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Ukraine Ground Forces Tree


Yontzee
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Ukraine Ground Forces Tree Suggestion  

633 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Ukraine be its own nation in War Thunder?

    • Yes
      433
    • No
      175
    • Other/Comment
      25
  2. 2. What Rank should it start at?

    • IV
      289
    • V
      97
    • VI
      50
    • Other/Comment
      30
    • I don't want it.
      154
  3. 3. Should there be more Western equipment in the tree (i.e. Gepard 1A2) or focus just on Eastern equipment?

    • Western
      251
    • Eastern
      156
    • Other/Comment.
      65
    • I said no.
      148


Best answer

Guys, keep it on topic. I know that this will stay as a rather volitile topic for the foreseeable future however do keep politics out of it. So far most of you guys have been keeping this suggestion on-topic, please keep it that way. I also cleaned up some of the off-topic stuff.

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4 hours ago, ZVO_12_INCH said:

The T-55AM_ is not a Ukrainian modernization....It's still-Soviet/Warsaw design...
The whole "modernization" in Ukrainian is to remove the V-1 index from the tank designation and add 4 sheets of rubber on the tank turret...:dntknw:

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The T-55 samples with the V-46-5M engine received the T-55M-1 index. Tanks without a guided weapons system — T-55M1, and those of them that were equipped with a V-46-5M engine — T55M1-1. Variants of cars without additional reservation, but with mounted dynamic protection had the designation T-55MV, with the engine B-46-5M — T-55MV1-1...

The T-55M/AM tanks also received the Kontakt-1: dynamic protection elements were installed in the front of the hull on the upper and lower frontal plates (44 and 12 EDZ, respectively), on the turret (50 EDZ), as well as in the front of the on-board rubber screens (from 10 to 43 EDZ per board).

Machines with KDZ were adopted in 1984 and received the T-55MV/AMV index. The weapon system on them remained similar to the T-55M...

P.S...to partially make it Ukrainian-the information that is in the containers from Kontact-1 can...the DZ "Knife" is installed...if you find such information...

 

 

Fair enough. I only said Ukrainian because it’s offered by Ukraine as an upgrade package which I can see you have a picture of as well. I couldn’t find anything else off of it.

 

https://www.ukrspecexport.com/uploads/files/Categories/pdf_5/be2e23.pdf

4 hours ago, Dewastor said:

 

  Why is bricky boi gone 

It’s not, I guess I added the near the same vehicle to the tree. :D

Edited by Yontzee
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6 minutes ago, Yontzee said:

First off, I’m extremely grateful you found pictures. I scoured the internet looking to find information to differentiate between other T-55’s. 
Second I only said Ukrainian because it’s offered by Ukraine as an upgrade package which I can see you have a picture of as well. I couldn’t find anything else off of it. I will make corrections though. :salute:  It’s a Soviet design that Ukraine still offered then?
 

https://www.ukrspecexport.com/uploads/files/Categories/pdf_5/be2e23.pdf

It’s not, I guess I added the near the same vehicle to the tree. :D

Spoiler

http://rnns.ru/uploads/posts/2010-01/thumbs/1264319658_230110_t55agm_01.jpg http://rnns.ru/uploads/posts/2010-01/thumbs/1264319748_230110_t55agm_04.jpg Танк Т-55АГМ. Украина - Альтернативная История Т55 АГМ - Одобрено игроками [Карантин] - Официальный форум T-55AGM - Wikipedia Советские танки Т-54/55 – китайская оценка - ВПК.name

PICTURES OF T-55 AGM INBOUND!

5 minutes ago, Yontzee said:

Still a WIP, trying to shuffle the tree around

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

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3 minutes ago, HIMARS_Enjoyer said:

The AGM is added to the tree lol. The UM will probably be moved again. Balancing act :D also the AGM is overkill for the BR I’m trying to fill around 8.7

Edited by Yontzee
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3 minutes ago, Yontzee said:

The AGM is added to the tree lol. The UM will probably be moved again. Balancing act :D also the AGM is overkill for the BR I’m trying to fill around 8.7

Better 9.0-9.7. It have firepower , compared to classic T-64, good autoloader, better survivability, in some aspects better protection.

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Added

  • BMP-1UMD

Moved:

  • BRM-1K - Moved to Researchable from Premium
  • BMP-1TS - Moved to Premium from Researchable
  • BMP-1UM - Moved to Researchable from Event
  • BMP-3 - Moved to Event from Premium

Removed (for now):

  • N/A

Additional Thoughts:

  • Vehicles with the label 'Zaslin APS' in the tree use an indigenous hard-kill APS developed by Ukraine This is an advanced hard-kill active protection system used by the Ukrainian military, as well as being adopted by the Turkish Land Forces. The list is here:
    • T-64BV (Zaslin APS)
    • BTR-70DI (Zaslin APS) 
    • BMP-64: I've not seen pictures of it with the APS equipped however it is known to be able to equip the Zaslin hard-kill APS. If anyone has images of this, please let me know and I'll add to the suggestion.
  • The following vehicles are equipped with the Shtora-1 soft-kill APS or derivative:
    • T-84U Oplot
    • T-84 Oplot-M
    • T-84 Oplot-T
    • T-84-120 'Yatagan'
    • T-72MP (Optional)
    • BMT-72
  • Updated the first part of the suggestion to show Ukrainian technology developments in all three areas: Ground, Air, and Sea.
  • Looking for a way to incorporate the Otaman-3 IFV, BTR-4MV1, and/or the Varan IFV without flooding the tree with IFV's.

Bronetransporter-Otaman-.jpg

NGO Practika's Otaman-3 IFV with an older variant of the BM-7 'Parus' Remote Combat Module during testing.

0-2-min-1-1140x753.jpg

Ukroboronprom's BTR-4MV1 on display with the BM-7 'Parus' Remote Combat Module.

Techimpex_APC_Varan_Spys_turret_2.jpg

Techimpex Varan 8x8 IFV with 'Spys' Manned Combat Module.

Edited by Yontzee
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On 16/12/2022 at 06:17, Raiden_Black said:

 


Just want to add to this.
Russian TT is already oversaturated. And there are many other variants, new vehicles and prototypes still left to be added to the Ru tree.
Adding a whole Ukrainian sub tree will make the Ru tree even more bloated.
Its a better idea to add a separate Ukrainian tree with a Polish sub-tree or vice versa, Polish tree with Ukrainian sub-tree.     :good:

+1

Put some Russian bias where it can fight Russian bias! :lol2:

That and a TT that could have Leopard, Abrams, K2, and both  of the Russian MBT lines would make something interesting to grind…

A Polish Tree could include some South Korean stuff thinking about it…

Edit: to clarify as that’s terribly worded, pretty much anything Eastern European would have a not negligible quantity of Russian hardware, which would not necessarily be on the same side as Russia. A Polish TT w/UA or a Ukrainian TT with /PL would have the T-64 and descendants  and T-72 and descendants (or at least Polish and Ukrainian modifications of both families), Polish Abrams (M1A2 SEP v2 I think?), Leopard 2 (PL, A4, and A5 I think?), and the SK K2/K2PL (whatever those will ultimately be) Black Panthers that were ordered a few months back. And presumably the MLRS and SPG systems that were in part or fully purchased from SK.

Edit 2: A Polish TT with or without UA would have an impressive high/top tier, and some low tier stuff (they actually had some tanks when Germany/Russia invaded, and the Shermans used by Poles in the British Army, and the Hetzer used during the Warsaw uprising would be a start for low/mid tier)

Edited by DEERE317
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Values.jpg.bb541720f7c9e4190f1f193795a44

Rough ERA protection values which includes: Nizh-LM, 4S20U (Kontact-1), 4S22U (Kontact-5), Nizh-1M, and Duplet-2M.

 

  • I just want to put this out there to show some additional technology advances by the Ukrainian Defense Industry. This is from the article 'Ukrainian Defense Review #4 [October-December 2018]' which routinely provides updates on the Ukrainian Defense Industry and maintains official channels with state organizations. This image shows some protection values of Nizh or Nozh ERA versus 4S20U (Kontact-1), and 4S22U (Kontact-5) inserts. Ukrainian ERA developments have really came a long way and provide superior protection against multiple types of munitions. Nizh-1M which is superior to Kontact-5 is often seen on the T-64BM 'Bulat', T-64BM2 'Bulat', the T-72AMT, as well as the T-84U Oplot. Duplet-2M however is still relatively new, and is only seen mainly on the BM-Oplot, T-64BM1M, and T-64E. Not all inclusive list. Duplet-2M offers extreme protection and is at least on par with Relikt ERA. Some sources have Duplet-2M as superior to Relikt ERA and closer to but less than Malachite ERA, however all three forms of ERA are still very much classified and actual protection values and exact material composition are unknown . I can at least confirm that Duplet-2M is superior to Kontact-5 and Nizh-1M. This information is to provide a comparison of capability, not to start any issues so lets keep it at that. I bring this up because there’s talk about Ukrainian technology being less advanced which on the contrary is untrue, as the Ukrainian defense industry offers very modern solutions. The ERA advances on top of Hard-kill APS capability with the Zaslin APS offers advanced protection. Not including advances in fire control and munitions. ‘Why does Ukraine not use more of this equipment/material?’, mainly due to budget constraints as the GDP is only around $200 billion with many other priorities.
  • Source: https://issuu.com/ukrainian_defense_review/docs/udr4_magazine
  • Essentially, the BM-Oplot in overall protection at the minimum, most likely matches armor protection levels of the T-90M.
  • Bonus image of BRDM-2 with 'Amulet' Combat Module. The Amulet features the Barrier-212 system and has two ready-to-fire RK-2 anti-tank missiles.

PTRK-Amulet-na-shasi-BRDM-2.jpg

Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20200304082417/https://mil.in.ua/uk/news/kb-luch-predstavyv-ptrk-amulet-na-shasi-brdm-2/

Edited by Yontzee
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8 hours ago, DEERE317 said:

+1

Put some Russian bias where it can fight Russian bias! :lol2:

That and a TT that could have Leopard, Abrams, K2, and both  of the Russian MBT lines would make something interesting to grind…

A Polish Tree could include some South Korean stuff thinking about it…

Edit: to clarify as that’s terribly worded, pretty much anything Eastern European would have a not negligible quantity of Russian hardware, which would not necessarily be on the same side as Russia. A Polish TT w/UA or a Ukrainian TT with /PL would have the T-64 and descendants  and T-72 and descendants (or at least Polish and Ukrainian modifications of both families), Polish Abrams (M1A2 SEP v2 I think?), Leopard 2 (PL, A4, and A5 I think?), and the SK K2/K2PL (whatever those will ultimately be) Black Panthers that were ordered a few months back. And presumably the MLRS and SPG systems that were in part or fully purchased from SK.

Edit 2: A Polish TT with or without UA would have an impressive high/top tier, and some low tier stuff (they actually had some tanks when Germany/Russia invaded, and the Shermans used by Poles in the British Army, and the Hetzer used during the Warsaw uprising would be a start for low/mid tier)

My man. You actually researched stuff. It's very rare nowadays.

 :good:

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te98wtrtjpa91.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&a

A battle-damaged Ukrainian T-72AV.

npm2uhe4p7n91.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&a

Camouflaged Ukrainian T-72AV.

 

  • The Ukrainian Army uses some T-72AV's however they are not common. A T-72AV is a standard T-72A equipped with Kontact-1 ERA. In 2021 a new model of T-72AV, dubbed the T-72AV zr. 2021 has been introduced. Many features of the zr. 2021 are the same given to the T-64BV zr. 2017/T-80BV zr. 2018 including new Gunner's thermal imager (usually a TPN-1-TPV Thermal Imager), communication sets, and more. The T-72AV zr. 2021 does not feature the capability to fire GL-ATGM's like the Kombat missile. Noticeable difference from the standard T-72AV and the T-72AV zr. 2021 is the lack of the IR searchlight. If I can find more information on the T-72AV, mainly images, I will do a suggestion on it as well as possibly use it as a researchable or premium in the tree.
Edited by Yontzee
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59 minutes ago, Yontzee said:

te98wtrtjpa91.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&a

A battle-damaged Ukrainian T-72AV.

npm2uhe4p7n91.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&a

Camouflaged Ukrainian T-72AV.

 

  • The Ukrainian Army uses some T-72AV's however they are not common. A T-72AV is a standard T-72A equipped with Kontact-1 ERA. In 2021 a new model of T-72AV, dubbed the T-72AV zr. 2021 has been introduced. Many features of the zr. 2021 are the same given to the T-64BV zr. 2017/T-80BV zr. 2018 including new Gunner's thermal imager (usually a TPN-1-TPV Thermal Imager), communication sets, and more. The T-72AV zr. 2021 does not feature the capability to fire GL-ATGM's like the Kombat missile. Noticeable difference from the standard T-72AV and the T-72AV zr. 2021 is the lack of the IR searchlight. If I can find more information on the T-72AV, mainly images, I will do a suggestion on it as well as possibly use it as a researchable or premium in the tree.

I looked at the T-64 branch...you also do not have, as in the USSR, for example, the first serial model T-64 (1964)...

Spoiler

RncOC.jpg

What is the meaning of using the T-64A (1971) copies of the USSR tree...you can at least T-64A (1972) with NSVT...

Spoiler

Qa3nX.jpg

Now they are used-at least the sample of 1980...

 

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2 hours ago, ZVO_12_INCH said:

I looked at the T-64 branch...you also do not have, as in the USSR, for example, the first serial model T-64 (1964)...

Reveal hidden contents

What is the meaning of using the T-64A (1971) copies of the USSR tree...you can at least T-64A (1972) with NSVT...

Reveal hidden contents

Now they are used-at least the sample of 1980...

 

This tree is subject to modification as new ideas/vehicles are introduced." - Stated from the suggestion disclaimer.

"As I stated in the disclaimer, the tree is fluid with vehicles able to be added or removed. I’ll see what I can do with it after some more looking into :salute: " - Stated from a previous comment of mine. 

 

When I first created the suggestion, I wanted to get a good format out with the option to change things as people brought in new ideas. I really like these ideas for the T-64 and will happily use them. 

 

I'm not sure if I should have the original T-64 (1964) as a premium because of its uniqueness or in the research tree. It would make a nice premium to offer an MBT option around 8.7 like many other nations and I don't want to overwhelm the tree with T-64's. Trying to get into the head of Gaijin developers :lol2:

231118236_8.3-10.0Line.jpg.3fbbb8b31ed1d

 

Edited by Yontzee
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34 minutes ago, Yontzee said:

" This tree is subject to modification as new ideas/vehicles are introduced." - Stated from the suggestion disclaimer.

"As I stated in the disclaimer, the tree is fluid with vehicles able to be added or removed. I’ll see what I can do with it after some more looking into :salute:" - Stated from a previous comment of mine. 

 

When I first created the suggestion, I wanted to get a good format out with the option to change things as people brought in new ideas. I really like these ideas for the T-64 and will happily use them. 

 

Help you with early modifications of the T-64A...http://armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/Modern/T64/1971/

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Going to make the following changes soon:

 

Added

  • Object 432 (Premium)
    • It is an original T-64 from 1964 equipped with a 115mm main gun. BR 8.7.
  • T-64A (1972)
    • Similar to the T-64A (1971) in-game with the exception of an added NSVT Anti-aircraft machine gun. Will replace the 1971 model. 

Moved:

  • T-80BV (zr. 2018) moved to Rank VI, BR 10.0.
    • Due to the fact its still a standard T-80BV but with better thermals. Vehicle will start with Kontact-1 ERA already equipped with a (zr. 2018) thermal imager modification, making it the T-80BV zr. 2018.
  • T-64BM1M moved to Rank VII, BR 10.3.
    • Due to the fact its equipped with Duplet-2M ERA which is supposedly on par if not better than Relikt. It does not have thermals and maintains the original sights of the T-64B1, so it balances out to 10.3. 

Removed (for now):

  • T-64A (1971)

 

Edit: I'm going to stop commenting these after this post. If I change anything major I will post a comment. As a bonus, here is some images of a Ukrainian T-72BV, equipped with Kontact-1 ERA and the ZSU-23-4M-A1 'Rokach' featuring thermal imager, laser rangefinder, 4x Igla surface-to-air missiles, and an enhanced 360-degree RADAR:

Screenshot_2-4-2.jpg

d5d629f1f618e1ea.jpg

Edited by Yontzee
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34 minutes ago, tricakill said:

I voted "no" because I dont want to play Russia again, all different vehicles should go to Soviet Tech Tree

This isn’t Russia, it’s Ukraine. Anyways appreciate the feedback.

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10 minutes ago, tricakill said:

I didnt say its Russia, I said I dont wanna play Russia again because majority are russian/soviet vehicles

You said “I don’t want to play Russia again” which is fine, I know there’s copy and paste in there. I respect that. I wouldn’t say it’s Russia or a majority Russia though. There’s 75 vehicles, 34 of which are Soviet origin, the rest are Ukrainian modified. 

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1 hour ago, Alpratya said:

just added to USSR tech tree, i don't want seperated tech with same vechiles. Yeah like Taiwan in Chinese tech tree

NATO bois will first scream "Ukraine is OP, delete it from USSR TT!!!" when T-64 will eat their APFSDS one by one

Edited by HIMARS_Enjoyer
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3 minutes ago, DEERE317 said:

Would this addition also add ammo capacity for loose (improper storage in the hull/turret) and the turrets becoming part of the strategic rocket forces most of the time to the Russian tanks?

Some vehicles yes :lol2:

Edited by Yontzee
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