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Minor nations that could be added to the German air tree to breech the gap between Mig-29 to the Eurofighter


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22 minutes ago, Lord_Prism said:

Pretty much yes

i'm sorry but that is idiotic, a tank that is so heavily modified that the whole turret system is different is not copy paste and far from it

22 minutes ago, Lord_Prism said:

and thats why a Benelux tree likely won't see the light of day.

it likely will though

22 minutes ago, Lord_Prism said:

Israel was Gaijins last independant tree, with unique modifications saved for subtrees and event vehicles 

who told you that?

22 minutes ago, Lord_Prism said:

You seem to be the stubborn one sticking your fingers in your ears saying "Lalalala I'm not listening" to any reason that the Netherlands makes more sense both militarily and culturally 

you seem to be the stubborn one sticking your fingers in your eyes, can't read as well can you. i said that those similarities are irrelevant to a war thunder tech tree because they are extraordinary measures taken in today's context. i also don't see how the netherlands is that much closer culturally to germany than denmark.

22 minutes ago, Lord_Prism said:

Its certainly not a unique tree, and with update Copy&Paste it certainly didn't get any better 

it is a pretty enjoyable and unique tree and having rejected it because it has no modern MBTs of its own would have been a huge waste

 

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9 minutes ago, Lord_Prism said:

ICE will come without AMRAAMs

How do you know? Maybe they will introduce them with ICE. Either way what would be the point of adding if it didn't have them?

11 minutes ago, Lord_Prism said:

Tornado variants aren't coming for a while (1-2 years)

They literally just added them. Another one will definitely come out this year.

13 minutes ago, Lord_Prism said:

the 29G is just a C&P of the DDR MiG-29

And why is that a bad thing? 

14 minutes ago, Lord_Prism said:

Typhoons won't see the light of day until 8 months after the late Flankers and Hornets come to the game

Only they know.

 

I suppose Germany could get Hawker Kestrel and some of the trainers they used.

 

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On 01/02/2023 at 22:41, Holouu said:

We are actually completely integrating our combat units into the Bundeswehr:

 

Yea, just saw that a few days ago too :D 

 

I guess this would be an even stronger reason to make the Netherlands a subtree, wouldn't it? @SaabGripen

 

(I want to see my DAF's)

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1 hour ago, Godvana said:

 

Because the Swedish mains would have a fit if Germany got Scandinavian aircraft... And besides, Germany is much closer military to the Netherlands than it is to Denmark.

 

Denmark is not located in Scandinavia. Its on the wrong side of the Baltic Sea for that^^ Its just north of Germany, equipped with German MBTs, training its tanks together with Bundeswehr in Munster and like 1/5 of the mainland once belonged to Germany. It doesn't really fit to Sweden, which already have a subtree anyways and will probably get Norway as well. 

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On 01/02/2023 at 20:33, Cpt_Bel_V said:

Not all people would agree on that... 

 

How could you not agree on that? It's a fact xD

Dutch, Danish, Swiss, Austrian and German are all Germanic languages. Those languages can understand each other, whilst not fully they can still understand the other Germanic language

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22 minutes ago, Evo3s said:

Yea, just saw that a few days ago too :D 

 

I guess this would be an even stronger reason to make the Netherlands a subtree, wouldn't it? @SaabGripen

 

(I want to see my DAF's)

I have no particular position at the moment. (Because I didn't grind German Air)

Regardless of whether I agree with that claim or not, I'm aware merely that the Dutch subtree claim is somewhat grounded.

 

14 minutes ago, Evo3s said:

How could you not agree on that? It's a fact xD

Dutch, Danish, Swiss, Austrian and German are all Germanic languages. Those languages can understand each other, whilst not fully they can still understand the other Germanic language

But this is a bit of an erroneous claim.

You seem to be confusing Germanic with German. Danish is distinct from German in the language family.

Edited by SaabGripen
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9 hours ago, Thodin said:

 

Denmark is not located in Scandinavia. 

Thats just wrong.

 

9 hours ago, Thodin said:

It doesn't really fit to Sweden

It fits better in sweden than in germany both culturally and historically. 

 

9 hours ago, Thodin said:

1/5 of the mainland once belonged to Germany

Relevance?

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  • 4 weeks later...
20 hours ago, TheSilverGamer said:

You're so wrong that I'm kinda impressed

How is a Scandinavian country not located in Scandinavia?
Here's your chance to disprove both history and geography

 

Scandinavian countries are commonly located on the Scandinavian Peninsula .) For most definitions its just Sweden and Norway. Some accounts include Denmark and Finland as well, but mainly for cultural reasons, So it depends on the source you're using.

 

For most Germans mainland Denmark is located on the Cimbrian Peninsula, while the Danish islands are no accounted to Scandinavia as well. 

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5 hours ago, Thodin said:

Scandinavian countries are commonly located on the Scandinavian Peninsula .) For most definitions its just Sweden and Norway. Some accounts include Denmark and Finland as well, but mainly for cultural reasons, So it depends on the source you're using.

In terms of culture
I have never heard of Finland being considered Scandinavian, so I'm not sure where you've heard that, however, it is a Nordic country with close ties to Sweden.
Denmark is considered Scandinavian by culture and history.

In terms of history
Denmark was part of the peninsula for centuries before Sweden took the land, so you're correct that after that land was taken, it stopped being part of the Peninsula
I do believe the idea of the peninsula was made while Denmark was still in control of those lands, but for simplicity we'll ignore that part

In terms of geography
The Scandinavian Peninsula doesn't contain Denmark, however, it contains a part Finland, as I mentioned earlier, Finland is not Scandinavian even if it's part of the Peninsula
And that is only a small part so saying some Finns are scandinavian and the others aren't based on where they are would be rather messy

 

On 03/02/2023 at 00:42, Thodin said:

Denmark is not located in Scandinavia

Also to continue on this part. You said Denmark is not located in "Scandinavia"
There's a difference between Scandinavia and the Scandinavian Peninsula
Scandinavia would include Denmark, the peninsula would not but instead be a part of Finland

If peninsulas are so important, I do wanna add that the Scandinavian peninsula is a part of another peninsula called "Fennoscandian Peninsula" but if you started going around calling people in Russia a Scandinavian, well, that would lead to some confusion


At the end of the day, Gaijin doesn't look at Peninsulas, but rather history and culture of the countries or the vehicles themselves
Thats why you got South Africa for the UK, in terms of history they have a connection but the same can't be said geographically anymore
Same for Israel having it's Merkavas in the US tree before being made it's own nation

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  • 2 weeks later...
3 hours ago, SturmWerwolf said:

The Dutch would be a good option actually. Giving Germany access to the F-16s & AH-64D Apache.

well it looks like it's gonna be switzerland anyway 

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3 hours ago, Faster_Boiiiii said:

because they added *one* squadron vehicle?

well i don't really get it but it's something about folders or smt that would mean that switzerland will get a subtree

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Between Eurofighter and Mig29 it easy

F4F ICE ofc

well i forget sorry it not Russia so it too good to advance for the game

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On 10/03/2023 at 03:52, SturmWerwolf said:

The Dutch would be a good option actually. Giving Germany access to the F-16s & AH-64D Apache.

Isn't Germany already considering themselves to get Apache's instead of phase 3 Eurocopter Tiger. And the Dutch Apache's are getting upgraded to AH-64E's rn as well

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  • 1 month later...

Honestly, I think the Dutch subtree would be ideal, for air, ground and helicopters. There's some really interesting Dutch vehicles that fill capability gaps Germany has at higher tiers or are interesting side grades (AH-64, F-16, CV9035NL MLU), and theres a very good argument for the implementation.

 

I also wanted to throw in my 2 cents about the F-4F with AMRAAM's. Honestly, I think it'll come too late unfortunately. Gaijin says all nations are getting medium range fox 3's at the same time, and although there are capability matched aircrafts in most nations with fox 3, I think its much more likely a nation like Russia, the US, or France which will get a vastly superior jet FM wise and stomp everyone else.

 

Afaik, Russia doesnt really have many jets before 4th gen that could fire fox 3's, and the ones they did (like the MLD) would need a major bump in BR if given R-77.

 

US can get AV8B with AIM-120 afaik, but I honestly think its more likely they stick them on an F-16 or F/A-18. Maybe an F-15 if they add the Su-27 with R-77

 

France's next step in missiles is the MBDA MICA, which replaced the 530D and Magic II. Its a HOBS capable missile with (according to wiki so take with a grain of salt) 80km of range air launched. It has the option between an IR seeker (unsure if its IIR or not, but id be surprised if it wasn't) or an active radar seeker. This missile is more in-line with AIM-9X/IRIS-T, and AMRAAM mixed together than any of what we have or will have in-game, and though it "can" be used on the Mirage F1, I doubt Gaijin will implement it on anything lower than a Mirage 2000.

 

Were unfortunately jumping into an era where a lot of nations have extremely varied capabilities due to either being drivers of change (US/Russia/France) or being adopters of said changes. Capability gaps will likely be extreme, because although irl the sensors and weapons mattered most, WT still has an absurd level of multipath modelled, small maps, arcady spotting system, and other characteristics that make closing in for dogfighting easy, and jets like the F-4F ICE/Kurnass 2000 will ABSOLUTELY be on the backfoot vs anything gen 4 because of this.

 

Easiest example of this already having happened in WT was the MLD vs F-4J. The F-4J had VASTLY superior BVR missiles in the AIM-7F vs R-24, and carried more, but the MLD had the 70-80% winrate because it literally didnt matter how much better the F-4J was in BVR, the MLD could literally just close the range and obliterate it in WVR with literally no threat to itself.

Edited by MythicPi
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48 minutes ago, MythicPi said:

Easiest example of this already having happened in WT was the MLD vs F-4J. The F-4J had VASTLY superior BVR missiles in the AIM-7F vs R-24, and carried more, but the MLD had the 70-80% winrate because it literally didnt matter how much better the F-4J was in BVR, the MLD could literally just close the range and obliterate it in WVR with literally no threat to itself.

This is an argument as to how easy it is for the average player to use said vehicles, not how effective they can be. The F-4J is superior to the MLD, but the average WT player won't use it properly to take advantage of it.

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4 minutes ago, warthogboy09 said:

This is an argument as to how easy it is for the average player to use said vehicles, not how effective they can be. The F-4J is superior to the MLD, but the average WT player won't use it properly to take advantage of it.

No... the F-4J is definitly not superior to the MLD. What are you on?

 

I've played both and if judging by capability, I'd take the MLD over the F-4J literally any day. There's just about nothing an F-4J can do to an MLD if both are flown optimally, even at high altitude. As long as you have a modicum of understanding in radar missile combat, the MLD's performance eclipses the F-4J's to such a significant degree that it renders the F-4J's advantage irrelevant.

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On 10/05/2023 at 20:26, Evo3s said:

Isn't Germany already considering themselves to get Apache's instead of phase 3 Eurocopter Tiger. And the Dutch Apache's are getting upgraded to AH-64E's rn as well

Most recent development is that they wont, they will only get the H145M, partialy with current devlopment that only missle slingers are needed and you dont need a spohisticated platform for that, that being said i want an assault heli they just look cooler and are more fun

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1 hour ago, MythicPi said:

Honestly, I think the Dutch subtree would be ideal, for air, ground and helicopters. There's some really interesting Dutch vehicles that fill capability gaps Germany has at higher tiers or are interesting side grades (AH-64, F-16, CV9035NL MLU), and theres a very good argument for the implementation.

 

I also wanted to throw in my 2 cents about the F-4F with AMRAAM's. Honestly, I think it'll come too late unfortunately. Gaijin says all nations are getting medium range fox 3's at the same time, and although there are capability matched aircrafts in most nations with fox 3, I think its much more likely a nation like Russia, the US, or France which will get a vastly superior jet FM wise and stomp everyone else.

 

Afaik, Russia doesnt really have many jets before 4th gen that could fire fox 3's, and the ones they did (like the MLD) would need a major bump in BR if given R-77.

 

US can get AV8B with AIM-120 afaik, but I honestly think its more likely they stick them on an F-16 or F/A-18. Maybe an F-15 if they add the Su-27 with R-77

 

France's next step in missiles is the MBDA MICA, which replaced the 530D and Magic II. Its a HOBS capable missile with (according to wiki so take with a grain of salt) 80km of range air launched. It has the option between an IR seeker (unsure if its IIR or not, but id be surprised if it wasn't) or an active radar seeker. This missile is more in-line with AIM-9X/IRIS-T, and AMRAAM mixed together than any of what we have or will have in-game, and though it "can" be used on the Mirage F1, I doubt Gaijin will implement it on anything lower than a Mirage 2000.

 

Were unfortunately jumping into an era where a lot of nations have extremely varied capabilities due to either being drivers of change (US/Russia/France) or being adopters of said changes. Capability gaps will likely be extreme, because although irl the sensors and weapons mattered most, WT still has an absurd level of multipath modelled, small maps, arcady spotting system, and other characteristics that make closing in for dogfighting easy, and jets like the F-4F ICE/Kurnass 2000 will ABSOLUTELY be on the backfoot vs anything gen 4 because of this.

 

Easiest example of this already having happened in WT was the MLD vs F-4J. The F-4J had VASTLY superior BVR missiles in the AIM-7F vs R-24, and carried more, but the MLD had the 70-80% winrate because it literally didnt matter how much better the F-4J was in BVR, the MLD could literally just close the range and obliterate it in WVR with literally no threat to itself.

"all at the same time" is just kinda dumb imo unless every nation has a **** jet that they can be put on.

it would just make sense to introduce those on av-8b, f-4f ice, tornado f.3, kurnass 2000 and ja 37d instead of immediately jumping to su-27s, f-15s, etc.

but oh well, im not the one making decisions at gaijin

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40 minutes ago, x_Shini_ said:

Most recent development is that they wont, they will only get the H145M, partialy with current devlopment that only missle slingers are needed and you dont need a spohisticated platform for that, that being said i want an assault heli they just look cooler and are more fun

I fundamentally don't understand why Germany keeps making decisions that seem to go against every other nation militarily... It blows my mind

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3 hours ago, x_Shini_ said:

Most recent development is that they wont, they will only get the H145M, partialy with current devlopment that only missle slingers are needed and you dont need a spohisticated platform for that, that being said i want an assault heli they just look cooler and are more fun

same here, and they probably will change their mind on it when they see that a sophisticated gunship is actually useful to have, same when the US thought gun's on jet's aren't going to be needed anymore only to be proven wrong

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