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The F-4E Kurnass 2000, Turning Old Into New


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Kurnass 2000  

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  1. 1. Would you like to see the Kurnass 2000 come to War Thunder

    • Yes
      105
    • No (explain why in the replies)
      5
  2. 2. What BR would you like to see the Kurnass 2000 come at

    • 11.0
      11
    • 11.3
      57
    • 11.7
      28
    • 12.0
      8
    • I don't want it added
      6
  3. 3. Would you like the Kurnass 2000 to be added sooner with nerfed loadouts like the F-4EJ Kai was

    • Yes
      73
    • No
      37


 Kurnass1.png.833e6c10ff5dc50976faa4ad420 Kurnass2.jpg.7d4d22abf6e03a9a6ae4f2cdcdc

Kurnass 2000 Introduction:

The F-4E Kurnass 2000 is a Israeli upgrade to the American F-4E Phantom II, or Kurnass (Hebrew: Hammer) as it was known in Israel. The Kurnass 2000 upgrade was meant to extend the service life of existing F-4Es in IAF service. While this aircraft is often confused with the IAI Super Phantom, which was the original upgrade plane before it was decided to only upgrade avionics, however it is more akin to the Japanese F-4EJ Kai upgrade to their F-4Es.

 

1822554936_KurnassTGP.jpg.fc10ccb869f96f <--- Kurnass 2000 with 500Ib MK82 LDGBs and a AVQ-23 PAVE TRACK TV/LASER targeting pod

 

History of Israel's quest for American aircraft and the F-4E in Israeli service:

In the 1960's the IAF was looking for a multirole fighter bomber that could perform air to air missions and air to ground missions with good success. In June, 1964 the IAF offered to purchase F-4 Phantom IIs, however this never came to light as the U.S had made it clear the F-4 Phantom II was not for sale. Instead Prime Minister Eshkol inquired about the possible purchase of A-4 Skyhawks or A-6 Intruders, however the A-6 was not an option as the Johnson Administration like with the F-4 Phantom II made it clear the A-6 was not for sale. So the Israelis settled for the A-4 Skyhawk and the deal would finally be cemented in 1966 with the first aircraft arriving in 1967. However after the 6 day war the U.S would prove to be a very important ally to Israel as unlike the United Kingdom and France, they were not as dependent on middle eastern oil. Also after the 6 day war American public support for Israel was very high and with the 1968 presidential election coming up U.S presidential candidates wanted to capitalize on this public support and Presidential candidate Richard Nixon promised if elected, he would sell Israel not only Skyhawks but also the F-4 Phantoms. It was only natural the Johnson Administration would try to one up this promise and quickly approve the sale of 50 F-4E Phantom IIs to Israel. This was monumental at the time with the F-4E Phantom II being the most advanced U.S fighter jet at the time. In September 1969, the first F-4Es would arrive. The F-4E would enter service with No 201 Squadron and at first only had 10 pilots trained for the aircraft (6 pilots and 4 navigators). On November 11th, 1969 IAF Kurnass 608 (then known as Kurnass 08) scored the first air to air kill with a IAF Kurnass, launching a AIM-9B Sidewinder at a afterburning Egyptian MiG-21. With this the F-4E would launch its career with the IAF running a variety of missions. One of the most popular missions for the Kurnass was SEAD, which the aircraft was very effective for. The 2nd batch of Israeli Phantoms would arrive with Operation Peace Echo II and III in 1970, followed by Peace Patch in 1971, then Peace Echo IV in 1972/73, then Nickel Grass during Yom Kippur in 1973, and finally Peace Echo V in 1974-1977. By the end of this Israel had a total of 204 F-4Es that had been acquired. Between November 1969 and June 1982, the F-4E Kurnass would be credited with 116.5 kills, with the final kill being scored with a Python 3 Air-to-Air Missile against a MiG-21 during the Lebanon War. Starting in the early 80's F-4s in the IAF would lose their Air-to-Air role and the AIM-7 Sparrow munition would be withdrawn from Kurnass squadrons. However now that the plane was 100% for Air-to-Ground, the Sparrow wells could be converted to new uses. In 1984 the first of these rail conversions would be done, with the ability to mount AIM-9 Sidewinders or Python 3 AAMs in the forward Sparrow wells. The rear sparrow wells would also be able to hold 192 extra Countermeasures as the Israelis had found the ALE-40 dispensers not sufficient enough in heavily defended airspace.

 

Kurnass4.jpg.6bc66f58f2fa36d72a4fd5ab952 <--- Kurnass 2000 afterburning

 

Development of the Kurnass 2000:

The IAF had considered the F-4E Kurnass fit to stay in service for a very long time with the necessary upgrades and modernizations. The IAF started the "Kurnass 2000" project with the goal of modernizing the F-4E to keep it in service for many more years. IAI would start a "Super Phantom" project with the biggest improvement being to replace the J79 engines with PW1120 engines which drastically improved performance and first flew in 1986, however in 1987 for economical reasons the project would be shelved. Instead it was decided to do a primarily avionics upgrade to the Kurnass. These changes would include: A replacement of electrical wiring, replacement of hydraulic conduit network, replacement of internal fuel tanks, a new navigation system including TCAM, new instruments, display screens, new indicators, and the state of the art wide angle Kaiser viewing screen HUD and advanced weaponry computer. However the most notable change would have to be the addition of the AN/APG-76 multimode radar. This at the time was a extremely advanced radar carried in a external pod by F-16s in the U.S with a SAR-MTI mode. The rearward semi recessed sparrow bays could also be equipped with extra countermeasures dispensers adding a additional 192 countermeasures, in total giving the Kurnass 2000 a total of 282 countermeasures.  All of these upgrades together effectively made the F-4E Kurnass 2000 a new aircraft. The first prototype would take off on July 15th, 1987. The first production aircraft would be introduced in April, 1989 and the Kurnass 2000 would remain in service until 2004 when they were finally retired from service. 

image_2022-07-02_212942337.png.5fbc4e169 <--- Kurnass 2000 with APG-76 radar shown

 

Gallery:

Spoiler

Kurnass3.jpg.ae748e4c622335843a0f0073b8a<--- 4 Kurnass 2000s fly in Formation

 

refueling.jpg.7b59d0d69afa561a49eb0ac9fe <--- Kurnass 2000 refueling

 

image_2022-07-02_213319448.png.a9d0604dd <--- Kurnass 2000 prototype "001"

 

image_2022-07-05_121846206.png.d9cfc245c <--- Cockpit of F-4E Kurnass 2000

 

image_2022-07-02_224600206.png.2f9cb74c7 <--- Visual Produced by SAR-MTI mode on AN/APG-76 radar tracking a taxiing aircraft

 

1190101204_Kurnass2000extraCM.jpg.872db6 <--- Extra countermeasure dispensers in aft sparrow bay

 

920250330_Kurnass2000cockpit.jpg.d3fca49 <--- Kurnass 2000 cockpit whole

 

Specifications

 

Classification: Two seat multi-task fighter

 

Country of Origin: Israel

 

Length: 19.20 m

 

Height: 5.00 m

 

Wing Span: 11.68 m

 

Wing Area: 49.24 sq. m

 

Engines: 2x General Electric J79-GE-17 engines with thrusts of 11,870 lbf (52.8 kN) dry and 17,900 lbf (80 kN) with afterburner

 

Max Speed: 2,371 kph

 

Climb Rate: 208 m/s

 

Max Altitude: 58,750 ft (17,907 m)

 

Range: 2,590 km with a attack range of 492 km

 

Weight: Empty: 13,780 kg, Max loaded: 28,030 kg

 

 

Armaments

 

Air-to-Air Missiles: 6x AIM-9B/D/G/H/L Sidewinders, 6x Python-3s, 4x AIM-7D/E/E2/F Sparrows ( NOTE: By the time the Kurnass 2000 upgrade occured the AIM-7 Sparrow was already no longer used by F-4s however they can still mount them without modification, the F-4s just were no longer being used for Air-to-Air by the mid 80's )

 

Air-to-Ground Missiles: 6x AGM-65A/B/D/E Mavericks, 2x AGM-142 POPEYE Stand off Air-to-Surface Missile, 4x AGM-45A Shrike, 2x AGM-78A Standard ARM, 4x AGM-88 HARM

 

Bombs: MK-82/MK-83/MK-84 LDGPs, Various CBUs, GBU-10/12/15/16/24

 

Pods: ALQ-71, ALQ-72, ALQ-87, ALQ-101, ALQ-119, ALQ-13, ALQ-23 Pave Spike TV/Laser Targeting pod.

 

Countermeasures: 90 Countermeasures on inner board wing pylons, and a addition 192 countermeasures on aft sparrow bays for a potential grand total of 282 countermeasures.

 

Radar: AN/APG-76 Multimode Pulse Doppler X-Band Radar which has a SAR-GMTI mode able to create high quality representations of the terrain with electromagnetic waves a great advantage of this system is that compared with systems that are based on optical equipment, the picture quality remains good, even in bad weather. The radar has a max instrumented range of 185 km. Max detection and track range of fighter sized targets is 75km. Antenna coverages up to +/- 60 degrees in azimuth and +/- 30 degrees in elevation. Has multiple ACM modes.

 

Additional Notes: Comparable to the Japanese EJ Kai, the F-4E Kurnass 2000 has a stronger radar and the Agile Eagle Slats which helped improve the Phantom's maneuverability.

 

Sources:

Spoiler

Lavi by John W. Golan

Israeli Weapons

The F-4E Phantom II Kurnass by Amos Dor

Aeroflight

Israeli F-4 Phantom II Aces by Shlomo Aloni

Interferometric radar imaging using the AN/APG-76 radar

ADAPTATION OF AN/APG-76 MULTIMODE RADAR TO THE SMUGGLING INTERDICTION MISSION

Israeli Phantoms Books 1 and 2 by Shlomo Aloni and Andreas Klein 

 

 

 

Edited by DracoMindC
New cockpit image, added source of book used
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  • Suggestion Moderator

2 corrections that should be pointed out in regards to this aircraft:

  1. The designation IAI F-4E Kurnass 2000 is wrong. As said in your own words and reaffirmed with my own reading into this aircraft's development history, IAI developed the "Super Phantom" with the upgraded engines, but the Kurnass 2000 upgrade was an in-house upgrade conducted by the Israeli Air Force itself with the equipment squadron of the Israeli Air Force's technical branch heading the development. Seeing as the upgrade wasn't really dealt with by a "company" per-se, and definitely not IAI, a more appropriate designation would be to leave it as the McDonnell Douglas F-4E Kurnass 2000.
  2. The cockpit you have included, as you yourself mentioned, is not one of a Kurnass 2000 but rather a different upgrade program. After digging around the internet a bit I found a picture taken from this book supposedly: https://www.scalemates.com/nl/books/israeli-phantoms-ultimate-f-4-phantom-ii-collection-1-andreas-klein-shlomo-aloni--105572 which should be the forward cockpit of a Kurnass 2000:
    Spoiler

    689225271_Kurnass2000cockpit.png.2e3e044

    Also as a bonus the rear cockpit, supposedly from the same book:

    Spoiler

    1414192372_kurnass2000rearcockpit.png.38

    You may want to replace the cockpit you have posted to avoid any potential confusion.

With all of that said and done, open for discussion. :fixsnail:

Edited by yoyolast
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2 hours ago, yoyolast said:

2 corrections that should be pointed out in regards to this aircraft:

  1. The designation IAI F-4E Kurnass 2000 is wrong. As said in your own words and reaffirmed with my own reading into this aircraft's development history IAI developed the "Super Phantom" with the upgraded engines, but the Kurnass 2000 upgrade was an in-house upgrade conducted by the Israeli Air Force itself with the equipment squadron of the Israeli Air Force's technical branch heading the development. Seeing as the upgrade wasn't really dealt with by a "company" per-se, and definitely not IAI, a more appropriate designation would be to leave it as the McDonnell Douglas F-4E Kurnass 2000.
  2. The cockpit you have included, as you yourself mentioned, is not one of a Kurnass 2000 but rather a different upgrade program. After digging around the internet a bit I found a picture taken from this book supposedly: https://www.scalemates.com/nl/books/israeli-phantoms-ultimate-f-4-phantom-ii-collection-1-andreas-klein-shlomo-aloni--105572 which should be the forward cockpit of a Kurnass 2000:
    Hide contents

    Also as a bonus the rear cockpit, supposedly from the same book:

    Hide contents

    You may want to replace the cockpit you have posted to avoid any potential confusion.

With all of that said and done, open for discussion. :fixsnail:

will do :salute:

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  • DracoMindC changed the title to The F-4E Kurnass 2000, Turning Old into New

this would be pretty neat, but more phantoms might mean it'll become a little outclassed shortly, might have been cooler to get in with the EJ KAI if israel had been out sooner

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7 hours ago, PARDUS IX@live said:

with the engine upgrades, how would it compare to the british phantoms?

the Kurnass 2000 never recieved any engine upgrades it still uses the same engines as the F-4E, all the changes were primarily avionics. The version with upgraded engines never saw service and only 1 prototype flew. 

 link to the suggestion someone made for it if you'd like to see

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+ It's great modern 3rd gen fighter aircraft BR 11.3 to the Israeli air tree and multi-role equipment weapons more options than F-4EJ KAI

Edited by oom1992
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  • 1 month later...
  • 3 weeks later...

+1. If possible, add this to the center branch of the tech tree at 11.3/7, and after the F-15A Baz is added, folder it with the other F-4E, so that people won't see it as just an obstacle to the Eagle. I would love to have this in the tree.

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I'm hoping the Kurnass 2000 is in the cards for a future update, before the Eagle gets added.
I could see it and the F/A-18A coming at around the same time, since both had similar ground strike capability

The Kurnass 2000 would bring a much needed upgrade to the Israeli tree's ground strike capability, and it would also be nice to be able to choose between wanting either the rear Sparrows or extra CMs.

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  • 1 month later...

From what I can tell, the sparrow was never used with the Kurnass 2000, and the AN/APG-76 was never integrated with the sparrow on any platform. For this reason and lack of any evidence to the contrary, I have serious doubts that the Kurnass 2000 could use the sparrow.

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7 hours ago, Godvana said:

From what I can tell, the sparrow was never used with the Kurnass 2000, and the AN/APG-76 was never integrated with the sparrow on any platform. For this reason and lack of any evidence to the contrary, I have serious doubts that the Kurnass 2000 could use the sparrow.

From what I've found, there's no evidence to both support and deny the Kurnass 2000's capability to use Sparrows with the APG-76, si I guess it'd be up to Gaijin to decide

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  • _David_Bowie_ changed the title to The F-4E Kurnass 2000, Turning Old Into New
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