ZTZ 99A reload and reverse speed is obviously wrong...

[jet_17_49 411]

47 minutes ago, Scr0_0ge said:

this video shows more clearly with slow motion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLBEs0L7fbM&lc=UgzX-Mo4Vb-uU_reraB4AaABAg

 

From what I gather it isn't impossible for T-72 style autoloaders in general to have a reload cycle as short as 6.5s (I assume this video hasn't been artificially sped up)

 

Edited June 1, 2022 by jet_17_49

[MO_Smart_Sharkon 882]

7 minutes ago, jet_17_49 said:

From what I gather it isn't impossible for T-72 style autoloaders in general to have a reload cycle as short as 6.5s (I assume this video hasn't been artificially sped up)

 

They can go 6.5, yes, but "balancing" issues

[jet_17_49 411]

1 hour ago, MO_Blahajman said:

They can go 6.5, yes, but "balancing" issues

My thoughts exactly

Edited June 1, 2022 by jet_17_49

[MuricaxSuffers 1,806]

even then it would be what 19.5 secs ? except the first shot is already loaded...

[VeNoMxBR 789]

Let's wait for more changes in the dev server. Hopefully, they buff it a little bit

[jet_17_49 411]

This thread is now a general purpose ZTZ99A pending improvements thread

 

Latest (known) generation of PLAGF 125mm ammunition (stole these from a Weibo article, concrete stats not given):

 

1. DTP10-125 HEAT-FS, new fuse, stated to be more "potent" than the DTP125 (I assume this means more pen)

Spoiler

2. DTB12 HEF-FS, less explosive mass than the DTB125 but has a "wireless proxy fuse" whatever that means (something like the T-90A's Ainet remote detonation system maybe)

Spoiler

3. DTD10 anti fortification round (not sure what this does)

Spoiler

 

[AN94_Master 9]

In the test server, the horizontal and vertical aiming speeds of ztz99a are 30 and 6 degrees, respectively. This data is significantly lower than other 11.0 tanks (such as T80BVM and Leopard 2 at 40 degrees/40 degrees and Leclerc at 30 degrees/36 degrees). Due to the strict confidentiality of the Chinese military, we could not get much real data about the tank. However, as the most advanced MBT currently installed by the Chinese military, the 6 degree vertical targeting speed will disappoint many players. If we can't get the real data, we should reach the minimum level of 11.0MBT for gameplay and balance - a vertical targeting speed of 10 degrees per second (corresponding to Type 10). Of course, I believe that if you give better data (such as 40 degrees/20 degrees) in the game, there will be more players who want to control this great MBT.

Hope my post is not broken

 

[FilthyAxender 2]

ZTZ-99A has 6.5s reloade speed like T-80U which maybe confirms rumor that china bought some T-80 after soviet colapse and studied autoloader ZTZ96 series anad ZTZ99 II have T-72 type autoloader but ZTZ99 III and ZTZ99A have upgraded autoloader you can see it your self 

 

Edited June 8, 2022 by FilthyAxender

[_Fantom2451_ 292]

Video doesn't include carousel rotation.

The video clearly shows that ZTZ autoloader is ~copy of T-72 autoloader.

T-80 autoloader is fundamentally different.

Spoiler

 

[TheCheshireCat 2,578]

2 hours ago, FilthyAxender said:

ZTZ-99A has 6.5s reloade speed like T-80U which maybe confirms rumor that china bought some T-80 after soviet colapse and studied autoloader ZTZ96 series anad ZTZ99 II have T-72 type autoloader but ZTZ99 III and ZTZ99A have upgraded autoloader you can see it your self 

You're going to need declassified documentation or multiple secondary sources to support your claim presented within a historical report. I appreciate your enthusiasm but a thread with a random video without hard evidence will not make a difference.

[FoxHunter422 2]

21 hours ago, _Fantom2451_ said:

Video doesn't include carousel rotation.

The video clearly shows that ZTZ autoloader is ~copy of T-72 autoloader.

T-80 autoloader is fundamentally different.

Reveal hidden contents

 

Such classic misunderstanding. Chinese copied T72's auto loader was correct, but they have already done many improvements. Even Russian thought T72's auto loader stucture is better than T80's, the only problem is they don't have money to modify them. For ZTZ99A, the reload time has been imporved to 6-6.5s, and multiple videos can prove that in the ZTZ99A documents upload forum. The problem is just gaijin doesn't wanna Chinese tank better than Russian's in the game. Same thing happens for ZTZ99A's gun depression. There were so many exampes, such as reverse speed of ZTZ96A, ZTL11. Btw from my understanding, the 7.1s should included the time of chose and pick the correct ammo type. 

[CTCrusader 214]

8 hours ago, FoxHunter422 said:

Such classic misunderstanding. Chinese copied T72's auto loader was correct, but they have already done many improvements. Even Russian thought T72's auto loader stucture is better than T80's, the only problem is they don't have money to modify them. For ZTZ99A, the reload time has been imporved to 6-6.5s, and multiple videos can prove that in the ZTZ99A documents upload forum. The problem is just gaijin doesn't wanna Chinese tank better than Russian's in the game. Same thing happens for ZTZ99A's gun depression. There were so many exampes, such as reverse speed of ZTZ96A, ZTL11. Btw from my understanding, the 7.1s should included the time of chose and pick the correct ammo type. 

There is no official source stating that ZTZ-99A has reload of 6-6.5s (all sources state 7.1-7.5s) and videos while can sometimes be used as proof but these types of videos can easily be manipulated like the video supposedly showing a T-72 firing 3 rounds in 12 seconds. The portion of the reload is also split into 3 sections (beginning of reload, pre loading of projectile into breach, storing of autoloader) which means this is not an effective video demonstrating ZTZ's reload due to human error when cutting up the footage for the video. Saying something is better is one thing but you need multiple pieces of evidence not one video with high likelihood of errors to say its so and no one has dug up any papers which say that the ZTZ-99 has a reload of 6.5s, only videos so this makes me skeptical of people claiming faster reload. 

[安东Official 55]

Optimization was conducted in the autoloader of ZTZ-99A, China has been studying and improving the autoloader from t-72 for more the 15 years until they start to develop ZTZ-99A. ZTZ-99A's auto loader only looks similar to the t-72, but with faster speed and more reliability.

[Dandanteng 0]

[CTCrusader 214]

1 hour ago, Zhnang198964 said:

Optimization was conducted in the autoloader of ZTZ-99A, China has been studying and improving the autoloader from t-72 for more the 15 years until they start to develop ZTZ-99A. ZTZ-99A's auto loader only looks similar to the t-72, but with faster speed and more reliability.

Source? And while I don't doubt this to be possible no one has provided links to any documents discussing the tank in detail besides media articles which are about as truthful as a con man. And if china could upgrade their autoloaders don't you think russia would too with T-72B3?

[安东Official 55]

49 minutes ago, CTCrusader said:

Source? And while I don't doubt this to be possible no one has provided links to any documents discussing the tank in detail besides media articles which are about as truthful as a con man. And if china could upgrade their autoloaders don't you think russia would too with T-72B3?

Simple, compare Russia's military costs with China.

Also, I believe the accurate structure of one of the most advanced third-gen tanks is highly classified. Actually, Gaijin is not supposed to have any accurate information about any gen-3 tanks. Don't you remember the British Challenger2 accident? 

[jet_17_49 411]

1 hour ago, CTCrusader said:

And if china could upgrade their autoloaders don't you think russia would too with T-72B3?

I mean they kinda did, just in another direction. They made theirs compatible with projectiles longer than 680mm.

Edited June 10, 2022 by jet_17_49

[_Fantom2451_ 292]

On 09/06/2022 at 13:45, FoxHunter422 said:

For ZTZ99A, the reload time has been imporved to 6-6.5s, and multiple videos can prove that

The video that was posted by TS proves that reload is more then 6.5s. Video doesn't shows whole reload process. There is no leading the barrel to the loading angle, no carousel rotation, not full ammo lifting.

[CTCrusader 214]

6 hours ago, Zhnang198964 said:

Simple, compare Russia's military costs with China.

Also, I believe the accurate structure of one of the most advanced third-gen tanks is highly classified. Actually, Gaijin is not supposed to have any accurate information about any gen-3 tanks. Don't you remember the British Challenger2 accident? 

Military spending is not a definite way to say look they made this specific thing better. Please get a source. 

[IQuitAfter1Death 34]

11 hours ago, Zhnang198964 said:

Simple, compare Russia's military costs with China.

Also, I believe the accurate structure of one of the most advanced third-gen tanks is highly classified. Actually, Gaijin is not supposed to have any accurate information about any gen-3 tanks. Don't you remember the British Challenger2 accident? 

Look. I do want faster reload for 99A but this is literally just a speculation ''This X has less spending than this Y so therefore Y must have better something''. Not an evidence. Doesn't help at all.

[tiger7742 260]

Originally posted this on the 99A suggestion post

 

This video touches on the penetration of the round that the ZTZ-99A uses (680mm of homogeneous armour at 2000m), it also shows the full process of the vehicle loading a round (9:08-9:15, based on the video it seems like it is seven seconds)

 

P.s. the video also states that the vehicle has a muzzle velocity of 1700-1800 meters/second

 

Edit: Seeing the "confused" reaction to this post, I think I should make the point I want to make crystal clear: Unfortunately, I think the reload of the 99A is still 7 seconds.

 

Edited June 11, 2022 by tiger7742

[安东Official 55]

12 hours ago, IQuitAfter1Death said:

Look. I do want faster reload for 99A but this is literally just a speculation ''This X has less spending than this Y so therefore Y must have better something''. Not an evidence. Doesn't help at all.

Unfortunately, no top-tier vehicles in Warthunder are constructed based on "evidence", no country will ever allow any leak of their most advanced weapons. When we talk about the statistic of top-tier MBTs, it's just something about game balance, real situations can not be the priority.

[Jεcka 4,618]

4 hours ago, tiger7742 said:

This video touches on the penetration of the round that the ZTZ-99A uses (680mm of homogeneous armour at 2000m)

FYI, that is at an angle of 71.2 degrees. DTC10-125 cannot penetrate that much against a vertical armour plate at any distance due to its penetrator being too short unless said plate is literally cardboard.

Edited June 11, 2022 by YuyukoSaigyouji_

[tiger7742 260]

7 hours ago, YuyukoSaigyouji_ said:

FYI, that is at an angle of 71.2 degrees. DTC10-125 cannot penetrate that much against a vertical armour plate at any distance due to its penetrator being too short unless said plate is literally cardboard.

I'm aware of that, but was too lazy to rewrite the post, so I just copied what I wrote in the original post over. But thank you for pointing it out. 

[a17qaz_hmr 19]

Seconded