Increased Penalty For Leaving Match Early.

[LTBR89 0]

Alright so I normally don't post on the forums infact this may very well be my first one. As much as this can be seen as a "rant" This is also a considerable issue that has been ongoing for years.  Personally I know I'm not the only one who is sick of this because it seriously puts the teams at a disadvantage. I understand we're "Crew Locked" for leaving a match early or J'ing out; however, that doesn't stop a player from jumping to the next game only to do the same thing with another nation. This happens anytime a new premium comes out IE, T-72AV (TURMS-T) ,Leopard 2 (PzBtl 123) even naval USS Moffett and USS Helena spam; however, its also the most noticed during events such as Operation winter / Operation Summer events as well.

 

Now that the issue is addressed I have thought of "Reasonable" solutions depending on how much of a community agrees or not is beyond me.

1. Longer Crew locks / Disable Nation changing while crew locked.
2. Potentially Implement Inability to matchmake for X time with an increase in time the more frequent you leave a match IE 5 mins, 10 mins, 15 mins, upwards to hours or days.
3. Extreme case Account lock for X Hours. ( I do think mentioning this one is worth while and I will explain more in a note section of this post )

Additionally, I understand for Premium buyers they may only have 1 vehicle at that BR rating.
4. Forcing the player to have atleast 2 or more vehicles of said "Rank" or BR before being able to matchmake.

5. Locking Premium purchase until the player reaches said rank for said vehicle. 

 

Side Notes. As those who will read this may come to other ideas of why this might be bad or hinder things such as for #4 & 5 it would lose out on sales or deter players I would also say it would bring incentive to create more premiums of different ranks etc but that isn't the focus here. I understand some of these ideas may or may not be extreme I do believe there is at least some sort of increased penalty either it be something I've thought of or something someone else comes up with its an issue that should be addressed. In regards to #3 I am aware people have lives work, family, other priorities in which stepping away from the game for a period of time is much more understandable; however, in my opinion it still doesn't change the fact "1 an outting" is frustrating for the team especially when players consistently do it. 

 

Regarding the Image posted as well. 13 v 13 An my team has 8 "1 an outs" Is this really how a "TEAM" game should be played? (Also I'm sorry for those who hate on ULQ players as I play on a xxxx laptop)

[ItssLuBu 1,802]

Approved and open for discussion. 

[Pierre_d_Oleesh 56]

Totally agree with all 5 points. Too bad it will never happen. o7

[FEL128 10]

I generally agree with you that "one and done" players hinder the game, but i find some of the proposed solutions to be a bit too harsh.

1. I agree with the longer crew lock times, the 10 min since match start is a bit short, but Gaijin has to improve how they determine if a player should be crewlocked. For example if i crash in my plane because i have been maneuvering to avoid another player, i get a crew lock and the other player goes home empty (The solution to this would be implementing maneuver kills). Another example would be the server crashing or losing connection and everyone's crew is locked.
2. I would like to change your idea a bit. Instead of not being able to matchmake at all, they now play in a bracket with other one death leavers for rither X matches or X minutes/hours.
3. I don't really like this point, but don't have a better idea either.
4. Having a certain amount of vehicles in the same BR range (assuming within one BR of each other) works for most major nations, but minor nations start to have issues here. Japan ground forces has a big jump from 9.0 to 10.7, meaning for me to be able to play my Type 90 i would have to unlock both of them.
5. I agree with this one.

[corevino 308]

The account does not have to be locked for a certain period of time. But otherwise I am for it.

Gaijin surely thinks that they will earn less money. But if I can only buy vehicles of the next higher level, they will probably earn more money.

But the problem does not only affect the premium content.

This whole 1 death leave makes but for me the Hightier also uninteresting 

[cortbowan@psn 225]

Since the screenshot above is from a Naval match, let me add a Ground RB screenshot. 

 

This was after not even 5 minutes into the battle. 

 

I think one point that needs to be recognized is, that there is no point of a respawn if most of your team left after one death or the other team is already in your spawn.

Repair costs also are and remain an issue. There is no point in spawning a vehicle and getting slapped with repair costs of ~8-10k SL (spaded) just to kill feed some other player. 

 

But certainly you would get an improvement if you lock premium purchases the same way you prevent players from skipping vehicles in the TT.

[JustZaky 28]

totally disagree with all point ,what u say is forcing more players to became premium user while gaijin already force players to became premium user ... ..Gaijin create this situation / issue and gaijin can hadle it ,but not with punishment that's totally unneccesary ,it's like punish someone for other's fail ....the consequences what u say is ppl leave the game forever and this is what gaijin dont want .....just use your brain .... Theres a reason why ppl leave games ,u can find in the forum ....this topic is unneccesary 

[Kingtiez@live 606]

The one spawn and goners are really irritating to deal with

[danilomarcomatte 0]

I agree with 1

[Norris_Aznable 35]

I agree with FEL128 on the first point, as someone who often has the misfortune of losing internet connection in the middle of the match. 

On 27/08/2022 at 06:11, FEL128 said:

I agree with the longer crew lock times, the 10 min since match start is a bit short, but Gaijin has to improve how they determine if a player should be crewlocked. For example if i crash in my plane because i have been maneuvering to avoid another player, i get a crew lock and the other player goes home empty (The solution to this would be implementing maneuver kills). Another example would be the server crashing or losing connection and everyone's crew is locked.

The proposal #2 might also be viable for repeated offender if that disconnect detection works. (Now that we have the option to return to match when we reconnect, selecting "no" would count as a match bailer and count for a penalty).

#3 is a bit harsh.

As for #4 and #5, I don't quite agree with. Yes, premium players that clog up the matchmaking (especially when it follows an update that initiate the power creep or has advanced premium vehicles) is very painful to deal with, but at the same time I can't blame them when Gaijin restricts your starting point despite varying gameplay meta through the tech tree. People who want to just play with Cold War or Modern MBT just buy their respective premium to experience it without slogging through the early game of WW2 tanks, and likewise people who are here because of jet combat (because, surprise surprise, it's what the game advertises itself with) don't necessarily want to spend months or years with old warbirds. The only one safe with this (to an extent) is Naval, where Gaijin separate the coastal boat meta from the bluewater gameplay meta, which will hold unless Gaijin were to add modern anti-ship cruise missile warfare (which would utterly cripple the already gamemode's lack of direction; a moment to bump this suggestion to put Ship-Missilethunder into its own matchmaker to save us the dread)

So restricting those people to having to grind up just to have something to supplant their line up or have them to pay for another premium to help them along might be an unsavory tactic (and people might felt like they got lied to)

[JustZaky 28]

instead of figure out this totally unneccesary topic just go read more topic why ppl ODL or just simply leave a battle ...than u will be smarter ...ur idea is not a solution it's punishment for what gaijin cant handle cuz gaijin is still an amateur company with zero advancement under 10 year ....and also gaijin does not care if ppl ODL or just simply leave a battle...they making money and nothing else matter for them.

[Noir89 2,578]

On 20/08/2022 at 15:30, LTBR89 said:

4. Forcing the player to have atleast 2 or more vehicles of said "Rank" or BR before being able to matchmake.

5. Locking Premium purchase until the player reaches said rank for said vehicle. 

4. I would do "At least 1 vehicle which is at max 1.0 BR lower as the topdog or 1 vehicle with the same Rank" (that would solve the "minor" Nation problem)

5. Should be the same for Squadronvehicles / Marketplacevehicles

 

These two points would solve 50% of the problem, leaving another 25% for the drones (missing AA to counter them), and 25% for inadequate maps (especially for modern vehicles).

 

I am not a friend of crewlocks, as if a game is lost i dont want to be forced to stay (surrounded spawn / 80% of the team dead and left) - there should be some checks like how much the player done in the game / for the team (one of the following - for example):

- "Best Squad" points

- ranked 1-5 in the statistics

- 1250 statistic poitns

- killed at least 3 people

 

...or similar, which would only punish yolo rush players.

 

 

...another approach would be around Repaircost:

1) Player leaves early = +100% repaircost

2) player leaves midgame = +50% repaircost

3) player leaves 2/3rd´s to the end = +25% repaircost

4) player plays until end = -50% repaircost (that would keep a lot of players in the game)

 

(beside the 1 premium ODL´s a lot of players leave because of repaircosts)

Edited December 1, 2022 by Noir89

[Evil_Moderate 11]

 

On 20/08/2022 at 16:30, LTBR89 said:

Alright so I normally don't post on the forums infact this may very well be my first one. As much as this can be seen as a "rant" This is also a considerable issue that has been ongoing for years.  Personally I know I'm not the only one who is sick of this because it seriously puts the teams at a disadvantage. I understand we're "Crew Locked" for leaving a match early or J'ing out; however, that doesn't stop a player from jumping to the next game only to do the same thing with another nation. This happens anytime a new premium comes out IE, T-72AV (TURMS-T) ,Leopard 2 (PzBtl 123) even naval USS Moffett and USS Helena spam; however, its also the most noticed during events such as Operation winter / Operation Summer events as well.

You are trying to shift the blame of the developers onto the shoulders of the players. You suggest forcing players to play what they don't want to play. (night battle, not a favorite map, camping, bugs with damage, the dominance of aircraft and the lack of countermeasures, and much more) Instead of solving these problems, you suggest that you completely discourage the desire to play this project. Turning a blind eye to all the problems that force you to play in one trip. Or even leave the battle at the loading stage. As soon as the blocking of night battles appears in the game, a full-fledged block of maps and modes. And fix a lot of bugs. And if in this case the situation with 1 exit does not disappear. I believe that the measures you suggested are necessary. In fact, the game in 1 trip to premiums - This is a purely situational problem. I am sure that with the absence of problems indicated by me. Many will finally start spending dusty understudies in the inventory.

 

[tigrebleu74 11]

"1. Longer Crew locks / Disable Nation changing while crew locked.

2. Potentially Implement Inability to matchmake for X time with an increase in time the more frequent you leave a match IE 5 mins, 10 mins, 15 mins, upwards to hours or days.

3. Extreme case Account lock for X Hours. ( I do think mentioning this one is worth while and I will explain more in a note section of this post )"

 

I disagree.

 

When I leave a match before it starts, it's usually because it's my tenth full up-tier in a row. I don't mind being fully up-tiered half the time, but I get frustrated after ten or more full up-tiers, so I leave the match before it starts and look for something that could lead to a simple up-tier or a down-tier for once. I'm a patient man, but I know where to draw the line when the matchmaker is trying to bully me.

 

Other times, I leave the match after a few minutes, regardless of how many vehicles I lost (or the odds I'll score another frag or two if I respawn), because I know the team is doomed.

 

Like when three quarters of my team goes spawn camping after capturing point A instead of capturing points B and C. The rest of us are dying to capture and protect those points B and C against most of the enemy team. Why should I stay and lose another vehicle trying to help a bunch of incompetent, selfish teammates? Teams that include a majority of selfish or clueless players aren't common, but they're far from being rare. I don't give a damn about my kills/deaths ratio, etc. As long as most of my teammates play clever, I will helpt them and gladly sacrifice myself to complete objectives and acheive victory. I play to win, so when I see a team that really isn't interested in winning, I just quit.

 

Disabling or limiting my ability to switch from one nation to another to escape a long series of full up-tiers (or to avoid a team made of utterly selfish or clueless teammates) will just make me leave the game entirerly.

 

 

"4. Forcing the player to have atleast 2 or more vehicles of said "Rank" or BR before being able to matchmake."

 

I disagree.

 

 

"5. Locking Premium purchase until the player reaches said rank for said vehicle."

 

I agree.

 

Players should be able to buy a rank I-III vehicle right from the start, but a rank IV premium vehicle should only be available when players purchase a first rank II vehicle. A rank V premium vehicle would therefore be available after purchasing a rank III vehicle, etc. This would not seriously hinder players from progressing faster as they still could purchase a premium vehicle a few ranks above the one they already have reached.

 

Yet it would prevent players who just reached rank II from entering rank VI battles with a premium vehicle only to leave after four minutes because they lost their tank. I hate it when that happens to my team.

 

While this is a real issue an arcade/realistic/simulation naval/ground battles (and air arcade battles), it's less relevant in air realisitc battles, where multiple spawns are not possible. Air EC is another thing.

Edited May 21, 2023 by tigrebleu74
typos

[Chomusuke1 1,221]

On 20/08/2022 at 09:30, LTBR89 said:

Increased Penalty For Leaving Match Early

How about no. You want people to stay? Get rid of all costs such as purchasing multiple crew costs, purchasing vehicle costs, putting vehicles into service costs, repair costs, crew skill points/costs, vehicle expert/ace costs, vehicle backup costs, the cost of paying for standard equipment such as smoke launchers, ammo types, fire extinguishers, engines, etc and then get rid of all the xxxx matchups where WW2 equipment gets decimated by fakery on post-war night or desert maps and then people might consider staying around.....

[Russian_____Bias 215]

Nah. To figure out this problem we need to clearify the motivation of "one death leaving".

Usually one death leaving is because these players are using premium vehicles and they don't have 2nd one in their lineup.

Then why there are way too many players battle with only 1 prem vehicle? Because they have to grind.

Then why they have to grind with prem? Because the income is ridiculously LOW that they cannot even reach SL balance without prem, needless to talk about grind.

See? This is an economic problem more than matchmaking.

[Fire_Drake12 34]

Do i think there should be punishment for leaving a match early?

No. However i do agree that there should be something done about it, but not in the form of a punishment like you want. You should be encouraged to stay longer; But not punished if you dont want to continue playing. This is a videogame, not a job.

There are many many reasons people might leave early in a match. A large portion of it is Gaijins fault due to poor game design. The rest can be personal reasons. Whether personal or not though, you should be free to leave a match without punishment as long as you arent griefing other players.

Gaijin created reasons:

-Current repair costs discourage spawning multiple times, even with premium.

-Poor map design makes it very hard to push back, and sometimes once you're being spawn camped you have no chance of leaving spawn.

-Certain nations are extremely overpowered to face and make playing against them unfair and unfun, often with a low chance of winning...

-A lot of nations have sub-par vehicles (some in a worse spot than others) and its also possible that depending on the situation, the vehicles they have remaining just arent worth attempting to use. Only 2 nations are really exempt from this.

 

Personal reasons could be:

-They hate a particular map (can you blame them?)

-They're getting mad, so they leave. This is a game, you should play it for fun and stop playing (or change what you're playing) if you arent having fun.

-They start a match and then at some point they have to go tend to something, life exists beyond Warthunder and stuff happens.

-Some people leaving after one death isnt even them leaving. Gaijins servers arent exactly flawless and plus some ISPs suck. This is already unfairly punished with crew lock. (Why am i being crew locked for 8m because your server booted me or i lost connection? thats 100% out of my control.)

 

Do i think one death leavers hinder Warthunder teams?

Generally yes. But its not that big of an issue. It also depends on who you're facing. But it doesnt affect you unless you let it. This game doesnt encourage teamwork and multiple times in the last 8 years Gaijin has made changes that directly nerf any form of reward for teamwork.

 

My opinions on your suggestions:

#1) Crewlocks as they are already are poorly implemented and punish people for things that arent their fault. Not only that but punishing people by literally not allowing them to play is bad game design. You should only get crew locks for griefing players. Generally all they're gonna do is open youtube and watch something until it passes so they can play what they want again. Punishment for not wanting to suffer and not have fun is not the answer.

 

#2) This is just the same as crewlock but worse. Again punishing people for not wanting to not have fun, let alone doing something that doesnt really affect you; isnt the way to go.

 

#3) Again, same as previous point, this is just taken to an absolute extreme. Outright banning accounts should be reserved for people who actually create a real problem. Leaving after 1 death because Gaijin harms you for spawning again, because you cant spawn again, or because you are no longer having fun, isnt a reason to ban someone.

 

#4) You shouldn't be required to play more than one vehicle, i understand that generally this is targeted specifically at people who buy into higher tiers with premium vehicles; but this is also just the wrong way to solve the problem. If someone only wants to play 1 tank, give them free backups (like the Israeli M-51 has) if they have a small lineup. 1 free backup (2 spawns + 1 with expendable backups) for tech tree vehicles, 2 free backups (3 spawns + 1 with expendable backups) for premium vehicles, if you have a lineup with 3 or less vehicles. Its a system that already exists in part so it wouldn't be hard to implement.

 

Plus some people have suggested that when buying a higher tier premium (we'll use the TURMS as an example) you could be given a stock beginner radar-equipped SPAA to use permanently like a ZSU-37-2. Thats a bigger discussion to have but its a good idea ive seen.

 

#5) Players should be able to buy and play whatever they want. This is a videogame. People buying top tier equipment only affects you emotionally if you allow it. What other players do doesnt affect you unless they are directly griefing or preventing you from playing. Plus even if they grind through the tree there is no guarantee they'll bring more than one tank, or be good by whatever your standard is to be a useful teammate. I've had an account for 8 years and i'm still not exceedingly good at piloting in dogfights especially against more than 1 person. Just not my thing. Everyone has a personal skill ceiling.

 

If you have problems with seeing "Victory" or "Failure" at the end of a match, you can play either the very competitive modes or with up to 3 other friends in the normal matchmaker to have a larger sway (more control) over whether or not your team does well. Communication goes a long way. You'd be surprised what even just 3 people communicating together can do to change a game especially in the casual modes.

 

The other thing that also reinforces that, is that Gaijin actively advertises almost exclusively modern equipment. As someone who has played for 8 years, if someone is completely uninterested in playing WW2 vehicles and Cold War vehicles, they should not have to be subjected to the torture that is grinding through an entire tree JUST to get to the 1 or so vehicles they're actually interested in, especially if they are willing to pay to bypass that entirely.

 

Do i think things should be done to HELP people who buy into top tier so they can be more useful? ABSOLUTELY

Do i think they should outright be barred from buying what gives them access to what they even downloaded the game for? NO, that will do nothing but drive away players and harm the game.