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Minor nations that could be added to the German air tree to breech the gap between Mig-29 to the Eurofighter


MaggyYolokrau1
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2 hours ago, Cpt_Bel_V said:

Not really,... they're seperated countries,...

That has nothing to do with being a subtree, is Finland a puppet state of the Swedish? 

 

2 hours ago, Cpt_Bel_V said:

Being allies, or even good commercial partners do not ensure the ethnic/cultural ties to be there.

You're right, being culturally and lingually similar does that. Lo and behold, Austria and Switzerland are primarily German speaking, and those two along with Denmark and the Majority of the Netherlands can be called Germanic rather easily and identifiably.

 

2 hours ago, Cpt_Bel_V said:

The ethnicity of european nations, regarding the late 19th century, and all the 20th, make it clear that germany do not have a complex ethnical, cultural ties with such countries, some only appeared to be allied with it, to avoid being reduced by Germany itself (Netherlands fought off the German in WW2, Switzerland did protected frontiers from any german which crossed borders,as well as french or american doing the same, Denmark was still under it's violent defeat from 1864 did not participate and let germans going through it's borders, to invade norway or use it's navy against U-K) or for others and historical politic/militaristic reason (like Austria as Austrian Empire)

And yet the ROC and the PRC are in the same tree, two nations who have rather poor relations and have been in a low level conflict/cold war for decades share the same tree 

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3 minutes ago, Lord_Prism said:

That has nothing to do with being a subtree, is Finland a puppet state of the Swedish? 

 

They're historically more linked, than not during the last 150years,... 

 

4 minutes ago, Lord_Prism said:

You're right, being culturally and lingually similar does that. Lo and behold, Austria and Switzerland are primarily German speaking, and those two along with Denmark and the Majority of the Netherlands can be called Germanic rather easily and identifiably.

Not all people would agree on that... 

4 minutes ago, Lord_Prism said:

And yet the ROC and the PRC are in the same tree, two nations who have rather poor relations and have been in a low level conflict/cold war for decades share the same tree

Which is completely xxxx, making it more an International techtree than purely china one,... 

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1 hour ago, Cpt_Bel_V said:

They're historically more linked, than not during the last 150years,... 

 

Not all people would agree on that... 

Which is completely xxxx, making it more an International techtree than purely china one,... 

I know at least one Finnish person who was not a fan of the tree going into the Swedish tree.

 

like it or not, the China tree thing happened.

Edited by CodyBlues
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8 hours ago, Evo3s said:

The Dutch and Germany are heavily working together and have developed some vehicles together so it would only seem reasonable to add the Dutch as a subtree, and I as a Dutchie can tell you I really wouldn't mind to see it going into the German tree, the Dutch are by far not a big army nor do we have much equipment (for sure during ww2), so that's why it would best just be added to Germany

We are actually completely integrating our combat units into the Bundeswehr:

 

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2 hours ago, Cpt_Bel_V said:

Not all people would agree on that...

But most would, which is what counts 

 

2 hours ago, Cpt_Bel_V said:

Which is completely xxxx, making it more an International techtree than purely china one,... 

Well the precedent is there, you cant put the snake back inside the can

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18 hours ago, Holouu said:

We are actually completely integrating our combat units into the Bundeswehr:

 

 

This is neat and would open up all kinds of possibilities for top tier Germany for ground forces, but how would this air forces? The article is pay walled.

 

23 hours ago, _Iluminas_ said:

Would that not make Polish modernised Mig 29 possible

 

I wouldn't be against it but it feels like a stretch, like one too many connections. Is there precedence in the game for this?

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After PRC and ROC are in the same Tech Tree, imho everything is possible. 

(Wounder what they do when it turns hot in 2 or 3 years.)

 

So Ger, NL, PL, DK, CZ, CH, A wouldn't be an issue after that.

 

 

Edited by Thodin
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4 minutes ago, Thodin said:

Wounder what they do when it turns hot in 2 or 3 years.)

And given I imagine a Ukrainian subtree was in the works for the USSR before certain...events happened, it would be even more of a precedent 

 

21 minutes ago, Ghost_Xiphidion said:

I wouldn't be against it but it feels like a stretch, like one too many connections. Is there precedence in the game for this?

I have to agree, plus if the NL or a similar nation made it to game then another Fulcrum wouldn't be as necessary 

Edited by Lord_Prism
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1 hour ago, Ghost_Xiphidion said:

 

This is neat and would open up all kinds of possibilities for top tier Germany for ground forces, but how would this air forces? The article is pay walled.

 

 

I wouldn't be against it but it feels like a stretch, like one too many connections. Is there precedence in the game for this?

I mean most of the German Mig29s got sold to Poland for 1€

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1 hour ago, Ghost_Xiphidion said:

 

This is neat and would open up all kinds of possibilities for top tier Germany for ground forces, but how would this air forces? The article is pay walled.

 

it's the land forces iirc, but i don't see how an extraordinary measure taken in the past few days in the context of the war in ukraine is relevant to a war thunder tech tree, it doesn't justify anything imo

imagine if france wasn't in war thunder yet and the french army decided to merge its forces with the german army, would that justify a french subtree into germany?

it's completely forgetting about world war 2 and it's a shame because almost all original dutch planes are from this era and a lot would go to waste.

once again don't get me wrong, i'm not against adding a foreign F-16 or something to germany, but it's not worth adding an entire subtree and ruining what the netherlands could've been just for an F-16

Edited by mr_boo
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5 minutes ago, mr_boo said:

 

it's the land forces iirc, but i don't see how an extraordinary measure taken in the past few days in the context of the war in ukraine is relevant to a war thunder tech tree, it doesn't justify anything imo

imagine if france wasn't in war thunder yet and the french army decided to merge its forces with the german army, would that justify a french subtree into germany?

 

This is a pair of silly logical fallacies. We have precedence in the game of various military integrations (especially in the German tree with its allies who were integrated in the German command in World War 2). Does it need to be a sub tree? No. A couple of vehicles to fill gaps? Absolutely.

 

Personally I don't think a common sense NL integration would fill any gaps that would otherwise be missing in the modern German military, so this is all academic for me, but yes ... Gaijin should be looking for every stretch possible to add vehicles to the game that helps Tech Tree's increase their capability.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, mr_boo said:

it's completely forgetting about world war 2 and it's a shame because almost all original dutch planes are from this era and a lot would go to waste.

*Looks at the Chinese TT with the ROC and PRC in the same tree* 

*Looks at the South African subtreetree after the Boer wars*

I don't get what your hate boner for Germany is, but the argument of "well I don't think it should be a subtree" isn't all that compelling. A Benelux tree would be more C&P than China with a few unique low tier planes and mostly foreign equipment post ww-2

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1 minute ago, Lord_Prism said:

I don't get what your hate boner for Germany is

i'm a german main.

1 minute ago, Lord_Prism said:

but the argument of "well I don't think it should be a subtree" isn't all that compelling.

if you think so

1 minute ago, Lord_Prism said:

A Benelux tree would be more C&P than China with a few unique low tier planes and mostly foreign equipment post ww-2

that is factually wrong

4 minutes ago, Ghost_Xiphidion said:

 

This is a pair of silly logical fallacies. We have precedence in the game of various military integrations (especially in the German tree with its allies who were integrated in the German command in World War 2). Does it need to be a sub tree? No. A couple of vehicles to fill gaps? Absolutely.

 

Personally I don't think a common sense NL integration would fill any gaps that would otherwise be missing in the modern German military, so this is all academic for me, but yes ... Gaijin should be looking for every stretch possible to add vehicles to the game that helps Tech Tree's increase their capability.

 

 

sure, but they could grab an F-16 from a nation that doesn't have enough original vehicles to make a tree so that there's no waste, or simply other tornados or the F-4F ICE!

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1 minute ago, mr_boo said:

i'm a german main.

Good for you

 

2 minutes ago, mr_boo said:

if you think so

You seem to think so

 

2 minutes ago, mr_boo said:

that is factually wrong

Do tell, given the Netherlands used almost exclusively foreign tanks and aircraft post WW-2 like most small european nations , the Belgians did the same thing

6 minutes ago, mr_boo said:

but they could grab an F-16 from a nation that doesn't have enough original vehicles to make a tree

Like the Netherlands or Denmark Hmm?

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2 minutes ago, mr_boo said:

i'm a german main.

if you think so

that is factually wrong

sure, but they could grab an F-16 from a nation that doesn't have enough original vehicles to make a tree so that there's no waste, or simply other tornados or the F-4F ICE!

 

Early Eurofighters that Germany used would be better addition than late F-16's that NL currently use, which would be the equivalent of F-16C/D Block 50/52. I'm not necessarily against Germany getting that, but they won't really need it by the time we get to that power level, if we ever get there to begin with. 

 

This is of course assuming we're justifying it with the planned integration of NL units. You would have to use the vehicles that are being utilized at the integration, not past ones. I don't think a modern integration of armies would justify a subtree of past vehicles.

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29 minutes ago, Lord_Prism said:

You seem to think so

to think what

29 minutes ago, Lord_Prism said:

Do tell, given the Netherlands used almost exclusively foreign tanks and aircraft post WW-2 like most small european nations , the Belgians did the same thing

post WW2 there are the dutch leopard 2s and a few leopard 1s (some are modified though) but a lot of the rest are either original or heavy modifications, such as the cockerill turrets present on a leopard 1 hull, on piranhas, on boxers and on the CV90105, there are belgian COBRA light tanks, Sibmas and YP-408 IFVs, the JPK 90 is a JPz 4-5 with a laser rangefinder, etc... there's plenty of original stuff

29 minutes ago, Lord_Prism said:

Like the Netherlands or Denmark Hmm?

sure like a danish F-16! 

Edited by mr_boo
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25 minutes ago, mr_boo said:

, such as the cockerill turrets present on a leopard 1 hull, on piranhas, on boxers and on the CV90105

All foreign vehicle hulls 

 

26 minutes ago, mr_boo said:

there are belgian COBRA light tanks, Sibmas and YP-408 IFVs

So the only truly original vehicles are some light tanks and APCs?

 

26 minutes ago, mr_boo said:

sure like a danish F-16!

The Netherlands makes more sense 

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4 minutes ago, Lord_Prism said:

All foreign vehicle hulls 

hurr durr foreign hull iz copy paste11!!1!!!

4 minutes ago, Lord_Prism said:

The Netherlands makes more sense 

i don't see how and why you're so stubborn with wasting dutch vehicles when the danish F-16 perfectly solves this thread's problem

6 minutes ago, Lord_Prism said:

So the only truly original vehicles are some light tanks and APCs?

kind of, the COBRA 90 could be considered a very lightly armored MBT

same case with sweden. does it make it a bad tree?

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2 hours ago, mr_boo said:

i don't see how and why you're so stubborn with wasting dutch vehicles when the danish F-16 perfectly solves this thread's problem

 

Because the Swedish mains would have a fit if Germany got Scandinavian aircraft... And besides, Germany is much closer military to the Netherlands than it is to Denmark.

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Independant BeNeLux tree for the win!

Germany doesn't need any subtree nore have the space for it. Your top tier jets will be okay with the Mig 29 being a more modern version fo the one currently ingame before the EF comes in as the pinacle of your tree, especially counting on variants/upgrades from early to late. So you'll be alright, just be patient.

BeNeLux together have a lot of unique things to propose for cold war aswell, and no need to be pedantic and contemptuous about the C&P or variants made upon foreign designs, remember Germany have to relies heavily on those too, like f-104, F4, M-48, BMPs, etc

And China tree is a bad example here, 'cause both PRC and ROC claim there is only one China, aswell as South Africa who (imo) should get their own tree, something like the Israeli tree got, and leting some space for light tanks actualy designed and made in or by the UK

Edited by Abaddon75
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3 hours ago, mr_boo said:

hurr durr foreign hull iz copy paste11!!1!!!

Pretty much yes, and thats why a Benelux tree likely won't see the light of day. Israel was Gaijins last independant tree, with unique modifications saved for subtrees and event vehicles 

 

3 hours ago, mr_boo said:

i don't see how and why you're so stubborn with wasting dutch vehicles when the danish F-16 perfectly solves this thread's problem

You seem to be the stubborn one sticking your fingers in your ears saying "Lalalala I'm not listening" to any reason that the Netherlands makes more sense both militarily and culturally 

 

3 hours ago, mr_boo said:

same case with sweden. does it make it a bad tree?

Its certainly not a unique tree, and with update Copy&Paste it certainly didn't get any better 

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3 minutes ago, Lord_Prism said:

Israel was Gaijins last independant tree, with unique modifications saved for subtrees and event vehicles 

Do you have sources for such claim? 

 

To be honest. This topic shouldn't even exist. Germany could get F-4 ICE, two Tornado variants, Alha jet and it's variants, MiG-29G and Eurofighter Typhoons. That's a load of planes. More isn't needed at all.

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Just now, Colerend said:

Do you have sources for such claim? 

Its my educated guess, given most countries left to add use almost entirely foreign equipment or only have enough unique vehicles to fill a subtree 

 

2 minutes ago, Colerend said:

To be honest. This topic shouldn't even exist. Germany could get F-4 ICE, two Tornado variants, Alha jet and it's variants, MiG-29G and Eurofighter Typhoons. That's a load of planes. More isn't needed at all.

If you don't like it make your own thread about how Germany doesn't need a subtree and whatever else you want to complain about. And please, the ICE will come without AMRAAMs, the Tornado variants aren't coming for a while (1-2 years), the Alpha jet is even more late than the Tornado, the 29G is just a C&P of the DDR MiG-29, and the Typhoons won't see the light of day until 8 months after the late Flankers and Hornets come to the game 

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