missiles The AIM-54 Phoenix missile - Technology, History and Performance

[stevehappy321 89]

5 hours ago, MaMoran20@psn said:

"guidance": {
      "inertialNavigation": true,
      "warmUpTime": 1.4,
      "workTime": 100.0,
      "uncageBeforeLaunch": true,
      "lockAfterLaunch": true,
      "useTargetVel": true,
      "lockTimeOut": 0.75,
      "lockDistance": 16000.0,
      "afterLaunchSpeedUp": 170.0,
      "breakLockMaxTime": 150.0,
      "inertialGuidance": {
        "inertialNavigationDriftSpeed": 10.0,
        "datalink": true

Ayo, datalink?

------------------

I could've sworn the pitbull range in WT could go as low as 8km or so, I've been caught off guard by a handful of Phoenixes that didn't lock me until they were right up in my face.

That, or there's an obscure bug that doesn't set off the target's RWR until it's closer

[Flame2512 3,386]

4 hours ago, stevehappy321 said:

That, or there's an obscure bug that doesn't set off the target's RWR until it's closer

 

RWR in War Thunder do have dead zones like in real life, so it is possible that the missile was approaching from an RWR dead zone.

[MaMoran20@psn 198]

line 92

"machMax": 4.3,

Is just start card number right?

[Flame2512 3,386]

32 minutes ago, MaMoran20@psn said:

line 92

"machMax": 4.3,

Is just start card number right?

Yes. It's only impacts the stat card

[Gatsby_WT 136]

41 minutes ago, MaMoran20@psn said:

line 92

"machMax": 4.3,

Is just start card number right?

It has 1800 m/s max speed at any given altitude.

[David Bowie 1,554]

Dose anyone have data AIM-54A's maneuverability? Materials other than Grumman's poster only mention 16-17g.

 

An Outsiders view on the Phoenix AWG-9 Weapon System (Primary source)

Spoiler

 

 

Iranian F-14 Tomcat Units in Combat by Tom Cooper, Farzad Bishop (Author) & Chris Davey (Illustrator) form Osprey Publishing

Spoiler

 

 

Grumman F-14 Tomcat by David Baker (Secondary source)

Spoiler

 

 

 

[oom1992 649]

On 22/11/2022 at 10:46, _David_Bowie_ said:

Dose anyone have data AIM-54A's maneuverability? Materials other than Grumman's poster only mention 16-17g.

 

An Outsiders view on the Phoenix AWG-9 Weapon System (Primary source)

Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Iranian F-14 Tomcat Units in Combat by Tom Cooper, Farzad Bishop (Author) & Chris Davey (Illustrator) form Osprey Publishing

Reveal hidden contents

 

Grumman F-14 Tomcat by David Baker (Secondary source)

Reveal hidden contents

 

 

I wonder maneuverability of AIM-54C & AIM-54C ECCM on F-14B and F-14D Tomcat at 18G or 25G ? 

[Gatsby_WT 136]

16 minutes ago, oom1992 said:

I wonder maneuverability of AIM-54C & AIM-54C ECCM on F-14B and F-14D Tomcat at 18G or 25G ? 

18 G for single plane and 25 G for combined plane would make sense.

[oom1992 649]

55 minutes ago, PhantomRiderWT said:

18 G for single plane and 25 G for combined plane would make sense.

Ah let's say AIM-54C avaliable on war thunder, you guess overload ?

Edited November 22, 2022 by oom1992

[Gatsby_WT 136]

2 hours ago, oom1992 said:

Ah let's say AIM-54C avaliable on war thunder, you guess overload ?

What I've read on DCS' forums, AIM-54C has same maneuverability as previous versions BUT it has digital seeker instead of analog one, also is less susceptible to chaff and notching. And also it can go pitbull at its own (when you lose lock for example).

[spacenavy90 1,402]

On 22/11/2022 at 04:46, _David_Bowie_ said:

Dose anyone have data AIM-54A's maneuverability? Materials other than Grumman's poster only mention 16-17g.

 

An Outsiders view on the Phoenix AWG-9 Weapon System (Primary source)

Hide contents

 

Iranian F-14 Tomcat Units in Combat by Tom Cooper, Farzad Bishop (Author) & Chris Davey (Illustrator) form Osprey Publishing

Hide contents

 

Grumman F-14 Tomcat by David Baker (Secondary source)

Hide contents

 

 

 

 

[David Bowie 1,554]

Does anyone know the maximum gimbal limit of AIM-54? Current gimbal limit is 15°, and it's copy and pasted from AIM-7.

[spacenavy90 1,402]

2 hours ago, _David_Bowie_ said:

Does anyone know the maximum gimbal limit of AIM-54? Current gimbal limit is 15°, and it's copy and pasted from AIM-7.

 

Having a difficult time finding a hard source (that isn't classified) to confirm this. There is a diagram in the Forecast International article on the AIM-54 which if true to scale shows the max gimbal limit around 60 degrees.

https://www.f-16.net/forum/download/file.php?id=36652

 

Edited December 2, 2022 by spacenavy90

[David Bowie 1,554]

5 hours ago, spacenavy90 said:

Having a difficult time finding a hard source (that isn't classified) to confirm this.

Do you know the exact value?  I couldn't find that part in the manual.

 

I think ±30~35° seeker fov is correct, this value also matches AIM-7.

[MiG_23M 1,684]

On 27/11/2022 at 10:15, spacenavy90 said:

 

 

In-game it is 20m, should be revised down to 15. I have seen no source that suggests 20.

Edited February 12, 2023 by MiG_23M

[David Bowie 1,554]

1 minute ago, MiG_23M said:

@_David_Bowie_

I'm attaching files from the Russian AIM-54A manual that they determined from testing of their captured Iranian Phoenix (the one that defected to Iraq I believe)

 

Oh and 16G max G tolerance and 7.5m blast radius, needs revised down from 20m.

There are many errors in that manual, it is unreliable.

 

The performance of the AIM-7,9 in that chart is all wrong

[MiG_23M 1,684]

6 minutes ago, _David_Bowie_ said:

There are many errors in that manual, it is unreliable.

 

The performance of the AIM-7,9 in that chart is all wrong

It doesn't matter if the AIM-7 and AIM-9 are not accurate in the documents if they are accurate in other Soviet documents and simply used for comparison or whatever at that time. The document is pertaining to the Phoenix and was using then-known info to them about the other missiles. Data on the phoenix would be the part that is looked at and since it was from actual testing should be taken as a proper first hand source.

 

Inaccuracies elsewhere in the document do not dictate whether or not the info on the phoenix is good or bad.

Edited December 2, 2022 by MiG_23M

[spacenavy90 1,402]

1 hour ago, _David_Bowie_ said:

Do you know the exact value?  I couldn't find that part in the manual.

 

I think ±30~35° seeker fov is correct, this value also matches AIM-7.

 

The exact value is located in "NAVAIR 01−F14AAA−1A" which is still classified/export restricted, so I can not say.

Through public sources I have also heard 45 degrees for the gimbal limit however.

Edited December 2, 2022 by spacenavy90

[MiG_23M 1,684]

7 minutes ago, spacenavy90 said:

 

The exact value is located in "NAVAIR 01−F14AAA−1A" which is still classified/export restricted, so I can not say.

Through public sources I have also heard 45 degrees for the gimbal limit however.

Would you like to share the public source instead of making a claim and then possibly reading from the classified material?

[spacenavy90 1,402]

1 minute ago, MiG_23M said:

Would you like to share the public source instead of making a claim and then possibly reading from the classified material?

 

It comes from an amalgamation of unreliable sources, including DCS World values. I'm not sharing and specific information or screenshots, relax.

 

 

[David Bowie 1,554]

40 minutes ago, MiG_23M said:

It doesn't matter if the AIM-7 and AIM-9 are not accurate in the documents if they are accurate in other Soviet documents and simply used for comparison or whatever at that time. The document is pertaining to the Phoenix and was using then-known info to them about the other missiles. Data on the phoenix would be the part that is looked at and since it was from actual testing should be taken as a proper first hand source.

 

Inaccuracies elsewhere in the document do not dictate whether or not the info on the phoenix is good or bad.

Your argument is based on something that never happened, Iran never gave the Soviet Union an AIM-54 for research.

 

Iraq's capture of the AIM-54 is also a highly discredited claim.

[David Bowie 1,554]

20 minutes ago, spacenavy90 said:

The exact value is located in "NAVAIR 01−F14AAA−1A" which is still classified/export restricted, so I can not say.

Through public sources I have also heard 45 degrees for the gimbal limit however.

I saw a NAVAIR 01-F14AAA-1A on ebay marked as declassified, and does the file exist online?  I don't know who bought that manual.

[Flame2512 3,386]

44 minutes ago, MiG_23M said:

It doesn't matter if the AIM-7 and AIM-9 are not accurate in the documents if they are accurate in other Soviet documents and simply used for comparison or whatever at that time. The document is pertaining to the Phoenix and was using then-known info to them about the other missiles. Data on the phoenix would be the part that is looked at and since it was from actual testing should be taken as a proper first hand source.

 

Inaccuracies elsewhere in the document do not dictate whether or not the info on the phoenix is good or bad.

 

The info on the Phoenix certainly seems questionable. It claims the continuous rod has radius of 7.5 m, but that would mean the rod is significantly smaller than the AIM-7's rod (9 m) despite the warhead being far bigger. That doesn't make much sense.

[spacenavy90 1,402]

2 minutes ago, _David_Bowie_ said:

I saw a NAVAIR 01-F14AAA-1A on ebay marked as declassified, and does the file exist online?  I don't know who bought that manual.

 

The file does not exist online, and when I reached out via the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) my claim was denied.

So even if you could find it online or in-person you couldn't use the information per Gaijin's own classified information standards.

[MiG_23M 1,684]

9 minutes ago, _David_Bowie_ said:

Your argument is based on something that never happened, Iran never gave the Soviet Union an AIM-54 for research.

 

Iraq's capture of the AIM-54 is also a highly discredited claim.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.upi.com/amp/Archives/1985/11/20/Iran-gave-the-Soviet-Union-US-F-14-Tomcat-and/2779501310800/

 

Russians helping Iran with their F-14s upkeep after the Shah was overthrown however is purported by Janes. Since this is supposedly false I am to assume you will have never used Janes as a source of any kind ever since one inaccuracy is sufficient to discredit anything?