F-4F, AIM-9L

[Smin1080p_WT 60,444]

1 hour ago, BagelIsMyWaifu said:

the EJ Kai gets 4 AIM-9L and additionally 4 AIM-7F and much better radar at 11.3. Just the 9L at 11.0 seems fair to me

 

The EJ Kai is 11.7. 

 

[jd_hog77 332]

1 hour ago, BagelIsMyWaifu said:

the EJ Kai gets 4 AIM-9L and additionally 4 AIM-7F and much better radar at 11.3. Just the 9L at 11.0 seems fair to me

The EJ Kai is 11.7. Smin beat me by 1 sec. 

1 hour ago, Lord_Prism said:

Again, see the A-10, A-6, Su-25 all with all aspect missiles at 10.0

Those are ground attackers. They’re balanced based on their ordnance load out. 

1 hour ago, Cpt_Bel_V said:

The three of them should be 10.3(for premiums A-10 and Su-25) and 10.7 (the A10 late Su25 and A-6E)

They don’t remotely have the performance or ordinance load out to go that high. 

Edited February 11, 2023 by jd_hog77

[BagelIsMyWaifu 838]

4 minutes ago, Smin1080p said:

The EJ Kai is 11.7. 

Just have actually looked it up instead of relying on the wiki preview, my bad

[Cpt_Bel_V 4,790]

3 minutes ago, jd_hog77 said:

They don’t remotely have the performance or ordinance load out to go that high. 

let me laugh for once,...

 

A-10 at 10.7 would largely be feasible, if our community knew how to fly ^^"

 

10.7 ain't much higher and they largely are capable of being that high.

[Smin1080p_WT 60,444]

4 minutes ago, BagelIsMyWaifu said:

Just have actually looked it up instead of relying on the wiki preview, my bad

 

Not sure where that comes from, even on the wiki its correct:

 

Perhaps google hasn't updated recently. 

[Lord_Prism 1,827]

11 minutes ago, jd_hog77 said:

Those are ground attackers. They’re balanced based on their ordnance load out. 

And the F4F is balanced with 4 9Ls, because it only get 4 missiles anyway

[Cpt_Bel_V 4,790]

Just now, Lord_Prism said:

And the F4F is balanced with 4 9Ls, because it only get 4 missiles anyway

Told that to Mirage F.1's,... are they balanced at 11.3? No.

[Thype_2604@psn 8]

Well since the aim-9L got nerfed maybe the f4f can get them now

 

[SrNowel59917 656]

On 11/02/2023 at 17:59, Cpt_Bel_V said:

Told that to Mirage F.1's,... are they balanced at 11.3? No.

well the f1 only really have 2 competent missiles, the super 530 are like chaff seekers

[andrew4444 152]

On 11/02/2023 at 21:58, Lord_Prism said:

And the F4F is balanced with 4 9Ls, because it only get 4 missiles anyway

no its not. and we need jets on 10.3 br. with 9l it will go too 

 11.0 - 11.3

Edited February 16, 2023 by andrew4444

[Faster_Boiiiii 753]

18 minutes ago, andrew4444 said:

no its not. and we need jets on 10.3 br. with 9l it will go too 

 11.0 - 11.3

then move it back to 11.0; dont see the problem here

[SrNowel59917 656]

28 minutes ago, Faster_Boiiiii said:

then move it back to 11.0; dont see the problem here

with aim 9L it would probably be 11.3 it isnt that far off to many others in that br, like the ASA, mirage f1 or the fgr2

[Adamok2 756]

30 minutes ago, SrNowel59917 said:

with aim 9L it would probably be 11.3 it isnt that far off to many others in that br, like the ASA, mirage f1 or the fgr2

Dont forget about 10.0 TRAM

[Cpt_Bel_V 4,790]

3 minutes ago, Adamok2 said:

Dont forget about 10.0 TRAM

F4F is a Mach2 able fighter Bomber,... A-6E is a pure subsonic attackers,...

 

And yet you compare those 2?

[Adamok2 756]

6 hours ago, Cpt_Bel_V said:

F4F is a Mach2 able fighter Bomber,... A-6E is a pure subsonic attackers,...

 

And yet you compare those 2?

The point is that Gaijin refused to add 9L at 11.0 F-4F, because of "Balance decision", but Tram with 4 aim-9L at 10.0 is fine and "Balance decision" doesn't work in this case. Perfect example of duality of Gaijin.

 

Especially when Tram faces also mach 1 jets, but without flares at all in most cases and without  missiles at all or there are some with 2/4 very early, useless missiles like aim-9B.

The same story is with Su-25s and A-10s.

 

Mach 2 jets without flares and missiles and low ammo are useless vs Mach 1 / Sub Mach 1 jets with tons of flares and best / one of the best IR missiles short range AAMs.

Speed doesn't matter when u gonna get a missiles, launched from 2km on your face and avoiding them without flares is quite hard.

So the point is that speed is less important than armament and CMs for defense which are literally must have around BR 10.0 and higher.

Edited February 17, 2023 by Adamok2

[Cpt_Bel_V 4,790]

19 minutes ago, Adamok2 said:

Speed doesn't matter when u gonna get a missiles, launched from 2km on your face and avoiding them without flares is quite hard

Skill issue at this point ^^"

 

I used to played Mirage 5F lately, it only have 2 Magic-1 missiles, no flares/chaffs and just a RWR, while being at 10.3

 

And i can use my speed to be protected from AIM-9L.

 

It's hard to do, but it's clearly possible to dodge such missiles.

[Jεcka 4,618]

7 hours ago, SrNowel59917 said:

with aim 9L it would probably be 11.3 it isnt that far off to many others in that br, like the ASA, mirage f1 or the fgr2

FGR.2 and Mirage F1C both get a higher number of missiles compared to F-4F (8 and 5 versus 4) and both get radar-guided missiles, granted they're not the best of the best but FGR.2 is sitting at 11.3 with AIM-7E2's (or Skyflashes) and they do slap.

 

Due to the upcoming 9L nerfs (they are incredible in fact, I think it's the first time a missile is getting nerfed this hard), I fail to see how having them would force F-4F to be at the same BR as FGR.2 and ASA. That's without mentioning the fact MiG-21Bis sits at 11.0 and somehow everyone forgets they exist with R-60M/MK's. With 9Ls flare-resistance pretty much gone, F-4F and 21Bis can share the same BR easly if the former receives 9Ls.

Edited February 17, 2023 by Holouu

[andrew4444 152]

41 minutes ago, Adamok2 said:

The point is that Gaijin refused to add 9L at 11.0 F-4F, because of "Balance decision", but Tram with 4 aim-9L at 10.0 is fine and "Balance decision" doesn't work in this case. Perfect example of duality of Gaijin.

f-4f as jet is way better. its not only about missile

Edited February 17, 2023 by andrew4444

[ARK_BOI 810]

7 hours ago, Cpt_Bel_V said:

A-6E is a pure subsonic attackers,...

 

Okay then how about we down BR Sea Harrier and GR7 to 10.0? Because you know it sub sonic

[Cpt_Bel_V 4,790]

26 minutes ago, ARK_BOI said:

Okay then how about we down BR Sea Harrier and GR7 to 10.0? Because you know it sub sonic

I never said the aircraft ain't too low,... 

Are you stupid or what?

 

I just said the aircraft can't be compared to F4F,...

[SrNowel59917 656]

1 hour ago, Holouu said:

FGR.2 and Mirage F1C both get a higher number of missiles compared to F-4F (8 and 5 versus 4) and both get radar-guided missiles, granted they're not the best of the best but FGR.2 is sitting at 11.3 with AIM-7E2's (or Skyflashes) and they do slap.

Are you seriously comparing aim 9L with super 530f or r530e, that's hilarious, everything inst about the amounts of missiles the quality of them plays a mayor role... The fgr keeps having just aim9g and skyflashes, even with the nerfs the aim 9L keeps being superior to those, specially knowing how skyflashes aren't really that effective anyways.

Not to mention that there are plenty of planes with just 4 missiles at that tier,  again the ASA, the f1c, kfir, the mirage 2000(ground attack )...

1 hour ago, Holouu said:

Due to the upcoming 9L nerfs (they are incredible in fact, I think it's the first time a missile is getting nerfed this hard), I fail to see how having them would force F-4F to be at the same BR as FGR.2 and ASA. That's without mentioning the fact MiG-21Bis sits at 11.0 and somehow everyone forgets they exist with R-60M/MK's. With 9Ls flare-resistance pretty much gone, F-4F and 21Bis can share the same BR easly if the former receives 9Ls.

Even with the nerfs the r60M keeps being a much more inferior missile, much easier to avoid and keeps having 5° instead of the 4° after lunch that it should have which it would still be larger than the actual FoV of the aim9L, and as for the the flare resistance is the the same as the other all aspect missiles, in fact before was actually the hardest missile to flare even better than the actual magic 2 and...  how is the ASA that much better than a F4F the with aim 9L as you claim? 

 

 

Btw in my opinion the mig 21 bis and the mig 23mld/Mla/ml, needs a br raise, specially the mig 23s

 

[Thodin 6,784]

Dunno whether Aim-9L would change something, especially when the BR is bumped over 11.0 if the F-4F gets L's.

 

I played alot Tornado over the last days and can't remember when I last got a kill with Aim-9L. It gets constantly flared away....most of the kills these days are done by PD radars + Sparrows. 

 

Most kill feeds look like this: Sparrow kill over Sparrowkill over Sparrowkill. Sparrows at long range, Sparrows at high alt, Sparrows directly above the ground, Sparrows as snapshots in fast close range passes... Sparrow Sparrow Sparrow. IR missiles totally seem to have lost its significance. It might well be that we're just fighting for a dead horse here.

Edited February 17, 2023 by Thodin

[Faster_Boiiiii 753]

14 minutes ago, Thodin said:

It gets constantly flared away.

yeah its been like that and is even worse now.

[Evo3s 55]

2 hours ago, Thodin said:

Dunno whether Aim-9L would change something, especially when the BR is bumped over 11.0 if the F-4F gets L's.

 

I played alot Tornado over the last days and can't remember when I last got a kill with Aim-9L. It gets constantly flared away....most of the kills these days are done by PD radars + Sparrows. 

 

Most kill feeds look like this: Sparrow kill over Sparrowkill over Sparrowkill. Sparrows at long range, Sparrows at high alt, Sparrows directly above the ground, Sparrows as snapshots in fast close range passes... Sparrow Sparrow Sparrow. IR missiles totally seem to have lost its significance. It might well be that we're just fighting for a dead horse here.

Yea, same experience for me... The 9L's on my Tornado seem to be flared off a lot more unless they're not paying attention when the motor burns.

 

The F-14's are the biggest threat rn and I hate it how the sparrows are just such good missiles in every situation, headon, long range, medium range. There is nearly no way to dodge the sparrows unless you have a good enough airframe and more than enough distance to get into a notch (but that notch has to be pixel perfect)

[Adamok2 756]

3 hours ago, Thodin said:

Dunno whether Aim-9L would change something, especially when the BR is bumped over 11.0 if the F-4F gets L's.

 

I played alot Tornado over the last days and can't remember when I last got a kill with Aim-9L. It gets constantly flared away....most of the kills these days are done by PD radars + Sparrows. 

 

Most kill feeds look like this: Sparrow kill over Sparrowkill over Sparrowkill. Sparrows at long range, Sparrows at high alt, Sparrows directly above the ground, Sparrows as snapshots in fast close range passes... Sparrow Sparrow Sparrow. IR missiles totally seem to have lost its significance. It might well be that we're just fighting for a dead horse here.

 

Idk why this F-14A is 11.7... it could be ez 12.0 with mig-29 and F-16...