F-4F, AIM-9L

[spacenavy90 1,402]

1 minute ago, Faster_Boiiiii said:

the addition of these missiles in general is not the problem. the problem is the aircraft you introduce them on. which is why it should be obvious that insane airframe + insane missile = bad

 

so i really hope that gaijin understands that good missile + meh airframe = a lot better

 

Well that isn't always the case, take the A-10A early/late which in my opinion are wrecking havoc on lower tiers currently. Great missile (overperforming even) on a meh airframe puts it at a lower BR.

Now this wouldn't necessarily be the case for a hypothetical F-4F ICE and JA37D equipped with AMRAAM since their airframes are much more effective at air-to-air combat than an A-10 is but I just wanted to point that out.

[Faster_Boiiiii 753]

10 minutes ago, spacenavy90 said:

 

Well that isn't always the case, take the A-10A early/late which in my opinion are wrecking havoc on lower tiers currently. Great missile (overperforming even) on a meh airframe puts it at a lower BR.

Now this wouldn't necessarily be the case for a hypothetical F-4F ICE and JA37D equipped with AMRAAM since their airframes are much more effective at air-to-air combat than an A-10 is but I just wanted to point that out.

the difference is that the A-10 airframe itself is way too far behind its weaponry. that difference in performance is much lower on, say, the F-4F ICE or JA 37D. an example of that would also be the Su-25 which has a better airframe than the A-10(in terms of air to air combat capability) and a comparable missile and could easily be placed above the A-10 in BR.

but you also have to keep in mind that those two are attackers and aren't designed to fare well in air to air combat.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Faster_Boiiiii

[MI1494778@live 24]

On 16/12/2022 at 03:28, Faster_Boiiiii said:

the difference is that the A-10 airframe itself is way too far behind its weaponry. that difference in performance is much lower on, say, the F-4F ICE or JA 37D. an example of that would also be the Su-25 which has a better airframe than the A-10(in terms of air to air combat capability) and a comparable missile and could easily be placed above the A-10 in BR.

but you also have to keep in mind that those two are attackers and aren't designed to fare well in air to air combat.

there will be another sea Harrier as squad flight in 10.7BR with 4Xaim9L in next update! then I think is no reason not to give aim9L to F4F 

[Jεcka 4,618]

Guys! We've received a new excuse as to why F-4F still hasn't got 9Ls;

 

 

Now it's about balance... but A-6 with 4 of them at 10.0 is balanced... or Sea Harrier at 10.7 with 4x of them is fine as well. It'd be only unbalanced if F-4F got them.

[ARK_BOI 810]

33 minutes ago, Holouu said:

Guys! We've received a new excuse as to why F-4F still hasn't got 9Ls;

 

 

Now it's about balance... but A-6 with 4 of them at 10.0 is balanced... or Sea Harrier at 10.7 with 4x of them is fine as well. It'd be only unbalanced if F-4F got them.

Balance in my butt it can't even do anything in that BR in both ARB and GRB and don't even fast enough to be a bomb truck

and if it for Balancing. Why F4F have negative K/D rate? if according to stats it does a godlike stuff that can't give it AIM9L? it should have sky rocket K/D rate by now 

Hell I can't even find the way to use it

Edited December 20, 2022 by ARK_BOI

[Jεcka 4,618]

6 minutes ago, ARK_BOI said:

Balance in my butt it can't even do anything in that BR in both ARB and GRB and don't even fast enough to be a bomb truck

and if it for Balancing. Why F4F have negative K/D rate? if according to stats it does a godlike stuff that can't give it AIM9L? it should have sky rocket K/D rate by now 

Hell I can't even find the way to use it

Gaijin will create new reasons and find new excuses to shaft Germany over repeteadly honestly. 

 

At this point they should just admit they haven't played this jet even once.

Edited December 20, 2022 by Holouu

[Thype_2604@psn 8]

How can they even come up with that excuse 

[spacenavy90 1,402]

Yeah, balance... Right...

Literally no reason for it not to have 9Ls by now. Increase the BR if you have to jeez but this jet is so useless currently.

 

Makes me think they plan to pull another JA37D where they add the F4F ICE soon and it will be the variant that gets the 9Ls...

[Lord_Prism 1,827]

17 minutes ago, spacenavy90 said:

Makes me think they plan to pull another JA37D where they add the F4F ICE soon and it will be the variant that gets the 9Ls...

You're probably right, to be introduced in the same update the event MiG-29 is coming in 

[Faster_Boiiiii 753]

thiis is so much fun

 

getting smacked in the face by literally any missile

 

at this rate its going to end up at 10.3

[LeavingCarton1 0]

All I know is that Germany got screwed again having to wait another patch or 2(maybe even longer)  for the same tech that is already in the game! honestly they coulda added the F4F ICE with a nerfed AIM 120 to balance for the patch     

[Dontkev@psn 1,300]

1 hour ago, Faster_Boiiiii said:

thiis is so much fun

 

getting smacked in the face by literally any missile

 

at this rate its going to end up at 10.3

But the F-4F Early is allready 10.3

[Lord_Prism 1,827]

2 hours ago, Dontkev@psn said:

But the F-4F Early is allready 10.3

And it aint doing so hot there either 

[NoodleCup31 8,824]

NO other tech tree has a Rank VII event plane.

Germany has two and now even a Rank VIII.

 

They just make anything that is needed for fleshing out the tree an event vehicle.

 

Meanwhile:
MiG-27 M/K, Su-17 M2/M4, A-7D/E, F8U-2/E

All separate tech tree vehicles

Edited December 21, 2022 by NoodleCup31

[ARK_BOI 810]

8 hours ago, Faster_Boiiiii said:

at this rate its going to end up at 10.3

should be give not getting 9L because it can't do anything at those BR and Early should be 10.0 by now because it has no CM

8 hours ago, LeavingCarton1 said:

All I know is that Germany got screwed again having to wait another patch or 2(maybe even longer)  for the same tech that is already in the game! honestly they coulda added the F4F ICE

Hope so

8 hours ago, LeavingCarton1 said:

nerfed AIM 120 to balance for the patch 

Don't need nerf it can only carry two of them as i remember

[Dontkev@psn 1,300]

1 hour ago, ARK_BOI said:

should be give not getting 9L because it can't do anything at those BR and Early should be 10.0 by now because it has no CM

Yea,  because today if you have no Flares+only Aim-9J's you get just clapped from thise stuff with Aim-9L and R-60M/MK

[NoodleCup31 8,824]

16 hours ago, spacenavy90 said:

F4F ICE soon

That thing's gonna face MiG-29 SMT and Block 50 F-16 upon introduction 

Edited December 21, 2022 by NoodleCup31

[spacenavy90 1,402]

26 minutes ago, NoodleCup31 said:

That thing's gonna face MiG-29 SMT and Block 50 F-16 upon introduction 

 

The Chinese F-16A MLU technically already is a block 50 F-16

[Adamok2 756]

F-4F at 11.0 with 4x Aim-9L facing F-14A at 11.3 with 6x Aim-54A it's totally fine, fair and balanced... No Aim-9Ls for F-4F bc of balance reasons is the stupidest thing ever...

Edited December 21, 2022 by Adamok2

[jd_hog77 332]

46 minutes ago, Adamok2 said:

F-4F at 11.0 with 4x Aim-9L facing F-14A at 11.3 with 6x Aim-54A it's totally fine, fair and balanced... No Aim-9Ls for F-4F bc of balance reasons is the stupidest thing ever...

Aim-54’s are a radar missile, which 90% of F-14 pilots don’t know how to use. While the Aim-9’s are IR missiles. You can’t compare the two. 

[Adamok2 756]

2 hours ago, jd_hog77 said:

Aim-54’s are a radar missile, which 90% of F-14 pilots don’t know how to use. While the Aim-9’s are IR missiles. You can’t compare the two. 

I mean Aim-54 missiles are 10000x stronger than AIM-9J's tracking system doesn't matter when 54's can get u from 10km away and 9J from less than 1km. 

We can compare the general capabilities of both planes and F-14 is infinity times better than F-4F in EVERY SINGLE ASPECT.

Edited December 21, 2022 by Adamok2

[Jεcka 4,618]

" We are carefully reviewing the feedback from players, looking at the statistics and playing ourselves on the new Ranks. At the moment, the statistics are not entirely clear - for example, the MiG-29 is worse than all the F-16s, the American F-16 ADF is the best according to the statistics of the first day with more sorties than the MiG-29, while being exactly the same as the Italian F-16 ADF, which has statistics similar to that of MiG-29 with a much smaller number of sorties (usually the fewer sorties - the less popular the aircraft, the more enthusiastic people play it - the better the statistics)"

 

The devs are aware of the fact that; less players = better players = overinflated statistics, yet, they still depend on those more rather than with direct player feedback when it comes to such vehicles? 

 

They've basically admitted such statistics cannot be trusted wholey (hence in the same "thread" they also talk about listening to player feedback), yet they're using those for the F-4F and denying us its historical loadout despite our feedback being overwhelmingly and collectively negative throughout this entire thread as well as through many of the BR/balancing threads, especially about its outright horrible Air-to-Air performance for months now.

 

Respectfully @Smin1080p but I think this makes it clear, that the problem lies with the method the devs are using to balance not just this jet, but most of the game - they are relying too much on just the statistics and ignoring our collective feedback majority of the time. Hence, may I enquire you to please contact the devs about the extreme issue of how badly neglected this jet (F-4F) is in terms on A-A performance?

 

Please and tank you.

 

 

Edited December 22, 2022 by Holouu

[Smin1080p_WT 60,444]

6 minutes ago, Holouu said:

" We are carefully reviewing the feedback from players, looking at the statistics and playing ourselves on the new Ranks. At the moment, the statistics are not entirely clear - for example, the MiG-29 is worse than all the F-16s, the American F-16 ADF is the best according to the statistics of the first day with more sorties than the MiG-29, while being exactly the same as the Italian F-16 ADF, which has statistics similar to that of MiG-29 with a much smaller number of sorties (usually the fewer sorties - the less popular the aircraft, the more enthusiastic people play it - the better the statistics)"

 

The devs are aware of the fact that; less players = better players = overinflated statistics, yet, they still depend on those more rather than with direct player feedback when it comes to such vehicles? 

 

They've basically admitted such statistics cannot be trusted wholey (hence in the same "thread" they also talk about listening to player feedback), yet they're using those for the F-4F and denying us its historical loadout despite our feedback being overwhelmingly and collectively negative throughout this entire thread as well as through many of the BR/balancing threads, especially about its outright horrible Air-to-Air performance for months now.

 

Respectfully @Smin1080p but I think this makes it clear, that the problem lies with the method the devs are using to balance not just this jet, but most of the game - they are relying too much on just the statistics and ignoring our collective feedback majority of the time. Hence, may I enquire you to please contact the devs about the extreme issue of how badly neglected this jet (F-4F) is in terms on A-A performance?

 

Please and tank you.

 

 

 

Feedback on the matter has been continually passed and we will continue to do so. However at this time, the devs do not wish to provide AIM-9L to the F-4F as that would likely require a BR increase. This was the situation before the patch and the most up to date answer I can provide at this time.

 

The matter of the EJ Kai having them at 11.3 is more likely to lead to that aircraft getting a BR increase. However if the situation changes once we have a clearer view of the statistics we will update the response if there is something to be changed. 

[The_29er 654]

1 hour ago, Smin1080p said:

AIM-9L to the F-4F as that would likely require a BR increase.

I think I know how this is going to go down, its gonna be just like the JA37D.  We are going to see the F4F ICE very soon (with or without amraam) and that plane is going to have 9L while our current peace rhine with stay 11.0 with 9J.

That's the vibe I get, as similar reasons were given for denying 9L (RB74) on the JA37C before the D was added. 

[Jεcka 4,618]

13 hours ago, Smin1080p said:

The matter of the EJ Kai having them at 11.3 is more likely to lead to that aircraft getting a BR increase. However if the situation changes once we have a clearer view of the statistics we will update the response if there is something to be changed. 

EJ Kai will go up because of AIM-7Fs which are currently the best all-around missiles in the game, but it's still funny that Kai and 4F are only 0.3 BR apart while one has a combination of the best IR missile and the best SARH missile in the game and the other is stuck with missiles are second tier and no long-range missiles to top it off - almost as if it screams of OVERCOMPRESSION of BRs. F-4F lacks SARH missiles and is stuck with outdated and mostly ahistorical weaponary at a BR where it's facing 11.7s in ~90% of its matches regardless of it being 11.0 or 11.3

 

Whether F-4F suddenly starts performing good enough to have its BR bumped up with (now nerfed) AIM-9Ls is a different matter wholey, and saying that it'd require a BR bump from the start is quite frankly insulting to us, who are seeing a Sea Harrier at a lower BR with 4x9Ls. First and foremost, the devs should give it 9Ls and see if it even changed its air-to-air performance in any drastic way - before that happens, what are we even talking about. 

 

If they (devs) think F-4F is currently """balanced""" when it comes to Air RB, I am fully willing to start recording my matches with it, just to prove how bad it actually is - because if months upon months of incessant whaling of those who have actually touched this bus (and I fully doubt the dev team has ever played this jet), should be enough of an indication that it's not doing as well as the devs think it is.

Edited December 22, 2022 by Holouu