missiles AIM-120 AMRAAM: History, Performance & Discussion

[spacenavy90 1,402]

3 hours ago, Hobel said:

I'm not talking about the range, I think WT and DCS will be similar.

I'm talking more about tracking and the guidcene

 

things like that : https://streamable.com/scad96

also the proxy fuze is still at 7m, which makes for some interesting scenes...

 

The Aim120 has undergone a very interesting and difficult development over the last 3 years.

and I hope that we will have a final Aim120 by the end of 20 23 in DCS.

 

I never said anything about range, I was speaking about general performance (including tracking, guidance and range among others).

 

5 hours ago, Faster_Boiiiii said:

JA 37D ^^ pls

 

anyways, dont use DCS guidance though. they somehow mess it up every 2 updates

 

JA-37 is already pretty good, so I wouldn't hold my breath.

[Morvran_ 661]

Can't wait to get the Sea Harrier FA.2 and unleash these against the soviet stuff in sim. Might finally be able to put them on the defensive.

[Faster_Boiiiii 753]

10 hours ago, spacenavy90 said:

JA-37 is already pretty good, so I wouldn't hold my breath.

thats debatable (was gonna put a thinking emoji here but gaijin says no)

 

i just have a feeling that those 3 are going to be the first to receive 120s... just makes sense y'know

 

 

actually maybe thats why those 3 won't get them first......

[spacenavy90 1,402]

5 hours ago, Faster_Boiiiii said:

thats debatable (was gonna put a thinking emoji here but gaijin says no)

 

i just have a feeling that those 3 are going to be the first to receive 120s... just makes sense y'know

 

actually maybe thats why those 3 won't get them first......

 

It really doesn't make sense though, from a balance perspective. Yes the JA-37D should come eventually with -120Bs, but definitely not as the first or even in the first few. Reason being that it already has very good overall performance in its engine, avionics and existing weaponry (with the Swedish AIM-9L equivalent coming soon likely amplifying that advantage). Giving the JA-37C the AMRAAM at the same time or even before something like the F-4F ICE or just about any Harrier suffers pretty heavily in everything in comparison to the Viggen. So my guess would be that we will see the AMRAAM come to Germany first.

[Faster_Boiiiii 753]

13 minutes ago, spacenavy90 said:

It really doesn't make sense though, from a balance perspective. Yes the JA-37D should come eventually with -120Bs, but definitely not as the first or even in the first few. Reason being that it already has very good overall performance in its engine, avionics and existing weaponry (with the Swedish AIM-9L equivalent coming soon likely amplifying that advantage). Giving the JA-37C the AMRAAM at the same time or even before something like the F-4F ICE or just about any Harrier suffers pretty heavily in everything in comparison to the Viggen. So my guess would be that we will see the AMRAAM come to Germany first.

i was not implying that it would receive them before the F-4F ICE. just saying that it should receive them in a similar timeframe

[Gatsby_WT 136]

3 hours ago, Faster_Boiiiii said:

i was not implying that it would receive them before the F-4F ICE. just saying that it should receive them in a similar timeframe

I think the same, sometimes Gaijin adds interesting or overpowered weaponry to nations which do not have large playerbases, in order to milk players into said nation. However this is my personal belief only.

[Valqyrie 1,804]

1 hour ago, PhantomRiderWT said:

I think the same, sometimes Gaijin adds interesting or overpowered weaponry to nations which do not have large playerbases, in order to milk players into said nation. However this is my personal belief only.

You're not alone on that train. It's clearly a marketing strategy and I'm not blaming them for that, at the end of the day they're developing this and many other games for money. But sometimes what they do becomes really funny/ironic/controversial/contradicting (sweden nowadays for example, fairly small community playing that nation and they're receiving some vehicles just because they were "tested" in Sweden which makes no sense at all when they could've brought that tree as "nordic" or something like that idk) or whatever you call it while many other nations just get nothing. But after a while that happens to another nation and people rush there to get new shiny toys which in turn means more bought premium vehicles and premium time.

[DracoMindC 317]

What sources were used for the Thrust values of the motors? I didn't see any of that info in the listed sources

[spacenavy90 1,402]

2 hours ago, DracoMindC said:

What sources were used for the Thrust values of the motors? I didn't see any of that info in the listed sources

 

The source for the AIM-120C-5 thrust came from: "AIM-120C-5 Performance Assessment for DCS Enhancement Revision 2 - Tyrell, Funk, Marton" which is in the sources.

For the life of me I can not remember where the boost-sustain motor thrust numbers came from. If I recall I will let you know. It is possible they came from DCS World values.

[spacenavy90 1,402]

With the recent unconfirmed leak list showing some of the new aircraft possibly coming in the next patch, one of the is notably the JA-37D Viggen upgrade. This variant notably integrated the AIM-120B AMRAAM (Rb99 in Swedish service). Unless I'm missing one, this will be the first aircraft added to the game with full AMRAAM capability. Now assuming the leak is true, will the missile come this patch? I would probably say no and it would only get the AIM-9L Swedish equivalent. However no one expected the F-14A to get its AIM-54 Phoenix on release either, yet it did.

 

Either way however, the addition of the JA-37D signals to me that AMRAAM is much closer to game integration than I think most of us realize. If it isn't included this patch then I think we can expect to see it within the next year.

 

[Gatsby_WT 136]

2 hours ago, spacenavy90 said:

With the recent unconfirmed leak list showing some of the new aircraft possibly coming in the next patch, one of the is notably the JA-37D Viggen upgrade. This variant notably integrated the AIM-120B AMRAAM (Rb99 in Swedish service). Unless I'm missing one, this will be the first aircraft added to the game with full AMRAAM capability. Now assuming the leak is true, will the missile come this patch? I would probably say no and it would only get the AIM-9L Swedish equivalent. However no one expected the F-14A to get its AIM-54 Phoenix on release either, yet it did.

 

Either way however, the addition of the JA-37D signals to me that AMRAAM is much closer to game integration than I think most of us realize. If it isn't included this patch then I think we can expect to see it within the next year.

 

Could be the British FGR.2 situation but fingers crossed nevertheless.

[warthogboy09 196]

3 hours ago, spacenavy90 said:

With the recent unconfirmed leak list showing some of the new aircraft possibly coming in the next patch, one of the is notably the JA-37D Viggen upgrade. This variant notably integrated the AIM-120B AMRAAM (Rb99 in Swedish service). Unless I'm missing one, this will be the first aircraft added to the game with full AMRAAM capability. Now assuming the leak is true, will the missile come this patch? I would probably say no and it would only get the AIM-9L Swedish equivalent. However no one expected the F-14A to get its AIM-54 Phoenix on release either, yet it did.

 

Either way however, the addition of the JA-37D signals to me that AMRAAM is much closer to game integration than I think most of us realize. If it isn't included this patch then I think we can expect to see it within the next year.

 

The F-4s were in game for how many years before AIM-7s, RWR, CMs and ballistic computers? Combine that with all of the functionality they are still missing, a vehicles ability to carry ordinance is no indication that we will see said ordinance. Or you can look at the F-4F and Gaijins stance on using ordinance as a balancing tool. I doubt we will see AMRAAMs/R-77s until the F-15 and Su-27 have had at least a patch without them present 

[BagelIsMyWaifu 838]

3 minutes ago, warthogboy09 said:

The F-4s were in game for how many years before AIM-7s, RWR, CMs and ballistic computers?

1 year for AIM-7 (September 2019 for F-4C, September 2020 for AIM-7). Flares were available since the F-4E got added (March 2020), chaff one year later (March 2021)

Ballistic computers was also March 2020, so 6 months after the F-4C

[warthogboy09 196]

1 minute ago, BagelIsMyWaifu said:

1 year for AIM-7 (September 2019 for F-4C, September 2020 for AIM-7). Flares were available since the F-4E got added (March 2020), chaff one year later (March 2021)

Ballistic computers was also March 2020, so 6 months after the F-4C

"Obvious rhetorical question"

 

Ah yes look! There it goes sailing right over your head

[spacenavy90 1,402]

23 minutes ago, warthogboy09 said:

The F-4s were in game for how many years before AIM-7s, RWR, CMs and ballistic computers? Combine that with all of the functionality they are still missing, a vehicles ability to carry ordinance is no indication that we will see said ordinance. Or you can look at the F-4F and Gaijins stance on using ordinance as a balancing tool. I doubt we will see AMRAAMs/R-77s until the F-15 and Su-27 have had at least a patch without them present 

 

If you actually read my comment you would know that I don't expect AMRAAM to come this update, rather that the inclusion of the JA-37D specifically indicates we could see it in the next year.

I am fully aware of Gaijin's approach to weapons balancing.

[Fireraid233 4,274]

Personally I don't expect them yet not even this year. We are starting with Gen 4s that only have IR missiles first, then they will start to add sparrow and similar type capable gen 4 aircraft with the pinnacle being AIM-7Ms THEN I think by 2024 we will start to receive aircraft and upgrades to existing ones with AMRAAMs. But then again it's gaijin so who knows what they have in store.

[spacenavy90 1,402]

2 minutes ago, Fireraid233 said:

Personally I don't expect them yet not even this year. We are starting with Gen 4s that only have IR missiles first, then they will start to add sparrow and similar type capable gen 4 aircraft with the pinnacle being AIM-7Ms THEN I think by 2024 we will start to receive aircraft and upgrades to existing ones with AMRAAMs. But then again it's gaijin so who knows what they have in store.

 

Well we only have 1 month left for this year, so I'm with you there.

Plenty of people have their own ideas for what Gaijin may or may not do. This is just my personal opinion based on what I see. We don't even know if the JA-37D is actually coming this update or not.

[Fireraid233 4,274]

2 minutes ago, spacenavy90 said:

 

Well we only have 1 month left for this year, so I'm with you there.

Plenty of people have their own ideas for what Gaijin may or may not do. This is just my personal opinion based on what I see. We don't even know if the JA-37D is actually coming this update or not.

My bad I meant 2023 to me 2022 already feels like it's over lol.

Edited December 3, 2022 by Fireraid233

[Aetreus 61]

18 minutes ago, Fireraid233 said:

Personally I don't expect them yet not even this year. We are starting with Gen 4s that only have IR missiles first, then they will start to add sparrow and similar type capable gen 4 aircraft with the pinnacle being AIM-7Ms THEN I think by 2024 we will start to receive aircraft and upgrades to existing ones with AMRAAMs. But then again it's gaijin so who knows what they have in store.

AIM-7M get's talked up and I'm not sure why. It has the same kinematics as an AIM-7F and the only difference is it might have inertial guidance, but AIM-7F has such a long seeker range that this will hardly ever matter. It's not until AIM-7MH and AIM-7P that you get actual useful features ingame like loft behavior and datalink guidance, and those are only likely to matter if maps get bigger. Gaijin might give the 7M a better notch but that's not a huge deal.

[warthogboy09 196]

10 minutes ago, Aetreus said:

Gaijin might give the 7M a better notch but that's not a huge deal.

It's not a huge deal right now. But when they are being guided by radars that are better than what is in game currently it will be. We will reach a point where you won't be able to feasibly notch the aircrafts radar anymore and instead have to beat the missiles capabilities. 

[MaMoran20@psn 198]

53 minutes ago, warthogboy09 said:

We will reach a point where you won't be able to feasibly notch the aircrafts radar anymore and instead have to beat the missiles capabilities. 

As it should be. Its crazy that even a simple angle dependent rcs or signal/noise ratio hasn't been put yet. When you typically notch, you show your underside. Which has an rcs waaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy larger than frontal section(on a beam it has less y's). If the target is not flying close to the ground(or lookdown angle isn't large)the signal may be larger than the MLC noise. Thus it might be above the S/N threshold

Edited December 3, 2022 by MaMoran20@psn

[Faster_Boiiiii 753]

6 hours ago, spacenavy90 said:

With the recent unconfirmed leak list showing some of the new aircraft possibly coming in the next patch, one of the is notably the JA-37D Viggen upgrade.

and thats exactly why the list is fake.

i just cannot imagine gaijin introducing the AIM-120B right now. they might add the 37D just for the aim-9L but thats kind kind of a ***** move because those can just be added to the C variant instead.

now. i do agree that amraams aren't that far away(especially early ones) but i would expect them to be introduced on something like the F-4F ICE instead for *obvious reasons*(sweden lol)

[spacenavy90 1,402]

41 minutes ago, Faster_Boiiiii said:

and thats exactly why the list is fake.

i just cannot imagine gaijin introducing the AIM-120B right now. they might add the 37D just for the aim-9L but thats kind kind of a ***** move because those can just be added to the C variant instead.

now. i do agree that amraams aren't that far away(especially early ones) but i would expect them to be introduced on something like the F-4F ICE instead for *obvious reasons*(sweden lol)

 

I don't necessarily believe that the list is fake (at least most of it) but the addition of the JA-37D only to give it AIM-9L would indeed be a dumb move in my opinion. Unless Gaijin is going to pull a fast one of everyone and ACTUALLY give it Rb99 (AIM-120B) which would be insane...

[Faster_Boiiiii 753]

9 minutes ago, spacenavy90 said:

 

I don't necessarily believe that the list is fake (at least most of it) but the addition of the JA-37D only to give it AIM-9L would indeed be a dumb move in my opinion. Unless Gaijin is going to pull a fast one of everyone and ACTUALLY give it Rb99 (AIM-120B) which would be insane...

i'd be very happy about a viggen with amraams, yknow, so its competitive again

but any rationally minded individual will understand that its just not really the time yet

[spacenavy90 1,402]

AIM-120A was found by Olivia is some kind of leak/datamine/non-datamine?

Unsure what this means, but here we are.

 

JA-37D was also confirmed, which the only real difference between it and the JA-37C is the ability to fire AIM-120 AMRAAMs (Rb99, actually 120B models).

Also of note, is that the Italian F-16 ADF were compatible and ONLY used AIM-120s, not Sparrows.

ROC had AMRAAMs around the F-16 block 20, but never used them.

 

Could we actually get AMRAAM this patch?

 

 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2022 by spacenavy90