ukraine Ukraine Ground Forces Tree

[leroyonly 4,311]

Guys, keep it on topic. I know that this will stay as a rather volitile topic for the foreseeable future however do keep politics out of it. So far most of you guys have been keeping this suggestion on-topic, please keep it that way. I also cleaned up some of the off-topic stuff.

[Yontzee 1,676]

1 hour ago, Azinfriit said:

 

There's no "Soviet Russia" in this game, but Soviet Union, it's literally the name of the tech tree. And guess who else is a successor to the USSR? Ukraine.

 

We also have many in-game examples that make Ukraine inviable as it's own tech tree, such as East/West Germany and China/ROC. This is the precedent.

 

I'm just being factual with you. If there's ever Ukrainian vehicles in this game, they should be in the Soviet tech tree.

 

Then where are the other post-Soviet nations? Why are they not in the game except Russia?

 

As of right now it’s a Russia/Soviet tree, not a full Soviet tree. They’ve had the opportunities to add the other nations. 

Edited January 13, 2023 by Yontzee

[Azinfriit 663]

1 hour ago, Yontzee said:

Then where are the other post-Soviet nations? Why are they not in the game except Russia?

 

As of right now it’s a Russia/Soviet tree, not a full Soviet tree. They’ve had the opportunities to add the other nations. 

 

1- The devs simply haven't added them, it's not a rule.

 

2- Since 2012 it was the Soviet tech tree, Ukraine, Russia and all other republics included, you may like it or not but it's just how things are.

 

 

You seem to not remember but Russian vehicles are a fairly new addition, therefore the tech tree remains Soviet at it's core, nothing about it excludes Ukraine.

 

And btw why do we need another tech tree? Give me a break, I want to research the Oplot as soon as it is launched, I don't want to go through stock T-34's and low tier crews all over again.

[Adr_Farling 265]

3 hours ago, Azinfriit said:

The same way Russia is a subtree in the Soviet tech tree, Ukraine could be too. Any other form is totally illogical.

Russia is not a subtree of the Soviet Tech Tree. In case you haven’t noticed: its called sub-tree. A subtree is something coexisting to the original tree. Russia is not coexisting to the soviet tree, since after the soviet vehicles end, there is only russia, which makes russia the soviet unions successor in-game.

Apart from that the russian tech tree is the last tech tree needing new vehicles.

Furthermore the vehicles in this Ukraine TT suggestion are so many, they wouldn’t even fit in the russian TT.

 

Also I hate to address politics, but one doesn’t just merge nations in a game while they are in a bloody war.

Moreover I doubt the ukrainian people feel belonging to the soviet union, quite in contrast to the russians.

 

22 minutes ago, Azinfriit said:

2- Since 2012 it was the Soviet tech tree, Ukraine, Russia and all other republics included, you may like it or not but it's just how things are.

Sorry but if the Soviet tree wasn’t a russian tree, we would have all the other republics including Ukraine in it by now.

The fact that we don’t have them after more than 10 years of War Thunder shows quite clear, that the Devs see the Soviet Tree as the russian tree.

 

31 minutes ago, Azinfriit said:

You seem to not remember but Russian vehicles are a fairly new addition,

Uhm stuff like the Khrizantema has been in the game for around 2 years… I wouldn’t call that “new”

 

26 minutes ago, Azinfriit said:

And btw why do we need another tech tree? Give me a break, I want to research the Oplot as soon as it is launched, I don't want to go through stock T-34's and low tier crews all over again.

The suggested TT starts at 5.7, so you wouldn’t have to play low tier that much.

If it bothers you so much, just buy a ukrainian premium tank if the ukrainian TT gets announced.

[Azinfriit 663]

49 minutes ago, Adr_Farling said:

Russia is not a subtree of the Soviet Tech Tree. In case you haven’t noticed: its called sub-tree. A subtree is something coexisting to the original tree. Russia is not coexisting to the soviet tree, since after the soviet vehicles end, there is only russia, which makes russia the soviet unions successor in-game.

Apart from that the russian tech tree is the last tech tree needing new vehicles.

Furthermore the vehicles in this Ukraine TT suggestion are so many, they wouldn’t even fit in the russian TT.

 

Also I hate to address politics, but one doesn’t just merge nations in a game while they are in a bloody war.

Moreover I doubt the ukrainian people feel belonging to the soviet union, quite in contrast to the russians.

 

Sorry but if the Soviet tree wasn’t a russian tree, we would have all the other republics including Ukraine in it by now.

The fact that we don’t have them after more than 10 years of War Thunder shows quite clear, that the Devs see the Soviet Tree as the russian tree.

 

Uhm stuff like the Khrizantema has been in the game for around 2 years… I wouldn’t call that “new”

 

The suggested TT starts at 5.7, so you wouldn’t have to play low tier that much.

If it bothers you so much, just buy a ukrainian premium tank if the ukrainian TT gets announced.

 

1- You're splitting hairs based on unwritten rules, void point. The tech tree is the Soviet one, and it contains Russian vehicles, it's only fair to call the Russian part of the tech tree a subpart.

 

2- Again, it's not the Russian tech tree, it's the Soviet tech tree, it's literally how the game files call it. You don't want more vehicles added to it? Well, that's not up to you to decide, nor me.

 

3- Their "feelings" don't change the HISTORICAL FACT that Ukraine is a successor state to the USSR. Historical revisionism should never be tolerated, no matter how many tears drop.

 

4- In these 10 years, MOST of them we didn't have a single Russian vehicle, null point.

 

5- 2 years inside the lapse of 10 can be considered new, or at least "newer", just proving the previous point.

 

6- Remind me, what country these 5.7 vehicles from the suggested TT will belong to?

 

 

Edit: I will have to add that most people here are not following in-game logic or historical facts to justify the addition of this TT, but rather a childish urge to have a visual "gotcha" in-game.

 

Picture related to shock people in denial.

 

 

Edited January 13, 2023 by Azinfriit

[Adr_Farling 265]

54 minutes ago, Azinfriit said:

 

1- You're splitting hairs based on unwritten rules, void point. The tech tree is the Soviet one, and it contains Russian vehicles, it's only fair to call the Russian part of the tech tree a subpart.

 

2- Again, it's not the Russian tech tree, it's the Soviet tech tree, it's literally how the game files call it. You don't want more vehicles added to it? Well, that's not up to you to decide, nor me.

 

3- Their "feelings" don't change the HISTORICAL FACT that Ukraine is a successor state to the USSR. Historical revisionism should never be tolerated, no matter how many tears drop.

 

4- In these 10 years, MOST of them we didn't have a single Russian vehicle, null point.

 

5- 2 years inside the lapse of 10 can be considered new, or at least "newer", just proving the previous point.

 

6- Remind me, what country these 5.7 vehicles from the suggested TT will belong to?

1. The unwritten rule is called logic (again: sub-tree).

2. Me splitting hairs doesn’t make my point invalid. 
3. Yes, it is called the Soviet tree in the files, since most of its vehicles are from a time, when it was called the soviet union. However, russia is still the successor of the soviet union since it was the biggest and most leading part of the soviet union. 
4. I have never said, that I don’t want more vehicles in the russian tree. I just said, that the ukrainian vehicles shouldn’t be added to the russian tree and that they would be too many to fit into the russian tree.

5. Yes, Ukraine is one of many minor successor state of the soviet union, however Russia is its major successor. Just because Ukraine was in the soviet union, doesn’t justify to refuse Ukraine its own tech tree.

6. Applying your logic of successors, Gaijin should move all the american vehicles into the british tree, since (following your logic) the US is a successor of the Bri’ish empire. I hope you see how rediculous this would be.
Also in case you haven’t known: the Ukrainian culture has a history before the ussr.

7. Yeah in these 10 year we had russian vehicles / russia as successor of soviet union for like 2,5 years. What makes you think, that Gaijin wants the Soviet/russian tree to have all the minor successors unified in it? We haven’t seen a subtree for it, so your thesis that they will add them is not proven for now. (One could say that you are the one splitting hairs based on unwritten rules)

8. Okay you do have a point here: the russian vehicles are newer if you view the whole history of WT. But as I said before: they haven’t dropped any real hints (iirc) about the soviet/russian tree being diverse/getting any subtrees.

9. You say that historical revisionism shouldn’t be tolerated. Funny that you say that considering that you were talking something about unwritten rules before. ^^

10. From gaijins point of view it wouldn’t be a good idea to add the ukrainian vehicles to the russian tree either since that would start a sh*tstorm and the other players of other nations would complain, since russia would have around double the vehicles of any other TT (which wouldn’t be fair). Furthermore Gaijin would benefit from selling new premiums, if Ukraine gets their own TT, just like they sold a lot of premiums with the Israeli TT.

 

Okay this was a long text, I know.

In the end it is not up to us to decide, but to Gaijin and (to some degree) the community (the poll is pretty clear about it lol).

I hope I threw in some good arguments for a constructive discussion in this thread, however I wasted wayyy to much time into this pretty much pointless discussion, so I will probably not reply and leave others to talk.

Cheers

 

 

Edited January 13, 2023 by Adr_Farling

[Yontzee 1,676]

Keep politics out of this suggestion. 

[DEERE317 78]

The Israeli tree should be in the British tree also as they literally revolted against Britain so could be considered a successor state.

And the Swedish/Finnish TT should be in Russia as that was their imperial master for a good chunk of history IRC.

And Gaijin should skip all of the premium sales of a new TT, potentially tick off a bunch of very Pro Ukraine westerners who have the disposable income to dump on this game, and overstuff the already full USSR TT (which would align with Russian “history” of believing that the USSR was their empire and that Ukraine has no right to be a separate nation, which this digressing a bit, believing that Ukraine should got into the de facto Russian TT (let’s not kid ourselves, it’s the Russian TT once you’re past the Cold War) requires much of the same beliefs and manipulations that Putin and Russia use to justify their aggression and imperialism against their neighbors, that is, they’re the same same as Russia and should be under Russian influence)

Or Gaijin could milk Pro Ukraine sentiments for stupidly large premium sales…

One option seems more likely than the other unless Gaijin is ran by a bunch of Russian nationalists.

[HaphazardDrip94 10]

(Coming from an unbiased standpoint) I, actually have no idea what to say. Do I want this in the game? Bits and pieces, yes, but as a whole tech tree? That's the one I'm thinking should not be in the game. I mean, its big enough to become independent sure, but with a good bit amount of vehicles already in the game, especially in the early ranks, I cant decide to make it independent because people will have to grind those vehicles again (if their coming from the USSR tech tree). But there also so many vehicles of Ukraine's origin, so if we would put all those in the USSR tech tree, well than there would be no doubt that will make the tree about 1.5x bigger than it already is and 2x from the others. Help me decide, I need to vote XD

[ZVO_12_INCH 492]

7 hours ago, Yontzee said:

Then where are the other post-Soviet nations? Why are they not in the game except Russia?

 

As of right now it’s a Russia/Soviet tree, not a full Soviet tree. They’ve had the opportunities to add the other nations. 

There are few interesting non-Russian equipment there...The most interesting JF-17 Block-3 is from Azerbaijan...Personally, I don't mind!...

Spoiler

 

[Yontzee 1,676]

4 minutes ago, ZVO_12_INCH said:

There are few interesting non-Russian equipment there...The most interesting JF-17 Block-3 is from Azerbaijan...Personally, I don't mind!...

Hide contents

 

Azerbaijan has some fun stuff. I like the T-72 Aslan (SIM-2).

Edited January 13, 2023 by Yontzee

[leroyonly 4,311]

Guys, keep it on topic. I know that this will stay as a rather volitile topic for the foreseeable future however do keep politics out of it. So far most of you guys have been keeping this suggestion on-topic, please keep it that way. I also cleaned up some of the off-topic stuff.

[Yontzee 1,676]

4 minutes ago, leroyonly said:

Guys, keep it on topic. I know that this will stay as a rather volitile topic for the foreseeable future however do keep politics out of it. So far most of you guys have been keeping this suggestion on-topic, please keep it that way. I also cleaned up some of the off-topic stuff.

Thanks! 

 

[Azinfriit 663]

1 hour ago, Colerend said:

Then tell me. Why Gaijin didn't add any Ukrainian, Georgian or Belarussian vehicles but preferred to add a Czech vehicle and a Syrian vehicle?

 

Ask them, not me. And this small piece of trivia changes the historical fact that Ukraine was part of the USSR? No it doesn't.

[ZVO_12_INCH 492]

35 minutes ago, Yontzee said:

Azerbaijan has some fun stuff. I like the T-72 Aslan (SIM-2).

They have a weak engine-780 hp...Kazakhstan has an interesting tank (not serial)...T-72KZ Shygys mod. 2016 – (Kazakhstan, Israel, Turkey)...Т-72KZ/KAE "Шыгыс" или "Нурсултанк" | Вояка | Дзен (dzen.ru)

[Yontzee 1,676]

24 minutes ago, ZVO_12_INCH said:

They have a weak engine-780 hp...Kazakhstan has an interesting tank (not serial)...T-72KZ Shygys mod. 2016 – (Kazakhstan, Israel, Turkey)...Т-72KZ/KAE "Шыгыс" или "Нурсултанк" | Вояка | Дзен (dzen.ru)

Yeah, it does retain the same engine. I did do a suggestion on the KAE 

 

[Yontzee 1,676]

PM Rishi Sunak confirms FV4034 Challenger 2 tanks will be sent to Ukraine. Decision was made public not to long ago. 14 tanks or a squadron will be sent.
 

Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-64274755.amp

This is probably due to the training needed to operate them. Up to ~70 could possibly be sent in the future as the UK draws down its stocks and puts its focus into the Challenger 3 program. Likely will be the standard armor package but we’ll see what happens. In the future, the UK is looking into sending some FV510 Warrior IFV’s as well. 
 

I was going to post a UA skin but couldn’t find any for the Challenger 2. 

 

Edited January 14, 2023 by Yontzee

[Rambolf 371]

55 minutes ago, Yontzee said:

PM Rishi Sunak confirms FV4034 Challenger 2 tanks will be sent to Ukraine. Decision was made public not to long ago. 14 tanks or a squatting will be sent.
 

Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-64274755.amp

This is probably due to the training needed to operate them. Up to ~70 could possibly be sent in the future as the UK draws down its stocks and puts its focus into the Challenger 3 program. Likely will be the standard armor package but we’ll see what happens. In the future, the UK is looking into sending some FV510 Warrior IFV’s as well. 
 

I was going to post a UA skin but couldn’t find any for the Challenger 2. 

 

Challenger 2 with Kontakt 1 

[Raiden_Black 1,875]

1 hour ago, Yontzee said:

PM Rishi Sunak confirms FV4034 Challenger 2 tanks will be sent to Ukraine. Decision was made public not to long ago. 14 tanks or a squatting will be sent.
 

Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-64274755.amp

This is probably due to the training needed to operate them. Up to ~70 could possibly be sent in the future as the UK draws down its stocks and puts its focus into the Challenger 3 program. Likely will be the standard armor package but we’ll see what happens. In the future, the UK is looking into sending some FV510 Warrior IFV’s as well. 
 

I was going to post a UA skin but couldn’t find any for the Challenger 2. 

 

*12 Challenger 2s
4 will be sent in immediately, with 8 following later.

14 is the number of Leo 2s, Poland is planning to send.
.

6 minutes ago, Rambolf said:

Challenger 2 with Kontakt 1 

 

Spoiler

 

Edited January 14, 2023 by Raiden_Black

[Yontzee 1,676]

16 minutes ago, Raiden_Black said:

*12 Challenger 2s
4 will be sent in immediately, with 8 following later.

14 is the number of Leo 2s, Poland is planning to send.
.

 

Reveal hidden contents

 

Thanks, that was a mistype. I meant to put 12.  Also spelling error: Squadron* lol

Edited January 14, 2023 by Yontzee

[Red_Panda__ 51]

as for me, it’s better to add the USSR to the branch, so you can get rid of unnecessary copies, there is no problem in the aviation branch (it is solved by adding new camouflages to USSR aircraft), add interesting vehicles, t-64bm, btr-3 and btr-4, t -72amt, t-84

I think everyone wants to see the Ukrainian branch not as copies of leopards, abrams, but as unique cars made in Ukraine

 

Edited January 14, 2023 by Red_Panda__

[Yontzee 1,676]

1 hour ago, Red_Panda__ said:

as for me, it’s better to add the USSR to the branch, so you can get rid of unnecessary copies, there is no problem in the aviation branch (it is solved by adding new camouflages to USSR aircraft), add interesting vehicles, t-64bm, btr-3 and btr-4, t -72amt, t-84

I think everyone wants to see the Ukrainian branch not as copies of leopards, abrams, but as unique cars made in Ukraine

 

Currently I have the tree as Eastern but I will add a separate option to have Western/delivered technology as well. My reasoning for this as the poll stands, 2/3rds of voters support the tree as independent with just over half of voters selected Western technology incorporated into the tree. 

 

I do appreciate your opinion though and will also add a 3rd option as a tabbed nation in the USSR tree at some point as well. I'm trying to offer fair alternatives for all viewers.

 

Edit: Just to clarify, I may have a personal opinion about wanting to have this as an independent tree and may share my arguments on this, but that won't interfere with trying to maintain the unbiased approach of this suggestion itself. 

Edited January 14, 2023 by Yontzee

[Raiden_Black 1,875]

[VatnikWrangler22 325]

31 minutes ago, Raiden_Black said:

Why is the tank in quotations lol, the Challenger 2 is the tankiest tank out there 

[HIMARS_Enjoyer 182]

2 hours ago, Rambolf said:

Challenger 2 with Kontakt 1 

 

Like this , but Challenger

47 minutes ago, Raiden_Black said:

I agree with this meme all 100%

 

[HIMARS_Enjoyer 182]

So, i got picture of Challenger 2 in Kontakt-1 ERA