israeli light tank PT-76-2000

[JamesPond1200@psn 299]

The PT-76-2000

(Image credit: Nimda Co. Ltd.)

Background:

The vehicle I am suggesting is based on the PT-76, specifically the PT-76B. This vehicle, introduced in 1959, was an improved variant of the original PT-76. It features thin armor, reasonable mobility, a decent gun, and amphibious capabilities. In this way, it was able to provide cheap but effective armor for many nations for a very long time. Israel, however, believed the design could be improved upon, and in the 1990s (earliest I can verifiably confirm), the PT-76 received a brand new overhaul from Nimda. This new tank has been seen with several designations, though the official designation appears to be PT-76-2000 (Thank you @Merkko and @ofekk213. The vehicle saw adoption by only one nation, and that is Indonesia. They accepted it into service in the late 1990s as the PT-76(M). Their tanks have since been upgraded even further, but some remain at the Nimda level. This upgrade package would enable a unique and interesting light tank to join the Israeli tank tree, and I hope you will enjoy reading about it! This is my very first vehicle suggestion post, so if there is anything I should do to to fix it or enhance it, please don't hesitate to make suggestions!

 

Note: I am proposing the Israeli tank, not the Indonesian one. The Indonesian variant cannot fire APFSDS, but the Israeli one can, and there are some other minor differences. Any reference to the Indonesian version is purely to fill in information that I couldn't get elsewhere. The Israeli model is the prototype/technology demonstrator and uses the Cockerill MK3 with the single-baffle muzzle brake, therefore it can fire APFSDS. That is the version which I am proposing here. Sorry for any confusion!

The Tank:

The PT-76 is a vehicle we all know and love (or hate), and it is a mainstay of not only the War Thunder community, but also the world stage. This small, nimble, amphibious light tank first came on to the scene in 1951, and has been used by dozens of nations, many still to this day. One of those nations was Israel. The Israeli army captured many during their wars with the surrounding Arab nations and wound up pressing them into service. However, by the 1990s, these tanks were beginning to get a bit long in the tooth, so Nimda Group Ltd. put together an upgrade package which significantly increases the potential for modern combat use by this vehicle.

Spoiler

An Egyptian PT-76B captured by Israel and displayed at Yad la-Shiryon (Photo credit: Wikimedia user Bukvoed)

The Upgrades:

The primary upgrade here is the gun. The PT-76-2000 has been up-gunned to mount a Belgian Cockerill 90mm MK3 cannon in place of the original 76.2mm D-56T cannon. This new gun enabled it to fire a much wider range of modern projectiles, including APFSDS, HEAT-FS, HESH, HE, and more. This gun should be familiar to tankers already, as it is featured on such vehicles as the AUBL/74 and C13 T90. The coaxial machine gun has also been replaced with an FN MAG chambered in 7.62x51mm NATO. This allows the tank to better fit within the modern NATO standard instead of relying on Russian ammo for the older SGMT. The available ammunition for the 90mm gun comes from Mecar, and includes:

Spoiler

M616A1 HE-T

 

M620A1 HEAT-T

 

M625A1 HEP-T aka HESH-T

 

M652A1 APFSDS-T

 

M618A1 SMK(WP)-T (Smoke)

(Could not find a decent image, but the shell is already in-game)

 

The only two shells not yet featured in War Thunder for the Cockerill Mk.3 gun are the M616A1 HE and M652A1 APFSDS. As such, I won't be posting the data for the other shells since it would just be copied over. I can, however, share the ballistic charts I was able to find for the APFSDS and HE.

Spoiler

This was taken directly from the Nimda Group product brief available as a .pdf on their website:

 

And this chart was taken from ARMSCOM:

 

I was unable to find how many rounds this carries, but due to how much larger the ammunition is, I would imagine the amount is somewhat reduced, possibly significantly so. Regarding the machine gun, one source puts that at 1000 rounds of 7.62mm ammunition.

 

Next on the list is the engine and its associated components. This upgrade brings in a brand new Detroit Diesel 6V-92T 6-cylinder turbocharged engine producing 300hp with the original transmission. They do offer an option to replace the original transmission with an Allison X-200, but that would be up to the developers to decide. Obviously its performance would be enhanced with that addition, as the X-200 features a more modern construction with four forward gears and two reverse gears, as opposed to the single reverse gear of the baseline PT-76. Even without the new transmission though, the engine alone improves the mobility drastically adding around 60 more horsepower and a turbocharger.

 

The fire-control system has also been improved, with an upgraded day/night sight (unsure of the model), a laser rangefinder, and it retains full two-plane stabilization, though with a new system. This system also controls the turret drive and is fully solid-state electric, meaning it likely has much better turret traverse and gun elevation speeds, but I can't find any concrete data on those numbers.

 

EDIT: A friend of mine has provided me with another source which clarifies some information about the mobility of the vehicle as well as informing me of the fact that a roof-mounted MG is also present, though this is the only source I have found to show that. It does not say what model, but given the wording and what we already know, it is safe to assume another 7.62mm FN MAG. 

Spoiler

What Stayed the Same:

The armor has not been changed, nor have the tracks. The turret remains the same as well, aside from the new gun fittings. It still retains its amphibious capabilities, and it is still propelled via the rear waterjets with the trim vane erected up front while in the water. As a result, while this has much improved mobility and firepower, you are still as weak as ever to enemy fire. 

 

More Pictures

Spoiler

 

 

Lastly, here is a video clip demonstrating the tank in action: 

 

If there is anything I have forgotten to add, please let me know in the comments below! Thank you for reading my post, and I hope to make many more suggestions in the future!

 

Sources:

Spoiler

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PT-76

https://www.nimda.co.il/pt-76/

https://www.nimda.co.il/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/PT76_BROCHUR_2017_A3.pdf

http://www.military-today.com/tanks/pt_76m.htm

http://www.mecar.be/content.php?langue=english&cle_menus=1156856602

https://www.armscom.net/search?type=news+products+companies+sectors+conferences+countries+videos+&string=90mm cockerill

The World Encyclopedia of Tanks and Armored Fighting Vehicles by George Forty and Jack Livesey - Page 217

 

Edited February 27 by JamesPond1200@psn
Clarification and renaming

[Thatz 634]

Open for discussion 
 

Edited May 29, 2022 by Thatz

[Epsilon160 269]

+1 but I have a bit of a nitpick; the gun pictured in the models on the brochure for the PT-71 is actually the Mk3-A1 gun with a single baffle muzzle brake, which can fire APFSDS. The gun the Indonesian PT-76(M) uses is the Mk3 with a triple baffle muzzle brake, which cannot fire APFSDS. Yeah I know the gun names are basically exactly the same but they do have different capabilities.

Edited May 28, 2022 by Epsilon160

[Valcour 1,139]

An interesting variant.

 

[Milocat 4,842]

+1, would be a good addition.

[JamesPond1200@psn 299]

5 hours ago, Thatz said:

Your sources state that Indonesia upgraded some of their PT-76's into this new variant.
Did you mean to make this under other nations for Indonesia? If not do you have any evidence of Israel upgrading their PT-76's with this upgrade package? (I personally can find on wiki they did but I cant find any more references or anything else about israel using this upgrade)

I did indeed mean to put this in the Israeli suggestion box, as what I am suggesting is the Nimda upgrade, not the PT-76(M). I was only using the PT-76(M) as a reference since it is a slight modification of the Israeli package, and I wanted to make sure I had enough information. If you want I can edit my post to clarify. Also, thanks for the approval!

[JamesPond1200@psn 299]

4 hours ago, Epsilon160 said:

+1 but I have a bit of a nitpick; the gun pictured in the models on the brochure for the PT-71 is actually the Mk3-A1 gun with a single baffle muzzle brake, which can fire APFSDS. The gun the Indonesian PT-76(M) uses is the Mk3 with a triple baffle muzzle brake, which cannot fire APFSDS. Yeah I know the gun names are basically exactly the same but they do have different capabilities.

I know, and I'm sorry if I caused any confusion. The references to the PT-76(M) were because they started with the Nimda package but adjusted it for their needs. What I am proposing is the Israeli one which can, indeed, fire the APFSDS.

[hienapunk 1,064]

I could see it as a tier 5 premium.

[JamesPond1200@psn 299]

7 minutes ago, hienapunk said:

I could see it as a tier 5 premium.

Oh I do hope it isn't premium. Israel needs all the TT vehicles it can get.

[hienapunk 1,064]

8 minutes ago, JamesPond1200@psn said:

Oh I do hope it isn't premium. Israel needs all the TT vehicles it can get.

 

That's fair. It is better than a normal pt76. I think Israel has plenty of options for better tech tree stuff though *cough cough M5 halftrack DEFA 90mm cough cough*. Though even then they do lack light tanks.

[JamesPond1200@psn 299]

4 minutes ago, hienapunk said:

 

That's fair. It is better than a normal pt76. I think Israel has plenty of options for better tech tree stuff though *cough cough M5 halftrack DEFA 90mm cough cough*. Though even then they do lack light tanks.

They need that one too. They need EVERYTHING they can get. I would like to minimize the premiums purely on the basis of how few vehicles Israel has to use from the beginning.

[Thatz 634]

12 hours ago, JamesPond1200@psn said:

I did indeed mean to put this in the Israeli suggestion box, as what I am suggesting is the Nimda upgrade, not the PT-76(M). I was only using the PT-76(M) as a reference since it is a slight modification of the Israeli package, and I wanted to make sure I had enough information. If you want I can edit my post to clarify. Also, thanks for the approval!

Just for the record I didn't Aprove it yet I just wanted to see if you had more information because I know that they exported this upgrade package but I can only find 1 reference on Wikipedia stating that they also sold some to the Israeli Armed forces I just forgot to put the 48 hours thing.

So right now ill state it.
"Can you please provide more information to support that Israel used this upgrade package. You will have 48 hour to provide more evidence to support your suggestion if you cannot provide more evidence they suggestion will be archived."

[JamesPond1200@psn 299]

4 hours ago, Thatz said:

Just for the record I didn't Aprove it yet I just wanted to see if you had more information because I know that they exported this upgrade package but I can only find 1 reference on Wikipedia stating that they also sold some to the Israeli Armed forces I just forgot to put the 48 hours thing.

So right now ill state it.
"Can you please provide more information to support that Israel used this upgrade package. You will have 48 hour to provide more evidence to support your suggestion if you cannot provide more evidence they suggestion will be archived."

I am more than happy to look for other info, but isn't the M60 AMBT in the game despite not being adopted by the Turkish military? And the T69-IIG was made exclusively for Bangladesh. 

[DMYEugen 688]

13 minutes ago, JamesPond1200@psn said:

isn't the M60 AMBT in the game despite not being adopted by the Turkish military?

The M60 AMBT was developed by a Turkish company and not adopted by anyone. Therefore, it is under the Turkish flag in-game as a US event vehicle.

 

13 minutes ago, JamesPond1200@psn said:

T69-IIG was made exclusively for Bangladesh

Yes. It's a Bangladeshi tank heavily based on a Chinese one, which is why it is a Chinese premium with the Bangladeshi flag.

Edited May 28, 2022 by DMYEugen

[JamesPond1200@psn 299]

14 minutes ago, DMYEugen said:

The M60 AMBT was developed by a Turkish company and not adopted by anyone. Therefore, it is under the Turkish flag in-game as a US event vehicle.

 

Yes. It's a Bangladeshi tank heavily based on a Chinese one, which is why it is a Chinese premium with the Bangladeshi flag.

My point is that they are vehicles that were developed as upgrades but not adopted by the country they represent, or even at all, therefore there really isn't a reason to exclude the PT-76 Nimda, considering that it was adopted by Indonesia, therefore it actually meets MORE criteria than the M60 AMBT. 

 

I'm going to contact Nimda directly via email. They may take some time to respond, so 48 hours might not be enough. I would request an extension while I wait for their reply.

Edited May 28, 2022 by JamesPond1200@psn

[Thatz 634]

1 hour ago, JamesPond1200@psn said:

My point is that they are vehicles that were developed as upgrades but not adopted by the country they represent, or even at all, therefore there really isn't a reason to exclude the PT-76 Nimda, considering that it was adopted by Indonesia, therefore it actually meets MORE criteria than the M60 AMBT. 

 

I'm going to contact Nimda directly via email. They may take some time to respond, so 48 hours might not be enough. I would request an extension while I wait for their reply.

I can wait a bit longer but If you need more then 48 hours you can copy and paste into a document to then re-make the suggestion once you have more information

[JamesPond1200@psn 299]

29 minutes ago, Thatz said:

I can wait a bit longer but If you need more then 48 hours you can copy and paste into a document to then re-make the suggestion once you have more information

I appreciate that, but I still don't understand why other vehicles not put into service have been added or passed to devs, such as the M60 AMBT, M60AX, General Dynamics 120S, M48 Super, AMX-30 Super, and others but this one can't. It more than meets the equivalent requirements, and even was adopted by the Indonesians. I have sent out a message to Nimda and am working on other research, but it just doesn't really make sense to me.

[Thatz 634]

57 minutes ago, JamesPond1200@psn said:

I appreciate that, but I still don't understand why other vehicles not put into service have been added or passed to devs, such as the M60 AMBT, M60AX, General Dynamics 120S, M48 Super, AMX-30 Super, and others but this one can't. It more than meets the equivalent requirements, and even was adopted by the Indonesians. I have sent out a message to Nimda and am working on other research, but it just doesn't really make sense to me.

I'll break this down for the last time because I'm not gonna run in circles anymore about this.
1. Rules change so the rules that were in place when X suggestion were made might not be the same anymore

2. Here ill break down each vehicle you mentioned:

• M60 AMBT [No Suggestion was made for the vehicle]
• M60AX [Prototype but never entered production and wasn't purchased or tested by any other nation. Therefore it can go to the nation that made it]
• General Dynamics 120S [Same thing as above, except It may have been tested by Turkey]
• M48 Super [German made upgrade package for the M48, Did not sell at all]
• AMX-30 Super [No Suggestion was made for this vehicle]

Vehicles that just get added to the game do not need to follow our (suggestions guidelines)

I wont explain this again and if you think im wrong etc. feel free to message one of the senior suggestion moderators however they will say the same as me since these are just the overall rules we follow.

[Thatz 634]

After discussing with other Suggestion Moderators and going through all of the facts/doing research we came to the agreement that we will be opening this suggestion for discussion but we would like you to reword a bit of your suggestion to make it clear you are suggesting the prototype/demonstrator (shown in the More Pictures ( Cockerill 90mm MK3 cannon [Single muzzle break])).

Edited May 29, 2022 by Thatz

[JamesPond1200@psn 299]

10 minutes ago, Thatz said:

After discussing with other Suggestion Moderators and going through all of the facts/doing research we came to the agreement that we will be opening this suggestion for discussion but we would like you to reword a bit of your suggestion to make it clear you are suggesting the prototype/demonstrator (shown in the More Pictures ( Cockerill 90mm MK3 cannon [Single muzzle break])).

Thank you! I will get on that right away. I look forward to seeing this hopefully passed for consideration!

[lLiberté 345]

  I don't know how much difference it will make but NIMDA Group's brochure has a photograph which states BTR-2000 tested by NIMDA. (Both BTR and PT upgraded within same program.) Possibly NIMDA tested PT too before Indonesia. 

 

[JamesPond1200@psn 299]

7 minutes ago, Dewastor said:

  I don't know how much difference it will make but NIMDA Group's brochure has a photograph which states BTR-2000 tested by NIMDA. (Both BTR and PT upgraded within same program.) Possibly NIMDA tested PT too before Indonesia. 

I mean, we know for a fact that they did, since in the video clip I provided you can see it in action. But this has been opened for discussion, so no worries there! That being said, thank you for the extra information!

@Thatz I do have one last question. When does the suggestion get added to the "Previously suggested" list pinned to the top? Since this is my first go-around I'm still a little unsure of the process.

[Thatz 634]

4 hours ago, JamesPond1200@psn said:

I mean, we know for a fact that they did, since in the video clip I provided you can see it in action. But this has been opened for discussion, so no worries there! That being said, thank you for the extra information!

@Thatz I do have one last question. When does the suggestion get added to the "Previously suggested" list pinned to the top? Since this is my first go-around I'm still a little unsure of the process.

I should of added it last night but I was too tired and fell asleep. I will be adding it this morning

[Thatz 634]

6 hours ago, Dewastor said:

  I don't know how much difference it will make but NIMDA Group's brochure has a photograph which states BTR-2000 tested by NIMDA. (Both BTR and PT upgraded within same program.) Possibly NIMDA tested PT too before Indonesia. 

The PT in the brochure show in the main post under More images Shows off the Cockrerill 90mm Mk III MA1 with a single muzzle break which was able to fire APFSDS which as @Epsilon160pointed out (you probably saved this suggestion with your comment) The Indonesian PT's all got a triple muzzle break that was unable to fire APFSDS. So the thinking is the one photographed in the brochure is a prototype or their first version of the upgrade kit and the one's they sold to Indonesia were different since they have a triple muzzle break.

[hienapunk 1,064]

I've come around on it as a regular tree vehicle, as literally the only option Israel has for a light tank line (and thus the ability to scout) is AMX13-->AML90-->this thing-->ZELDA-->EITEN.

Edited June 2, 2022 by hienapunk