Fix the TOR (Issues with TOR listed)

[地表最强地狱猫车长 73]

On 10/11/2022 at 18:17, _David_Bowie_ said:

9M331 的 16g 最大 G 过载不是错误。根据ЗЕНИТНЫЙ РАКЕТНЫЙ КОМПЛЕКС “TOP-M1”， 9M331 具有 16g 最大 G 过载.

 

揭示隐藏的内容

 

Please forgive me for using translation software. According to the translation obtained in the document you quoted, it is a lateral overload of 15-16, but the way to calculate the maximum overload of a missile is not to calculate a single lateral overload data. I hope that GAIJIN will officially reconfirm the translation problem and recalculate

[David Bowie 1,554]

4 hours ago, armos19861 said:

Please forgive me for using translation software. According to the translation obtained in the document you quoted, it is a lateral overload of 15-16, but the way to calculate the maximum overload of a missile is not to calculate a single lateral overload data. I hope that GAIJIN will officially reconfirm the translation problem and recalculate

No, 16g matches our current standards for missiles maneuverability.

[地表最强地狱猫车长 73]

16 hours ago, _David_Bowie_ said:

No, 16g matches our current standards for missiles maneuverability.

Can I understand your sentence like this： I know that lateral overload is not maneuverable overload, but I just don't fix it, I just don't pay attention to you china players

Edited November 27, 2022 by armos19861

[David Bowie 1,554]

15 minutes ago, armos19861 said:

Can I understand your sentence like this： I know that lateral overload is not maneuverable overload, but I just don't fix it, I just don't pay attention to you china players

that's just your personal opinion, rather I think you haven't read my previous posts.

 

"Максимальная располагаемая поперечная перегрузка" in that material mean Maximum G overload in single plane.

 

There are two ways to calculate the maneuverability of a missile, Single plane and Combined plane.

And the standard used by developers when determining the maneuverability of a missile is Single plane.

 

If you don't understand Single plane and Combined plane, please see the following picture:

Spoiler

 

The reason we only use single planes as standard is simple, because maneuverability in combined planes is a theoretical maneuverability that can only be achieved under very limited conditions. Simply put, maximum maneuverability is achieved only when the missile's wings are positioned in X. 

 

The better maneuverability I'm talking about means a combined plane, not 30g from unreliable data.

[Gatsby_WT 136]

44 minutes ago, _David_Bowie_ said:

that's just your personal opinion, rather I think you haven't read my previous posts.

 

"Максимальная располагаемая поперечная перегрузка" in that material mean Maximum G overload in single plane.

 

There are two ways to calculate the maneuverability of a missile, Single plane and Combined plane.

And the standard used by developers when determining the maneuverability of a missile is Single plane.

 

If you don't understand Single plane and Combined plane, please see the following picture:

Reveal hidden contents

 

The reason we only use single planes as standard is simple, because maneuverability in combined planes is a theoretical maneuverability that can only be achieved under very limited conditions. Simply put, maximum maneuverability is achieved only when the missile's wings are positioned in X. 

 

The better maneuverability I'm talking about means a combined plane, not 30g from unreliable data.

If I'm not mistaken, Super 530F already uses combined plane for its G load (28 G). Why not lower it to 20 G for single plane then?

[David Bowie 1,554]

6 hours ago, PhantomRiderWT said:

If I'm not mistaken, Super 530F already uses combined plane for its G load (28 G). Why not lower it to 20 G for single plane then?

That was a mistake, it will be changed to 20G

[不是很能抗压 1,265]

On 27/11/2022 at 06:02, _David_Bowie_ said:

No, 16g matches our current standards for missiles maneuverability.

So what about to make Tor-M1 go to 10.3 and add another spaa in 11.0 for China?

Edited November 28, 2022 by ZERO_OLYH

[Taskforce404 210]

gaijin will fix it when they put it in ru tt, its just gaijined

[aaaa23456789 308]

On 15/11/2022 at 17:48, _David_Bowie_ said:

 

search angle of the radar has two modes, 0~32° and 32°~64°, and both modes cannot be used at the same time.

will the 32-64 mode implemented in the next update？

[TheDudesRug 36]

You know what? I was hating on this thing when I first got it. But now I love the damn thing. Just make sure you manually aim and the thing is gravy.

[CheddarMilk 6]

On 15/11/2022 at 18:39, _David_Bowie_ said:

"Максимальная располагаемая поперечная перегрузка" = Maximum G overload in single plane

There is nothing problem, missiles maximum G overloads in game are based on overload in single plane only.

 

According to sources, VT-1 missile's maximum G overload in single plane is 35g. 

Please write a report if you have additional rebuttal sources.

 

claims without any evidence

Well if there’s no room for improvements for its missile, I still have some suggestions: Although radar of the Tor-m1 has a decent performance at its current br, its missile is underperforming not only due to its low g limit, but also due to its highlighted trailing tail (which severely blocks your sight while guiding, and it also reveals your position to your foes). Moreover, other SAMs at this br has the ability to destroy light armor or even mbt by overpressure for self-defense, Tor however has a >1km dead zone such that it barely has the ability to kill ground targets or even air targets at close range. As such, I feel the overall performance of Tor m1 does not quite match its current br at 11.3.
 

If you insists on keeping it at br 11.3, then  please at least make its trailing tail less obvious, improve the missile’s trajectory so that it does fewer “spiral” movements after launch, and if possible, make the manual guiding mode default because the auto guiding mode is almost useless in a PVP game at the present stage. 

[罗辑 251]

TOR M1 should never be added to China, gaijin knew the missile is bad and it has no thermal.

They don't want to add it to Russia TT because the reason we all know. than why they give it to China? maybe jealous or Discrimination or what ever.

China have YiTian II, TianLong12, HQ17A, FK1000/2000, than gaijin gave it TOR M1,,,,,,,

Edited March 15, 2023 by VictorLiu1997

[_Fantom2451_ 292]

There are some reasons that Tor-M1 study guide probably is wrong about 9M331 overload.

1.

Spoiler

9M331 is 9M330 with improved warhead.

2.

Spoiler

9M331D has overload up to 42g. 26g increase for missile that based on 9M331 would be too high.

"In the future, work was carried out to increase the sensitivity of the radio fuse, which increased the effectiveness of defeating small-sized means of air attack.
The second most important element of the modernization of the missile defense system was the work to increase the far boundary of the affected area. In the process of operation, by optimizing the operation of the gas generator that provides power to the steering drives, an increase in the far boundary of the affected zone to 15 km was achieved compared to the far boundary of the affected zone of the 9M330 (9M331) 12 km.
The upgraded missile defense system was assigned the index 9M331D."

3. Some info from russian unofficial book

Spoiler

 

 

Edited March 23, 2023 by _Fantom2451_

[_Fantom2451_ 292]

https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/yPl8TTBaCBL1

[Smoak741 1,140]

17 hours ago, _Fantom2451_ said:

https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/yPl8TTBaCBL1

This is how it should have been from the beginning, not 16G.
Then maybe instead of the pantsir the USSR would get its own Tor

[Raldi92 2,923]

On 24/03/2023 at 01:56, _Fantom2451_ said:

https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/yPl8TTBaCBL1

 

Almaz Antey has even reseleased a brochure for the 9M331 missile ( 9M334 complex which includes the container ) where the max overloads depending range are detailed .

 

Up to 9,5km distance :  42-30G .

From 9,5-12km distance :  30-8G .

From 12-15km distance : 8-4G .

 

This pretty much confirms the image you have posted mentioning at least 30G . How Gaijin historical consultant can get over such primary documentation is beyond me ...

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

[_Fantom2451_ 292]

7 hours ago, Raldi92 said:

Almaz Antey has even reseleased a brochure for the 9M331 missile ( 9M334 complex which includes the container ) where the max overloads depending range are detailed .

9M331D. I posted g-loads above from stand on maks-2021.

7 hours ago, Raldi92 said:

How Gaijin historical consultant can get over such primary documentation is beyond me ...

They just took data from the first source that they found (Tor-M1 study guide) and didn't even try to conduct a deeper research.

[Raldi92 2,923]

13 hours ago, _Fantom2451_ said:

9M331D. I posted g-loads above from stand on maks-2021.

 

Indeed the document is about 9M331D but as you point out it is highly unlikely there is such as massive G load difference between 9M331 and 9M331D given both have the same velocity and aerodynamic shceme.  9M331D has slightly higher kill zone due to better energy managment ( wasting less energy in manuvers ) but that's all . As shown in the photo you posted and in the 9M331D document both missiles are rated for over 30G single plane ( up to 9,5km ) which means there are very little if no change at all in the G-load of the missiles which makes sense since 9M331D is derived from 9M331 .

 

13 hours ago, _Fantom2451_ said:

They just took data from the first source that they found (Tor-M1 study guide) and didn't even try to conduct a deeper research.

 

Exactly , that was my point .

 

[Arcadia_Nyx 811]

By New Datamine:

Spoiler

The SAM of truth is coming to us!

 

 

 

9M331 :

• Drag Coef : 1.32 -> 1.075

• Fins AoA : 12.6 -> 13.05°

• Fins Lateral Acceleration : 18 -> 62

• Mass after Booster Burn : 107 -> 108.1 kg

• Mass after Sustainer Burn : 77 -> 82.3 kg

• Booster Force : 33 -> 32.37 kN

• Sustainer Force : 8.25 -> 7.1 kN

• Orientation Torque : 245 -> 12000 N

• Start Speed : 16 -> 21

• Statcard Max G : 16 -> 30 G

• Guidance : Distance To Target To Loft Elevation : [9000 m, 7°, 1500 m, 0°] -> [9000 m, 7°, 2000 m, 0°]

• Orientation Autopilot :

  • Added a 0.31 s delay

  • Angle To Angular Rate: 2.0 -> 7.5

  • PID proportional term: 1 -> 0.137

  • PID integral term limit: 1 -> 0

• Line of Sight Autopilot :

  • Delay : 1.75 -> 0.8 s

  • Cross Distance to Required Cross Velocity Multiplier : 2 -> 3

  • Required Cross Velocity Ration Max : 0.6 -> 0.85

  • Max G : 16 -> 42 G

  • PID proportional term : 0.0075 -> 0.0126

  • PID integral term : 0.0306 -> 0

  • PID integral term limit : 0.5 -> 0

  • PID differential term : 0.0009 -> 0.0014

• Added Time to G-limit Table for Line of Sight Autopilot :

  • 2 s: 8 G

  • 3.5 s : 15 G

  • 5 s : 35 G

  • 14 s : 35 G

  • 17 s : 43 G

  • 19 s : 33 G

  • 22 s : 33 G

 

Edited April 25, 2023 by Alpine_Lynx

[shining moon gee mine 好胆别走 26]

这个帖子太打脸了  自己贴的资料证明自己没错 现在说改就改了  还是说苏系又要发新导弹了？