and it was still viable as an option for export variants. In War Thunder, the fuel quantity could not be as big of an issue as it was for French military operations and when equipping the 6x HOT missiles, there should be reflected in the fuel limit the helicopter could carry.

 

Besides this, most of the sources mention that Gazelles were fitted mostly with 8x 68mm SNEB rockets (mentioned by  TerikG2014 in his post for Gazelle AH.1 for British tech tree) or a 12x 68mm SNEB pod:

 

French version of 12x 68mm SNEB rocket pod:

 

TELEDINE export pod of 12x 68mm rockets:

Also, there is a mention of a 22x 68mm rocket pod available for Gazelle as well (possibly as a buying option for export variant) on a DCS forum: https://forum.dcs.world/topic/209606-rocket-types-on-the-gazelle/

Image from the post below:

 

It is also followed by a brochure for the rocket pod which seems to be the same one found on UH-1D for Germany in game:

 

Personally, I would reserve the 22x 68mm TDA pod for SA342M since it's more modern and to make it more viable in gameplay.

Also, there is no reason why SA.342 model couldn't equip the 20mm autocannon. It is true that 342M was a conversion for Anti-Armor warfare while the L series was more versatile and a military conversion of 342J civilian helicopter. If needed, I will prefer for Gaijin to drop the "M" designation for S.A.342 in-game and let the players decide what loadout to choose for the helicopter, since for the Army the M designation meant the 4x HOT ATGM variant.

There's also plenty of mentions for 7.62mm forward-firing machine guns which can be fitted as optional on these helicopters, either via the cockpit or on the rails but I did not manage to find any picture with them nor a clear designation of what MG was viable for this "Optional" use, but every source seems to mention them either in 1 gun or 2 being equipped as a package.

 

I did, however, managed to find evidence for a 7.62mm M134 minigun mounted on a pintle mount and manned by a gunner which could be equipped on one side for light armored targets:

Photo source: http://www.forcesoperations.com/en-attendant-le-guepard/

 

 

Photo source:https://www.flickr.com/photos/abour/41767561930

 

 

Other S.A.341 & 342 Gazelle sources:
https://militaryanalizer.com/sa-341-gazelle/

https://milinme.wordpress.com/2010/07/08/the-lebanese-gazelle-rebirth/

https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.php?aircraft_id=93

https://avgeekery.com/there-are-no-old-and-bold-pilots-but-there-are-plenty-of-old-bold-gazelle-helicopters/

https://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/aerospatiale-gazelle/

https://airrecognition.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=602

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aérospatiale_Gazelle

http://www.airvectors.net/avgazel.html

https://forum.dcs.world/topic/209606-rocket-types-on-the-gazelle/

https://en.topwar.ru/161064-polet-gazeli.html

https://www.stronghold-nation.com/history/ref/french-sa342-gazelle-helicopter

https://all-andorra.com/sa-341-f-f-mbde-gazelle-alat-made-by-sud-aviation-in-1975/

 

This is all for my proposal and I thank all the other players on the past forums which helped me identify the points I made in my Suggestion. If I missed something or you have additional information, please feel free to update it in this post.

 

 

Edited April 21, 2022 by yoyolast
Eliminated some doubled content

[yoyolast 1,710]

Hello and thank you for submitting your suggestion. Unfortunately your suggestion did not comply with the suggestion submission rules since you did not include a "no" option for poll question #3. As stated in our rules:

Please Do  NOT :

 

- Create polls that don't include a "Negative" or "No" answer

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I have edited the poll in your suggestion to comply with the rules. Open for discussion. 

[LeGrandSarrazin 753]

Very nice, I LOOOOOOVVVEEE those loadouts, and they're a disgrace we still don't have them! The Corsaire/Mammouth/Pirate holds a special place in my heart, and I truly hope she gets her proper treatment one day. Until then, let me bombard you with Corsaire/Mammouth/Pirate pics:

 

These are from 'L'Armée de l'Air en Afrique du Nord, Tome 2':

Spoiler

Corsaire 1 & 2:

 

 

Mammouth 1:

 

 

Mammouth 2:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pirate:

 

 

And here's just a bunch of nice random photos:

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Special 20mm MG151 turret tested on H-34:

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Some nice missing skins:

Spoiler

 

 

Thx @Abaddon75 for a bunch of these photos

[Arakneo 856]

Awesome suggestion Hudge +1 for me

[Abaddon75 460]

On 21/04/2022 at 15:13, LeGrandSarrazin said:

Very nice, I LOOOOOOVVVEEE those loadouts, and they're a disgrace we still don't have them! The Corsaire/Mammouth/Pirate holds a special place in my heart, and I truly hope she gets her proper treatment one day. Until then, let me bombard you with Corsaire/Mammouth/Pirate pics:

 

These are from 'L'Armée de l'Air en Afrique du Nord, Tome 2':

Reveal hidden contents

Corsaire 1 & 2:

 

 

Mammouth 1:

 

 

Mammouth 2:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pirate:

 

 

And here's just a bunch of nice random photos:

Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Special 20mm MG151 turret tested on H-34:

Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

Some nice missing skins:

Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Thx @Abaddon75 for a bunch of these photos

Thanks

I must add that the shielded quad rocket launcher bazooka style are on a pintel, so it could turn on itself and be reloaded by the crew through the side door

< same systeme but fitted upside down ^

The weird caged side turret is sadly quite obscure on what was the angles of fire and rotation speed.


I'll try to find the time to add more, there is the Alouette 2 and the Alouete III that lack some options too. And I remember seeing some other stuff about the H-34 on internet or here on the forum, but I need a little bit of time to find it back

But for now I'll just say my opinion on Alouettes 3 with 20mm guns on door pintel or in the nose, should be vehicle on their own (especially the last one).

EDIT :

First of all there is this article when helis just droped on WT there is a good number of info and pics :

About H-34, I can't find the info back where the 4 SS.11 arn't aimed at 45° but it's a minor thing

The Alouette III has a bunch of options missing, tho I would separate the foreign ones and as I said previously the ones with 20mm guns and suggest them separatly.
https://www.alat.fr/se3160-alouette-iii.html
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_sXAWCwPrrmcMIvMDIH71LY6FsR2UWBy/view
 

Spoiler

Since you already listed the SS.12, here are some more pictures to proof that it was in use on french SA.316 since Alouettes III are used by the french navy (it was also used by Argentina so this way it's clear). (Cedjoe)

Easy buff, the 6 x SS.11 (LeGrandSarrazin & Cedjoe) :



2 x MG 151 20mm (Cedjoe)


2 x 36 SNEB of 37mm + 2 x 7.5mm for a nice early rush (Cedjoe)


there is also a mention of HOT being tested on Alouette, however we only found it on one source and couldn't find any picture of the said test, also there is quite a bunch of other platform that used those missile so it won't be missing out.

and there is this rocket option but it's gonna be painful to use (6 bazookas), also I can't tell if it's a french experimentation or one used by an other country

Alouette III Canon (nose mounted MG 151 20mm)

Spoiler

https://www.alat.fr/sa3164-alouette-iii-canon.html

they specify here that it could still use the SS.12 too.

Alouette III Canon "bis" (side mounted MG 151 20mm)

Spoiler

That one is the better option for the 20 mm mounted on the Door as seen here page 12 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_sXAWCwPrrmcMIvMDIH71LY6FsR2UWBy/view there is space for a lmg (probably a 7.5mm) on the other side, plus the pintel being on the side it gives the possibility to shoot forward and almost backward a bit like the Ka50 serie



^ that position is probably too extreme for the gunner to aim and fire the gun ^

The pintel should not get in the way of other kind of loadout like ATGM, rockets or other gun pods, however I never saw any other loadout used on that prototype, but I might be wrong.

For Alouette II it's a bit more complexe, we all know that french tree have the german version C&P, but now Sweden got the french version we should ask for the correct model without the 4 x mg3 (that could be moved in prem/event/gift line). However there is in fact 2 versions of the Alouette II : the 3130 and the 318
https://www.alat.fr/preacutesentation-se3130-alouette-ii.html
https://www.alat.fr/sa318-c-alouette-ii.html

The main difference is the engine of the 318 being more powerful than the 3130

a nice article from where I took some pictures from @UrbiOrbi

 

here are more pictures of SA 3130 and 318 (I can't tell the differences between the model, probably only the register number and the engine could tell us, so I won't be able to specified what model it is)
 

Spoiler

SA 3130 with 6 SS.10 (equivalent to the missile used on the reserve Huey from Swedish tree) (Cedjoe)


4 x SS.11 (UrbiOrbi article)


here in daily training

and also 2xSS11 if Gaijin want us to suffer

 

rocket pods (2x36 of 37mm MATRA type 367 or SNEB depending of the source) (first one from UrbiOrbi article)


SAMM 410 gun pod (4x7.5mm AA-52) (UrbiOrbi article)


18x37mm SNEB rockets (Cedjoe)

The Gazelles could also have some more options :
https://www.alat.fr/preacutesentation-sa342-m-gazelle.html

Spoiler

a retractable minigun belly turret :

Modernisation pack proposed to EAU but made by a french company : AEROTEC, that's the one you already posted about rocket pods :
8 x light atgm + Flare/Chaff + new optics and option for 30mm gun pod I think

Spoiler

However it would probably end up as a new vehicle instead of just a modification..

https://milinme.wordpress.com/2010/07/08/the-lebanese-gazelle-rebirth/

Thanks to @Cedjoe  and @LeGrandSarrazin for most of the pics too.

 

@Insanerobert maybe you can add some of them on your OP

Edited February 13, 2023 by Abaddon75

[Insanerobert 307]

7 hours ago, yoyolast said:

Hello and thank you for submitting your suggestion. Unfortunately your suggestion did not comply with the suggestion submission rules since you did not include a "no" option for poll question #3. As stated in our rules:

Please Do  NOT :

 

- Create polls that don't include a "Negative" or "No" answer

While polls offer a good and simple way for individuals to quickly express their stance on a subject, without having to elaborate it in detail, there are ways to manipulate polls to always show a desired result. To avoid having an unfair voting system, make sure to  always  include a negative option to a question so that it's fair and unbiased. If this requirements isn't met, the thread author will be notified and the poll will be altered to provide a fair voting system.

 

I have edited the poll in your suggestion to comply with the rules. Open for discussion. 

Thank you very much for support. I omitted to add the last option to Question 3 since the post was finished late in the night, after a busy day at work.

The browser was also starting to freeze, so I was hasty to close it as soon as I documented all my finds in the post.

Thanks again and GLORY TO GAIJILLA, OUR SNAIL GOD!!!!!

[Arghail 1,220]

Well, I'm all for it. There's a variety of weapons and loadouts that would be really fun in game, without being too OP.

Thanks for quoting my posts btw, appreciate it.

[yoyolast 1,710]

1 hour ago, Insanerobert said:

Thank you very much for support. I omitted to add the last option to Question 3 since the post was finished late in the night, after a busy day at work.

The browser was also starting to freeze, so I was hasty to close it as soon as I documented all my finds in the post.

Thanks again and GLORY TO GAIJILLA, OUR SNAIL GOD!!!!!

Eh it's ok man, I made the same mistake once too about a year ago when I submitted a suggestion. Just try to make sure that you try your best to avoid this sort of stuff, it makes it difficult for us to aprove threads 

[Abaddon75 460]

1 hour ago, Insanerobert said:

Thank you very much for support. I omitted to add the last option to Question 3 since the post was finished late in the night, after a busy day at work.

The browser was also starting to freeze, so I was hasty to close it as soon as I documented all my finds in the post.

Thanks again and GLORY TO GAIJILLA, OUR SNAIL GOD!!!!!

Praise the Saint Snail and its Holy Letuce

Amen

I also edited my previous message with all the missing load out, it took me longer than I thought 'cause I was constantly interrupted by people arround X)

[Insanerobert 307]

9 hours ago, Abaddon75 said:

 

Hide contents

Easy buff, the 6 x SS.11 (LeGrandSarrazin & Cedjoe) :


 

There's a reason I avoided to ask for this loadout of 6x SS.11s, I found out some sources highlighting that the missiles were actually mock-ups used mainly for commercial photo sessions to convince other countries to buy the Alouette III model. You can even see the marking of "maquette lestee" on the missile, which means "weighted model".

I wanted to go for something that was at least trialed on the helicopter.

 

9 hours ago, Abaddon75 said:

2 x MG 151 20mm (Cedjoe)

 

These gun pods look amazing and really useful, too bad I could not find anything about them, I did however found evidence of the 20mm in the fixed position on the left of the fuselage, thanks again to highlight it with further photo evidence.

 

9 hours ago, Abaddon75 said:

Hide contents

Modernisation pack proposed to EAU but made by a french company : AEROTEC, that's the one you already posted about rocket pods :
8 x light atgm + Flare/Chaff + new optics and option for 30mm gun pod I think

Hide contents

However it would probably end up as a new vehicle instead of just a modification..

https://milinme.wordpress.com/2010/07/08/the-lebanese-gazelle-rebirth/

 

 

 

 

I found this mentioned as well, but I failed to gather more data on the missiles and I couldn't gather more information about the ATGMs performance - just that they were proposed for the export variant and that was it. I do agree with your statement - this setup would work better on a separate vehicle in my opinion - but I might be wrong as well, though. It all depends on the missile's perormance and other, additional capabilites.

 

Edited April 21, 2022 by Insanerobert

[Milocat 4,857]

+1 for these, I'm always up for more payload options.

[Abaddon75 460]

9 hours ago, Insanerobert said:

There's a reason I avoided to ask for this loadout of 6x SS.11s, I found out some sources highlighting that the missiles were actually mock-ups used mainly for commercial photo sessions to convince other countries to buy the Alouette III model. You can even see the marking of "maquette lestee" on the missile, which means "weighted model".

I wanted to go for something that was at least trialed on the helicopter.

 

 

These gun pods look amazing and really useful, too bad I could not find anything about them, I did however found evidence of the 20mm in the fixed position on the left of the fuselage, thanks again to highlight it with further photo evidence.

 

About the "Maquette Lestée" of SS.11, it only show it could be fitted and the engine could still lift the whole thing, so imo it shouldn't be discarded so quickly. All six has this marking btw, it could be a way to show the armament without risking the life of general staff around, or a miss-click that could have catastrophic results. Imho it still could count as an exported suggestion that never get adopted.

For the Guns I really think those are MG.151, they are everywhere in french military industry, and you see them fitted on french helicopters of that era as experiment more often than any other guns (20, 25, 30, or .50).
Here is some Argentinian Alouette III with similar mount and it's clearly an MG 151 (similar not identical) (photo found by Cedjoe)

I know it doesn't proove anything sadly, but that's more of an educated guess. And to be added it would need more research to find better quality picture and more, maybe some shematic to help 3D artist to do their job anyway.

I'll just share more pictures of the Argentinians service SA 316 (maybe some are from other country tho) (thx to Cedjoe):
 

Spoiler

here they mention LAU32A rocket pods (7x70mm rockets) + a 20mm canon

gun pods twin 7.5mm

SS.12 in action



SS.11 on display


an other weird experiment, can't tell if it was Argentinian tho, Alouette III got exported to a lot of spanish speaking country

 

[FrizBeee 229]

On 20/04/2022 at 23:09, Insanerobert said:

I also found this mention about the repeated "6x HOT" missiles loadout but I never managed to find a picture

probably a "6x HOT" missiles loadout, found on reddit a while ago

[_Woe_ 661]

None of these are of much interest to me. Would be more concerned with the HAD getting the Hellfire II its supposed to have

[Abaddon75 460]

8 hours ago, r3count said:

None of these are of much interest to me. Would be more concerned with the HAD getting the Hellfire II its supposed to have

well the rest could still help none the less, also about Tigre HAD you could search for pics or document stating Hellfires 2 were installed (even if it was just during a military convention)

[DaScorpi0n 20]

On 04/05/2022 at 12:00, r3count said:

None of these are of much interest to me. Would be more concerned with the HAD getting the Hellfire II its supposed to have

 

Perhaps as an alternative to the HAD getting Hellfire II's, France could get the Tigre HAC with TRIGAT Missiles
 

 

[Abaddon75 460]

2 hours ago, DaScorpi0n said:

 

Perhaps as an alternative to the HAD getting Hellfire II's, France could get the Tigre HAC with TRIGAT Missiles
 

 

Why not both? it won't be an alternative since PARS/TRIGAT are fire and forget, and Hellfire 2s were apparently equipped on the HAD.

I didn't vote for replacement of rocket pods of the Gazelles, because I don't understand why we should replace some rocket pods by others when we could just add them.

[FrizBeee 229]

the nose mounted 20mm Mg151+4xAS11 / 6xAS11 are truly the most needed loadouts for the Alouette III, finaly making a real improvement over the Alouette II

[Woolfi23456789@psn 28]

 

On 16/05/2022 at 14:30, Abaddon75 said:

Why not both? it won't be an alternative since PARS/TRIGAT are fire and forget, and Hellfire 2s were apparently equipped on the HAD.

I didn't vote for replacement of rocket pods of the Gazelles, because I don't understand why we should replace some rocket pods by others when we could just add them.

I know this isn’t the right place for this but they used a AS 565 Panther as a test platform for the Pars 3 lr. 

[Abaddon75 460]

On 24/04/2023 at 23:32, Woolfi23456789@psn said:

 

I know this isn’t the right place for this but they used a AS 565 Panther as a test platform for the Pars 3 lr. 

Yes I'm aware of that beauty, also in french service it's named Trigat-LR and was both tested on this one and Tigre HAC, but so far we lack both of these ingame
 

NB : HAC would just need to reskin the UHT (and replace stingers by mistrals), and Dauphin/Panthère would be reskin Z-9s (chinese tree)