Magach 7C: the final Magach!

[ofekk213 251]

NOTE: this is a part of a bigger suggestion of the Magach 7 family including the Magach 7A and Magach 7C

 

Shalom fellas!

Today I would like to discuss a fan favorite of the Israeli tank community. The final Magach: the Magach 7C.

 

 

Description:

The Magach 7C is the last Magach in the Magach series (try to say that sentence five times quickly). It is a further development of the Magach 7A as it featured angled turret armor, compared to the flat turret armor of the Magach 7A. The Magach 7C entered service in the IDF around the late 80s, moved to reserve units in the early 2000s, and was officially retired in 2014 after operation Protective Edge. At this point, you can barely see the M60 inside anymore, although it is not the most advanced and overhauled M60 (that title goes to the Sabra). For more information, you can view the rest of the suggestion below.

 

General information:

Armor and survivability

The Magach 7C uses the same new composite applique armor as the Magach 7A, however, the Magach 7C's turret armor is angled to provide further effectiveness against chemical and kinetic projectiles. Just like the Magach 7A there should be no armor thickness degredation the closer you aim to the breach. Post-penetration survivability is the same as all M60 based tanks: not bad and not great, as the crew are a little bit spaced but there is a lot of ammo around. Hull had received a big SLERA armor block which would highly increase the amount of armor on the UFP.

 

Mobility

Although the Magach 7C's composite armor does slightly increase the tank's weight, the Magach 7C is also equipped with a new engine: the Continental AVDS-1790-5A 908hp Diesel Engine, giving the Magach 7C a hp/t ratio of 16.51hp/t, which isn't great but is still an improvement over older Magach variants like the Magach 6B's 14.1hp/t. There is also a new transmission, borrowed from the Merkava Mk.1, with 2 front gears and 1 reverse gear (ingame: 4 front gears and 1 reverse gear, due to torque not being a thing ingame). The Magach 7C also gets the same tracks as the Merkava Mk.1.

 

 

 

Armaments and ammunition

The armament and systems of the Magach 7C are nearly identical to the Magach 7A: same ammo selection, same fire control system, same ammo rack storage, same machine guns, etc. There are only two differences between the 2:

 

• The Magach 7C had smaller dual 12pcs smoke grenade launchers instead of the big 20pcs smoke grenades launchers
• Due to it being in service between the early 1990s and until 2014, the Magach 7C could fire the M428 SWORD 4th gen APFSDS made in 2003. It is unknown if the Magach 7 used the round IRL, but the M64 L71A L/52 caliber 105mm gun is 100% compatible with it, and according to Gaijin's "If it fits it sits" rule, it is possible to give the M428 round to the Magach 7C. 

 

There is a poll available for you to decide if the Magach 7C should get the M428 SWORD. As it is a significant upgrade over the M426 Hetz-10, it will warrant a BR increase. Be sure to select an appropriate BR according to your selection.

 

How would it work in war thunder

Israel is a bit weak in the 9.0-10.0 BR range, and although Israel needs light tanks, TDs and IFVs more urgently (as of writing this suggestion), the Magach 7C can provide awesome support for this BR range. The turret armor is even more effective than the one on the Magach 7A as it is angled. This, combined with the very thick composite applique armor and the M60's already thick base turret armor, will catch a lot of enemy tanks off guard, making the turret very resilient to HEATFS shells, APDS shells, and even APFSDS shells. All of this would make the Magach 7C a menace to deal with when it is hull down, it will be an excellent sniper. If you find yourself in close range when theres a small hill between you and an enemy, you can bait him to shoot your turret by exposing the upper part of your turret, the shot would either bounce due to the steep angle or not penetrate, allowing you to cross the hill and shoot him. Brawling, in general, is not recommended as the hull did not receive any frontal protection package except some Blazer ERA. Smart enemies will avoid shooting the turret and will instead shoot the right side of the UFP, hitting the first stage ammo rack next to the loader.

 

 

Pros and Cons

 

Pros:

• Near impenetrable turret armor with a tiny breach gap, making it extremely difficult to disable your breach or kill crewmembers shooting when through the turret.
• Rich catalog of ammunition
• Good gun with decent reload

• Improved mobility thanks to new engine and transmission

• A metric ton of smoke grenades

• Thermal imaging for the gunner

• 3 x 7.62mm FN-MAG MGs and 1 x M2HB .50 cal 12.7mm heavy MG can kill enemy tank's tracks in notime

 

Cons:

• Same vulnerable hull as previous Magachs

• Mediocre post-penetration survivability
• Even with the improved mobility, you are still slower than most MBTs around your BR
• The turret smoke grenade launchers have 4 less smoke grenades than the turret smoke grenade launcher of previous Magachs

 

History:

From the day of its creation, Israel has been in a constant state of war and always tried to optimize all of its available assets. When Israel bought M60 tanks from the US, they upgraded them to better fit the needs of the IDF and to keep them up with the ever-improving anti-tank weapons and tanks of the Arab armies. And thus, the Magach series of tanks was born: built by the US, and deeply modified by Israel. The Magach 7 sub-series of tanks is the very last Magach sub-series that served in the IDF, and the Magach 7 sub-series was a big upgrade over the Magach 6 sub-series. The Magach 7 entered service in the 1980s alongside the Merkava Mk.2 and fought in all Israeli conflicts around the 80s and 90s before moving to the reserve units. Around the 1990s, all of the Magach 7A tanks were upgraded at some point to the Magach 7C standard and the Magach 7 was finally phased out of service just in 2014 immediately after operation Protective Edge.

 

 

 

 

Specifications

 

Chassis and powerpack:

 

• Chassis type: tracked
• Engine name: Continental AVDS 1790-5A diesel
• Engine output: 908hp
• Transmission name: Allison CD850-6BX
• Transmission type: hydromechanical semi-automatic
• Transmission performance: 
  • Maximum speed forward: 46km/h
  • Maximum speed reverse: 8km/h
  • Forward gears: 2 (4 ingame)
  • Reverse gears: 1
• Power -to-Weight ratio : 16.51hp/t
• Length: 9.43m
• Width: 3.63m
• Height: 3.25m
• Weight: 54t
• Ground pressure: 0.83 kg/cm²
• Maximum ford: 1.2m underwater
• Gradient: 60%
• Side slope: 30%

 

Armor and Survivability:

 

• Turret: the combination of the angled turret as well as the sheer amount of armor on it make it near impenetrable similarly to the Leopard 2A5's turret. Side armor will also get an upgrade as the add-on armor is also present there, but I doubt it will improve enough to actually have a big effect, meybe just enough to be able to fully deny enemy 25mm autocannons. Rear armor is the same as the Magach 7A.
• Hull: Hull is equipped with a new SLERA composite armor block, making it much tougher than other M60 UFPs.
• Post-penetration survivability: mediocre, not great but not terrible. Any experienced player will aim toards the hull to try and hit the shells next to the loader, but some might be tempted to hit the turret.

 

Gun firepower and ammunition:

 

• Main armament: Sharir 105mm L/52 calibre rifiled cannon
  • Ammo capacity:
    • Total: 63pcs
    • first-stage: 37pcs
  • Gu n horizontal t raverse:
    • Range: 360°
    • Rate: 36°/s
  • Gun vertical traverse:
    • Range: -10°/+20
    • Rate: 3.3°/s
  • Stabilizer: Yes, two-plane
  • Fire rate: 7.8 rounds per minute (7.7s), same as the Magach 7A
• Main armament ammunition:
  • M152

    • Type: HEATFS

    • Velocity: 1173m/s
    • Projectile mass: 10.5kg
    • Explosive type: Composition B
    • Explosive mass (TNTe): 1.27kg
  • M156
    • Type: HESH
    • Velocity: 732m/s
    • Projectile mass: 14.85kg
    • Explosive type: Composition A
    • Explosive mass (TNTe): 3.17kg
  • M111
    • Type: 2nd gen APFSDS
    • Velocity: 1455m/s
    • Projectile mass: 4.2kg
    • Explosive type: N/A
    • Explosive mass (TNTe): N/A
  • M426
    • Type: 3rd gen APFSDS
    • Velocity: 1455m/s
    • Projectile mass: 4 .4kg
    • Explosive type: N/A
    • Explosive mass (TNTe): N/A
  • optional: M428 SWORD
    • Type: 4th gen APFSDS
    • Velocity: 1455m/s
    • Projectile mass: classified
    • Explosive type: N/A
    • Explosive mass (TNTe): N/A
  • M416
    • Type: Smoke

    • Velocity: 730m/s

    • Projectile mass: 11.4kg

    • Explosive type: Smoke composition

    • Explosive mass (TNTe): 50g

• Secondary armament: 1xM2HB .50 cal 12.7mm + 3xFN-MAG 7.62mm

 

 

Sources

Spoiler

• https://bukvoed.livejournal.com/370702.html
• http://www.military-today.com/tanks/magach_7.htm
• https://yadlashiryon.com/news/3-בדצמבר-2020המגח-שנגח-סידרת-טנקי-המגח-בצ/
• https://weaponsystems.net/system/137-Magach+7C (for confirming information only)
• https://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/Israel/Magach-7.php
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magach (for confirming information only)
• https://web.archive.org/web/20080924184724/http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/vehicles/tanks/magach/Magach_7.htm

 

Final words:

I've written this suggestion when the 1st devserver of update "Drone Age" dropped. Israel received 5 Magach variants that feel like too much boring filler. Hopefully, the Magach 7A and Magach 7C would make the Magach line feel a bit better, as both Magachs are vastly superior to the other Magachs in the tech tree. Of course, the Sabras should be the crown jewel of the line, and in the future, I will make a suggestion to the only Sabra that does not have one yet: the Sabra Mk.III. But for now, I'll say goodbye and have a good day/night.

See y'all around!

 

edit: it's 1:40 AM right now and I accidentally forgot to add "no, i dont want to see this vehicle" options for my other poll questions. It is fixed, now the suggestion follows all the requiered rules!

edit2: fixed wrong statement on hull armor, fixed weight from 55t to 54t, added additional source and TYSM Gaijin for finally bringing this tank to the game!

Edited December 2, 2022 by ofekk213

[kurururocks 210]

Open for discussion

[JamesPond1200@psn 299]

This and the Magach 7A need to be added pronto! +1

[ofekk213 251]

Be sure to check out the suggestion for the Magach 7C's younger brother: the Magach 7A

 

[Milocat 4,857]

+1, would love to see more of the Magach series!  

[lLiberté 345]

  Excellent follow up vehicle for Magach-Line, absolutely +1. Though I'm not sure if it should receive M428. It might bump 7C's BR a little too much to be effective. 

[pakmonkey 178]

On 03/09/2022 at 15:48, ofekk213 said:

the combination of the angled turret as well as the sheer amount of armor on it

Due note that the base turret on the magach 7c is the early round bowl m60 turret, not the later pike nose turret

[ofekk213 251]

26 minutes ago, pakmonkey said:

Due note that the base turret on the magach 7c is the early round bowl m60 turret, not the later pike nose turret

That changes from source to source tho, some claim its based on the M60, others claim its based on the M60A1, I even saw one that said its based on the M60A3.

 

With how interchangable M60 variants were in Israel I would not be surprised.

[pakmonkey 178]

55 minutes ago, ofekk213 said:

That changes from source to source tho, some claim its based on the M60, others claim its based on the M60A1, I even saw one that said its based on the M60A3.

 

With how interchangable M60 variants were in Israel I would not be surprised.

Idk I was pretty certain that all magach 7 variants have the bowl turrets. The 1/35 magach 7c i built also has this kind.

 

 

Edited September 14, 2022 by pakmonkey

[Zucc_Boi 657]

On 04/09/2022 at 01:48, ofekk213 said:

Hull: exactly the same as the Magach 7A. same armor thickness, same Blazer ERA.

Why do you say it's ERA, and specifically Blazer?

I know Baltan (Blazer) was often used interchangeably with ERA, but it doesn't mean it's the ERA seen on Magachs in the 70's. Blazer is a commercial name for a range of ERA products, and we know ERA is typically made as small blocks or casettes that crewmen can easily replace with simple tools. Anything with better structural integrity like SLERA, NxRA, and NERA, are typically mounted in larger modules that typically require mechanical assistance like cranes to change, as seen on the Magach 7A, 7C, and Gal Batash.

 

Many theorize Merkavas use either NxRA or SLERA (or a mix), and Magachs drew from the same R&D.

 

The notion that Magach 7C would be highly survivable strikes me as odd. It is a vehicle that inherently has significant steel mass coupled with a weak engine. Although spacious and thus ripe for modifications, it was very limiting for any designer.

Armor protection is likely substantially hindered by mobility conatraints and turret geometry. Even the Gal Batash that prioritized side and roof armor, could not spare any weight for proper hull side armor.

That said, the front-heavy turret geometry, and CONOPS at the time, heavily imply a KE bias for the 7C (while Gal Batash likely had some HEAT bias).

 

[Tunagraph 223]

+1, lovely addition.

[ofekk213 251]

5 hours ago, Zucc_Boi said:

Why do you say it's ERA, and specifically Blazer?

I know Baltan (Blazer) was often used interchangeably with ERA, but it doesn't mean it's the ERA seen on Magachs in the 70's. Blazer is a commercial name for a range of ERA products, and we know ERA is typically made as small blocks or casettes that crewmen can easily replace with simple tools. Anything with better structural integrity like SLERA, NxRA, and NERA, are typically mounted in larger modules that typically require mechanical assistance like cranes to change, as seen on the Magach 7A, 7C, and Gal Batash.

 

Many theorize Merkavas use either NxRA or SLERA (or a mix), and Magachs drew from the same R&D.

 

The notion that Magach 7C would be highly survivable strikes me as odd. It is a vehicle that inherently has significant steel mass coupled with a weak engine. Although spacious and thus ripe for modifications, it was very limiting for any designer.

Armor protection is likely substantially hindered by mobility conatraints and turret geometry. Even the Gal Batash that prioritized side and roof armor, could not spare any weight for proper hull side armor.

That said, the front-heavy turret geometry, and CONOPS at the time, heavily imply a KE bias for the 7C (while Gal Batash likely had some HEAT bias).

 

uuhh... I said that post-pen survivability would be mediocre at best.

 

On 04/09/2022 at 01:48, ofekk213 said:

Post-penetration survivability: mediocre, not great but not terrible. Any experienced player will aim toards the hull to try and hit the shells next to the loader, but some might be tempted to hit the turret.

see? I had some times when I got penned in the M60 but only lost 1 crew member somehow.

that said, after sometime thinking about it Im unsure of that exactly is the ERA on the Magach 7C's UFT, but its defenetly ERA. Can't be NERA or SLERA because you can see those are individual blocks and not a unified block.

as for the applique armor, it should be 2nd generation composite armor or ceramic armor.

[Zucc_Boi 657]

5 hours ago, ofekk213 said:

uuhh... I said that post-pen survivability would be mediocre at best.

Everything I wrote refers to armor protection and has nothing to do with post-pen survivability.

5 hours ago, ofekk213 said:

that said, after sometime thinking about it Im unsure of that exactly is the ERA on the Magach 7C's UFT, but its defenetly ERA. Can't be NERA or SLERA because you can see those are individual blocks and not a unified block

I can definitely see a single block implying a reactive armor type that isn't ERA.

[SteelSentinel147 15]

+1 100% should be one of the last tanks in the line after the Gal Batash and 7A. Sabra Mk.I, II & III after it

[modern_primat 182]

+1

[blockbauer 16]

+1 for the Magach with the 4th generation APFSDS

[aaaa23456789 308]

how do you know the transmission？

 

I wonder it is CD-850-6 series

 

The Merkava 1 ingame should has 6F2R ， the same as other M60 and other Merkava variants （excpet Merkava 4）

[DMYEugen 688]

Nice to see it coming in the next update.

[Yontzee 1,676]

54 minutes ago, DMYEugen said:

Nice to see it coming in the next update.

Agreed, nice to see Israel getting some tlc…

https://warthunder.com/en/news/7988-development-magach-7-the-ram-hits-again-en

Edited December 1, 2022 by Yontzee

[ueberman 79]

no m428 sword tho, big sad 

[Merkko 72]

 

16 minutes ago, Yontzee said:

Agreed, nice to see Israel getting some tlc…

[ofekk213 251]

40 minutes ago, ueberman said:

no m428 sword tho, big sad 

On second thought that round might be too powerfull, and M426 is already really good. Hopefully we will see M428 SWORD on the Sabrah light tanks when they come along.

[Yontzee 1,676]

4 hours ago, ofekk213 said:

On second thought that round might be too powerfull, and M426 is already really good. Hopefully we will see M428 SWORD on the Sabrah light tanks when they come along.

It would probably have similar performance to the M900 since we don't know its actual performance (we know its equal to or greater than M900 at the least) which would put the Magach 7C around ~10.3. Giving it the M426 will probably let them put the vehicle at 9.7.

Edited December 1, 2022 by Yontzee

[ofekk213 251]

1 hour ago, Yontzee said:

It would probably have similar performance to the M900 since we don't know its actual performance (we know its equal to or greater than M900 at the least) which would put the Magach 7C around ~10.3. Giving it the M426 will probably let them put the vehicle at 9.7.

M428 SWORD was made 12 years after M900A1, so meybe it will have better performance, but I doubt how much more can 105mm APFSDS improve...

Edited December 1, 2022 by ofekk213

[ofekk213 251]

On 27/11/2022 at 18:07, _____HK416_____ said:

how do you know the transmission？

 

I wonder it is CD-850-6 series

 

The Merkava 1 ingame should has 6F2R ， the same as other M60 and other Merkava variants （excpet Merkava 4）

https://web.archive.org/web/20080924184724/http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/vehicles/tanks/magach/Magach_7.htm
By that source, the Magach 7C uses the CD-850-6BX transmission, same as the Merkava Mk.1. IDK where did you read that the transmission the Merkava Mk.1 uses is 6F2R...