Panhard EBR DCA

[Colasix 25]

Hello, I would like to present to you the Panhard EBR Bitube de 30mm DCA.

 

 

The history of the development of the EBR begins in March 1945. It was supposed to make a wheeled vehicle weighing 12 tons going at 80 km/h with a 75mm vo600 gun. In the summer of 1945, 4 manufacturers were asked to carry out a preliminary project: Panhard, Hotchkiss, Latil and Lorraine. As far as we are concerned, we will just focus on the winner of the competition, which is Panhard. To sum up Panhard has made a better chassis. At the beginning the EBR Panhard has an FL3 turret with a 75mm gun. But the turret changes for the FL5 which is lighter, later it will become the FL11. Other types of armament were also planned for the EBR. A turret that can accommodate a 105mm howitzer and an anti-aircraft turret with 4 20mm guns. This is how the first version of an EBR DCA appeared. Several blueprints were made in 1950, but that will not go further.

 

 

In 1957 the Panhard company wanted to experiment 2 30mm HSS 831 gun on an EBR hull. Tests took place in 1957 in Toulon. However, there was no follow-up after the trials. The AMX 13 hull was more efficient.

 

Here are the tank specs :

 

Mass	14 tons
Length	5.562 m (hull)
Width	2.42 m
Height	1.360 m (hull)
Crew	4 (Commander, front driver, rear driver, gunner)
Armor	hull front = 40mm hull side = 15mm hull rear = 15mm
Main armament	30mm HSS 831 with 600 rounds
Engine	Panhard 12-cylinder gasoline 200 ch
Power/weight	14,3
Suspension	8x8
Maximum speed	100 km/h

 

 

Primary source :

 

Etablissement d'Expériences Techniques de Toulon, Etude n°75, EBR Equipé d'une Tourelle Bitube de 30m/m HSS 831, Procès-Verbal n°1, 4 février 1958.

Spoiler

 

 

Secondary source :

 

P. TOUZIN, Les véhicules blindés français 1945-1977 , 1978.
J.-G. JEUDY, Chars de France , 1997.

Edited August 24, 2022 by Colasix

[leroyonly 4,311]

Open for discussion. 

 

If at all possible please do add some additional background information though. 

[Milocat 4,857]

This thing is insane and I desperately want it 

 

+1 for sure.

[T_rexflameche 110]

The bane of light tank users .

 

+1 obviously.

[CaID 8,996]

 

38 minutes ago, leroyonly said:

If at all possible please do add some additional background information though. 

here is a bit of background information.

 

the AMX 13 and EBR was intended to have standardized interchangeable turret. as the AMX 13 was intended to be a light tank for the armoured division, the EBR was intended to be a armoured car mainly used for the colony. as such, the EBR was originally not needing much anti-tank capacity and a lower velocity 75mm gun was perfectly fine. but both vehicles was also intended to receive a 105mm Howitzer version (which turret was fitted on the AMX 13) and a AA version (originally armed with 20mm and only the AMX 13 receive the turret as prototype) but as time show, the EBR and AMX 13 received each other turret at some point as the AMX 13 was more suitable for the anti-guerrilla operation of Algeria and the EBR more suitable for the reconnaissance. making the EBR needing the higher velocity gun and the AMX 13 the lower velocity.

 

as France was looking for a SPAA vehicles since 1947. the 20mm was by 1950 deemed obsolete against the new aircraft such as jets. that is why France was developing alternative. the 40mm L/70 was considered and gave us the AMX 13 DCA 40 as we have ingame, but the choice fall on the adaptation of twin 30mm HSS 831 on the AMX 13 chassis. but since the EBR was also compatible to the same turret as the AMX 13, France had considered the introduction of the SPAA version on the EBR. however, the French Colony was thing of the past and the EBR mainly used as reconnaissance. cheaper SPAA was used when needed in remote location and since the EBR was not supporting the armoured division, they had no need of a SPAA version. the AMX 13 DCA 30 was the only one adopted by France.

 

beside, the 30mm casing falling on the chassis of the EBR was causing damage as the armour was a bit too thin and the empty case was still ejected fast and was heavy. the AMX 13 didn't had such damage during the test.

Edited August 21, 2022 by CaID

[EliyahUwU 4]

+1

[G1label 143]

+1. What br would this thing get?

[CaID 8,996]

2 hours ago, G1label said:

+1. What br would this thing get?

around 5.7-6.0 i suppose. i take it in comparison to the R3 T-20 FA HS.

This EBR will have similar penetration but more damage than the 20mm. the gun are a bit over half the fire-rate but there is two of them making it have 20% higher fire-rate, no need to reload while having the same ammo load, the rotation and elevation is much better but you do not have a stabilizer. the speed remain pretty good but a bit less than the Italian armoured car. it will have a bit better mobility due to the reverse speed. but is not amphibious. it would be a good anti-aircraft vehicles and have no radar so it mean the players will need to keep their eyes open.

 

but regardless of the BR they give to it, it could always be adjusted accordingly how it perform ingame. Gaijin usually keep a close eyes on how the new addition are doing at their initial BR as they often change it on the next update when it is not right.

[Nicholas_Concu 2,634]

+1
Based cola
Great research
nuff said.

[Mister_Funkyman 270]

This vehicle is not a SPAA but a testing bench for the 30mm gun. 

 

The tank gun is operated remotely in order to test the compatibility of this combinaison, without risking possible crew injuries.

 

So, even if the vehicle is looking nice,  it has no purpose to be in the game. 

(Playing a crewless tank is gonna be a bit complicated) 

 

Also, as there is no completed version of the Panhard with 30mm guns, we can conclude that the tests were not very successful, or maybe a more compatible chassis was used instead like the AMX 13 or AMX 30. 

 

To fill the big gap of french SPAA in the tech tree, the early AMX 13 DCA without radar seems to be a better choice for now. (In my opinion). Or on the plenty early versions with 20mm guns. 

 

 

[CaID 8,996]

2 hours ago, Mister_Funkyman said:

This vehicle is not a SPAA but a testing bench for the 30mm gun. 

 

The tank gun is operated remotely in order to test the compatibility of this combinaison, without risking possible crew injuries.

 

So, even if the vehicle is looking nice,  it has no purpose to be in the game. 

(Playing a crewless tank is gonna be a bit complicated) 

 

Also, as there is no completed version of the Panhard with 30mm guns, we can conclude that the tests were not very successful, or maybe a more compatible chassis was used instead like the AMX 13 or AMX 30. 

 

To fill the big gap of french SPAA in the tech tree, the early AMX 13 DCA without radar seems to be a better choice for now. (In my opinion). Or on the plenty early versions with 20mm guns. 

 

 

it was an prototype of SPAA, not only a testbed. they did exactly the same with the AMX 13 which was teste on febuary to march 1957

 

and the AMX 13 was accepted to production and services. with the turret been armored.

 

and while testing the AMX 13 DCA with twin 30mm, they was also testing the 40mm version on aprile 3rd 1957

 

 

and the EBR was tested on December 1957 after the 2 other SPAA. beside Toulon was the training and development centre of the French DCA. making it clear it was a SPAA. only SPAA was coming out of there.

 

so despite your assumption, the purpose of the test was the services and not just a testbed. but every single vehicles was tested that way and despite of been remotely fired at first (which was mandatory for safety) it did had accuracy shooting as well. meaning the turret was maned at this point.

Edited August 22, 2022 by CaID

[SnakeMantis007@psn 30]

+1 We need desperately SPAA ingame, specially for France. 

[Xenecrite 899]

On the other hand, this one not knowing its existing until today
In addition a 30 mm anti-aircraft gun or it will hurt

+1

[Arakneo 856]

imagine the sheer madness this vehicule could bring to the battlefield: a perfect mix between the falcon and the ebr. Who wouldn t want to see that in game??

[KilianL 865]

On 12/09/2022 at 16:43, Arakneo said:

imagine the sheer madness this vehicule could bring to the battlefield: a perfect mix between the falcon and the ebr. Who wouldn t want to see that in game??

Double agreed ! 

 

If its added there is going to be some malding on the forums but I cant wait to be able to fight back the squadron 262 or any other annoying CAS in the 7.3 line up

 

+1 

 

Hope it gets the same AP shells the Saggitario 2 got on release they were nasty.

[Kasukaru 2,164]

Rhaaaa!! Hell yeah! +1000 !

[halflings1335@live 46]

+1 I want to be able to get an EBR other than the overtiered 1951.