Hatsuharu class destroyers - Too much ambition and too little displacement

[de Radio Demon@live 266]

                        Hatsuharu class destroyers - Too much ambition and too little displacement

                                                              

 

Background

The Hatsuharu class destroyers were a class of 10 destroyers built by Imperial Japanese navy in the early 1930's, these ships were the first proper Japanese treaty destroyers as these ships were the first new design off destroyer procured by the Japanese following the London Naval treaty which placed more restriction on warships from the preceding Washington naval treaty though these ships were not the first Japanese destroyers to be built during the time of the treaty as the previous year to the first ships of this class being laid down the Akatsuki class was laid down which officially the Japanese classified as the last 4 Fubuki class destroyers, however they were the 3rd subclass which was improved version but in reality they were a improved enough design to be considered a separate class. 

                                                              

The Hatsuharu class itself can be said to be the one definitive attempt by Japan to build a destroyer to the treaty limits, but like their American counterparts they would find major challenges in doing so if not even greater challenges since compared to the first US treaty destroyers the Hatsuharu class was built to higher standards as the Farragut class destroyers were a completely new design which really didn't have to go far to be a successor of the world war 1 era Clemson class, as in comparison the Hatsuharu class was an attempt to get all the abilities of the 1,750 tons Fubuki class destroyer on a displacement of 1,500 tons standard displacement, this was due to the fact that while the last full size fleet destroyers were prohibited by the treaty itself as the Imperial Japanese Navy would be capped at 105,500 tons with a maximum tonnage per ship of 1,850 tons, however this 1,850 ton limit for the destroyers only allowed ships of up to this displacement to make up 16 percent of the total overall destroyer tonnage they were permitted to have  as the remainder would be allowed to be up of ships up to 1,500 tons, and the 3 classes which made up the Fubuki class had filled that displacement, of course the designers realized that this was literally impossible and that sacrifices had to be made no matter what, however it would turn out to still be too ambitious though to be fair they understood this but their was no real alternative, still the designers definitely tried to stick to the treaty limits and they did include many weight saving features which at least managed to get them almost to the desired displacement.

                                                              

The original design of the Hatsuharu class was unique to say the least, these ships were the only Japanese destroyers beyond post war designs the Hatsuharu class had the unique destination of have a forward super firing turret rather than a rear super firing turret, the only other Japanese destroyer beyond any post war design to include a forward super firing turret would be the Akizuki class destroyer, the this armament was slightly downgraded as the ship retained 2 of the 5 inch twin mounts with the third turret being changed to a single mount version, the designers did try to keep the full torpedo armament in a truly unusual method as the first 2 ships had 3 triple mounts with 2 being retained in the same positions as the Fubuki class but they had to shorten the hull as one of the methods at reducing displacement so the 3rd triple mount was mounted right behind the 2nd mount above it so making it a super firing torpedo turret of all things, the ships also had a small AA armament of 2 40 mm/62 "HI" Type 91 AA guns. So with a very minimal reduction in armament on a smaller hull, it should come as no surprised that beyond possibly being more ugly than other Japanese destroyers, the ships themselves were absolutely and truly unstable to say the least however quickly in service the class would be reconstructed after an incident with the torpedo boat Tomozuru whose dieting was really a attempt to get around the treaty by making a ship of 600 tons with half the armament of the Fubuki class which like this class had hilarious stability, this prompted a rebuild of the already commissioned ships however most of the class would be spared from this cruel fate as only the first 2 ships were competed to the original plan with the rest of the ships being rebuilt before completion to both a more stable design which accepted reality for what it was and also improving their ascetics, the class itself was actually going to consist of 12 ships but half were instead reorder to a modified design as well which was similar to he rebuild of the Hatsuharu class but included additional features to make them more stable along with the improved design, along with another 4 ships of the improved design being ordered it resulted in the next class, the Shiratsuyu class which incorporated not only the improvement in stability for obvious reasons but also had some improvements, as well as throwing the treaty limits to the wall since they did want something more stable than the Hatsuharu class while at least making some improvements beyond the stability.

                                                              

It should be mentioned about last 2 ships, Ariake and Yugure, despite both of them being still of the Hatsuharu class, they are both sometimes referred to as the Ariake class, the reason they are sometimes called this was due to the fact that they were slightly modified as not only were they built to the rebuild that the first 2 ships were subject too but had a slight increase in their beam in order to improve the stability of the ships, they also included slightly different main gun mountings from the rest but beyond that they were the same as their sisters hence why at times people have referred to them as another class due to the minor change however this is a unofficial name. Following the conversion of the first 2 ships and the continued construction of the other 4 ships the armament was modified as they retained all the main guns but had to relocate the single gun turret to be right behind the rear mount in order to make the ship less top-heavy, along with this the questionable super firing torpedo tube mount was removed, additional ballast was installed, and the ships superstructure was subsequently modified as well, yet these changes in particular were those which were made to reduce this ships top-heavy design, the ships displacement was increased beyond what the treaty permitted in order to improve the strength of the ships. hulls as they were lightly built and as a result also having the speed reduced from 36 to 33 knots due to an increase in displacement. All 6 of the Hatsuharu class destroyer would take part in the Second World War however all of them would be sunk over the period of the entire war with most being sunk by air attack, the last ship of the class, Hatsushimo managed to survive for quite a long time as she was put out of service in 1945 after hitting a sea mine dropped from a American plane which heavily damaged the ship and force the crew to beach the ship to prevent it from sinking which while they did succeed in meant the ship would never be able to be brought back into service, what's notable about Hatsushimo was that she was the last Japanese destroyer loss during the war as she was the 129th destroyer lost during the war by the Japanese.

                                                              

In terms of general armament they had originally 5 12.7 cm/50 (5") 3rd Year Type dual purpose guns in 2 twin mounts and a single, on the first 4 ships the twin mounts were Type B2 mountings while the last 2 used Type C mountings as the difference was that the B2 mountings had more gun elevation and slightly worse gun depression than the Type C mount as a weight saving measure used, and it was a similar case with the single mountings as first 4 ships used Type A single mounts while the last 2 ships used Type A1 mountings which had the same changes as the Type C mount had from the Type B2 mount as mentioned before the first 2 ships had them placed with a twin mount forward with the single mount super firing position while the other twin was placed at the rear however shortly within the time of entire service the first 2 being converted and the readier being completed to a new layout which placed it similar to the Fubuki class however the single mount was placed behind the rear twin mount which limited the firing arcs of the gun due to the lack of a super firing position, during the second world war the class would see the single mount removed in favor of adding more AA armament along with other systems such as radar, the AA armament when the ships were put into service only consisted of 2 40 mm/62 "HI" Type 91 AA guns in single mounts but over time this AA armament would gradually grow as the 40mm guns were at first replaced with twin 25mm Type 96 gun mounts and over war it would see more 25mm guns and 13.2mm guns installed with a total of 23 25mm guns and 4 13.2mm machine guns by late 1944, the first 2 ships had up to 9 61 cm Type 90 torpedo tubes in 3 triple mounts however these were quickly reduced to 6 for the first 2 ships and the rest were completed with 6 however each had full reloads.

                                                              

 

Note - Unless you read this already, you may have noticed that Nenohi is not included in here, this was done on purpose since a suggestion for her as built has already been made, since that suggestion already exist I decided not to include her since she had a dedicated suggestion, so also if in the specifications listed it says all others, this does not include Nenohi since she is not apart of this suggestion.

 

Specifications

Displacement:

1,490 tons standard (Hatsuharu As built)

1,715 tons standard (All other as built & Hatsuharu post rebuild)

1,900 tons full load (Hatsuharu As built)

2,240 tons full load (All other as built & Hatsuharu post rebuild)

 

Length: 109.5 m (359 ft 3 in) overall

 

Beam:

10 m (32 ft 10 in)

10.3 m (33 ft 9 in) (Ariake & Yugure only)

 

Draft: 3.38 m (11 ft 1 in)

 

Installed power:

42,000 shp (31,000 kW)

3 water-tube boilers

 

Propulsion: 2 shafts; 2 Kampon steam turbines

 

Speed:

36 knots (67 km/h; 41 mph) (Hatsuharu As built)

33 knots (61 km/h; 37 mph) (All other as built & Hatsuharu post rebuild)

 

Complement: 212

 

Sensors and systems:

As built

1 x Type 93 sonar 

 

1944/1945 refit

1 x Type 13 radar

1 x Type 22 radar

1 x Type 93 sonar 

 

Electronic warfare:

1944/1945 Refit 

1 x E-27 radar countermeasure

 

Armament:

Hatsuharu As built

Main armament:

5 x 12.7 cm/50 (5") 3rd Year Type guns (2 x 2 Type B₂ mounts + 1 x 1 Type A mount)

AA armament:

2 x 40 mm/62 "HI" Type 91 AA guns (2 x 1)

Torpedo tubes:

9 x 61 cm (24") Type 90 model 2 torpedo tubes (3 x 3) (18 Type 90 torpedos)

 

Wakaba & Hatsushimo As built & Hatsuharu post rebuilt

Main armament:

5 x 12.7 cm/50 (5") 3rd Year Type guns (2 x 2 Type B₂ mounts + 1 x 1 Type A mount)

AA armament:

2 x 40 mm/62 "HI" Type 91 AA guns (2 x 1)

Torpedo tubes:

6 x 61 cm (24") Type 90 model 2 torpedo tubes (2 x 3) (12 Type 90 torpedos)

 

Ariake & Yugure As built

Main armament:

5 x 12.7 cm/50 (5") 3rd Year Type guns (2 x 2  Type C mounts + 1 x 1 Type A₁ mount)

AA armament:

2 x 40 mm/62 "HI" Type 91 AA guns (2 x 1)

Torpedo tubes:

6 x 61 cm (24") Type 90 model 2 torpedo tubes (2 x 3) (12 Type 90 torpedos)

 

1939 - 1940 refit (All)

Possible switch to Type 93 torpedos (Not sure if the switch occurred by this point but sources mention the switch prior to the war)

 

1942 Refit (Ariake) (Not sure if Yugure got this refit)

Main armament:

5 x 12.7 cm/50 (5") 3rd Year Type guns (2 x 2  Type C mounts + 1 x 1 Type A₁ mount)

AA armament:

4 x 25 mm/60 Type 96 AA guns (2 x 2)

Torpedo tubes:

6 x 61 cm (24") Type 90 model 2 torpedo tubes (2 x 3) (12 Type 93 torpedos) (Not sure if the switch occurred by this point but sources mention the switch prior to the war)

 

1942 - 1943 Refit (Hatsushimo & Wakaba)

Main armament:

5 x 12.7 cm/50 (5") 3rd Year Type guns (2 x 2 Type B₂ mounts + 1 x 1 Type A mount)

AA armament:

4 x 25 mm/60 Type 96 AA guns (2 x 2)

Torpedo tubes:

6 x 61 cm (24") Type 90 model 2 torpedo tubes (2 x 3) (12 Type 93 torpedos)

 

1942 - 1943 Refit (Hatsuharu)

Main armament:

4 x 12.7 cm/50 (5") 3rd Year Type guns (2 x 2 Type B₂ mounts)

AA armament:

13 x 25 mm/60 Type 96 AA guns (3 x 3 + 2 x 2)

Torpedo tubes:

6 x 61 cm (24") Type 90 model 2 torpedo tubes (2 x 3) (12 Type 93 torpedos) 

 

Late 1943 refit (Hatsushimo)

Main armament:

4 x 12.7 cm/50 (5") 3rd Year Type guns (2 x 2 Type B₂ mounts)

AA armament:

16 x 25 mm/60 Type 96 AA guns (2 x 3 + 5 x 2)

Torpedo tubes:

6 x 61 cm (24") Type 90 model 2 torpedo tubes (2 x 3) (12 Type 93 torpedos) 

 

Late 1943 refit (Wakaba)

Main armament:

4 x 12.7 cm/50 (5") 3rd Year Type guns (2 x 2 Type B₂ mounts)

AA armament:

11 x 25 mm/60 Type 96 AA guns (1 x 3 + 4 x 2)

Torpedo tubes:

6 x 61 cm (24") Type 90 model 2 torpedo tubes (2 x 3) (12 Type 93 torpedos)

 

Early 1944 refit (Hatsuharu)

Main armament:

4 x 12.7 cm/50 (5") 3rd Year Type guns (2 x 2 Type B₂ mounts)

AA armament:

15 x 25 mm/60 Type 96 AA guns (3 x 3 + 2 x 2 + 2 x 1)

Torpedo tubes:

6 x 61 cm (24") Type 90 model 2 torpedo tubes (2 x 3) (12 Type 93 torpedos) 

 

1944 refit (Hatsuharu) 

Main armament:

4 x 12.7 cm/50 (5") 3rd Year Type guns (2 x 2 Type B₂ mounts)

AA armament:

25 x 25 mm/60 Type 96 AA guns (3 x 3 + 2 x 2 + 12 x 1)

4 x 13.2 mm/76 Type 93 AA guns (4 x 1)

Torpedo tubes:

6 x 61 cm (24") Type 90 model 2 torpedo tubes (2 x 3) (12 Type 93 torpedos) 

 

Early 1944 refit (Hatsushimo)

Main armament:

4 x 12.7 cm/50 (5") 3rd Year Type guns (2 x 2 Type B₂ mounts)

AA armament:

24 x 25 mm/60 Type 96 AA guns (2 x 3 + 5 x 2 + 8 x 1)

Torpedo tubes:

6 x 61 cm (24") Type 90 model 2 torpedo tubes (2 x 3) (12 Type 93 torpedos) 

 

Early 1944 refit (Wakaba)

Main armament:

4 x 12.7 cm/50 (5") 3rd Year Type guns (2 x 2 Type B₂ mounts)

AA armament:

13 x 25 mm/60 Type 96 AA guns (1 x 3 + 4 x 2 + 2 x 1)

Torpedo tubes:

6 x 61 cm (24") Type 90 model 2 torpedo tubes (2 x 3) (12 Type 93 torpedos)

 

1944 refit (Wakaba)

Main armament:

4 x 12.7 cm/50 (5") 3rd Year Type guns (2 x 2 Type B₂ mounts)

AA armament:

23 x 25 mm/60 Type 96 AA guns (1 x 3 + 4 x 2 + 12 x 1)

4 x 13.2 mm/76 Type 93 AA guns (4 x 1)

Torpedo tubes:

6 x 61 cm (24") Type 90 model 2 torpedo tubes (2 x 3) (12 Type 93 torpedos)

 

Late 1944 refit (Hatsuharu) (Source unsure of this refit, keep in mind this refit may not have occurred)

Main armament:

4 x 12.7 cm/50 (5") 3rd Year Type guns (2 x 2 Type B₂ mounts)

AA armament:

33 x 25 mm/60 Type 96 AA guns (3 x 3 + 2 x 2 + 20 x 1)

4 x 13.2 mm/76 Type 93 AA guns (4 x 1)

Torpedo tubes:

6 x 61 cm (24") Type 90 model 2 torpedo tubes (2 x 3) (12 Type 93 torpedos) 

 

Late 1944 refit (Hatsushimo)

Main armament:

4 x 12.7 cm/50 (5") 3rd Year Type guns (2 x 2 Type B₂ mounts)

AA armament:

24 x 25 mm/60 Type 96 AA guns (2 x 3 + 5 x 2 + 8 x 1)

4 x 13.2 mm/76 Type 93 AA guns (4 x 1)

Torpedo tubes:

6 x 61 cm (24") Type 90 model 2 torpedo tubes (2 x 3) (12 Type 93 torpedos) 

 

Late 1944 refit (Wakaba)

Main armament:

4 x 12.7 cm/50 (5") 3rd Year Type guns (2 x 2 Type B₂ mounts)

AA armament:

28 x 25 mm/60 Type 96 AA guns (1 x 3 + 4 x 2 + 17 x 1)

4 x 13.2 mm/76 Type 93 AA guns (4 x 1)

Torpedo tubes:

6 x 61 cm (24") Type 90 model 2 torpedo tubes (2 x 3) (12 Type 93 torpedos)

 

Early 1945 refit (Hatsushimo)

Main armament:

4 x 12.7 cm/50 (5") 3rd Year Type guns (2 x 2 Type B₂ mounts)

AA armament:

29 x 25 mm/60 Type 96 AA guns (2 x 3 + 5 x 2 + 13 x 1)

4 x 13.2 mm/76 Type 93 AA guns (4 x 1)

Torpedo tubes:

6 x 61 cm (24") Type 90 model 2 torpedo tubes (2 x 3) (12 Type 93 torpedos) 

 

Sources:

Spoiler

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatsuharu-class_destroyer

http://www.combinedfleet.com/lancers.htm#destroyers

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/初春型駆逐艦

https://www.navypedia.org/ships/japan/jap_dd_hatsuharu.htm

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNJAP_5-50_3ns.php

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Hatsuharu_class_destroyers

Image sources:

Spoiler

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Hatsuharu_class_destroyers

 

Edited May 8, 2022 by de Radio Demon@live

[leroyonly 4,311]

Open for discussion. 

[Fireraid233 4,274]

+1 early 1945 refit Hatsushimo

 

[Milocat 4,857]

At least one of these would be great to see, +1.

[jon_man1199 563]

Definitely a +1 from me, more Japanese destroyers are always welcome 

[ZackZooter 55]

I would chose the late 1944 Hatsuharu refit if there's valid proof of such modernization.... If it not, i choose either 1944 refit Hatsuharu OR early 1945 Hatsushimo as some members indicate here AS LONG AS any Japanese Destroyer have lots of 25mm AA gun... 

 

FYI... most player knows that Japanese AA are decently accurate at most and facing off against fast nimble plane that carries bomb with 600KG TNT filler are lethal to Destroyer with less AA gun, not to mention the lack of 37mm and bigger AA gun on Imperial Navy.... Italian & Germany have such which basically good enough to deter such capable bomber to certain extent....

 

Basically... Japanese don't have good AA gun mostly and their best AA gun, 100mm Type 89 used on Akizuki-class DD, Oyodo-class Cruiser and Aircraft Carrier Taiho only have HE-TF which is obsolete in WW2-level air defense... 

 

 

---- Extra FYI.... If Gaijin are WILLING to add limited use of GERAT 58 AA gun which does added on Type 1936A Z29 1945 refit if possible.... 

[ScorpionM4A1@live 1]

+1 Would definitely love to see these in game!!

[aizenns 3,591]

Nice suggestion!

I want to see Hatsuharu-class before modernization because they have very unique design.

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/455513-ijn-hatsuharu-class-destroyer-nenohi-1933/

 

[leroyonly 4,311]

As Hatsuharu has been implemented with Update 2.19 Drone Age,

 

Moved to Implemented Suggestions.