ukraine Ukraine Ground Forces Tree

[leroyonly 4,311]

Guys, keep it on topic. I know that this will stay as a rather volitile topic for the foreseeable future however do keep politics out of it. So far most of you guys have been keeping this suggestion on-topic, please keep it that way. I also cleaned up some of the off-topic stuff.

[Sarmatiko 673]

2 hours ago, Mahiwew said:

You can only imagine the issues that could arise with the arrival of Ukraine, which is why I highly doubt Ukraine is a top priority now.

This is just your imaginary assumptions. If we would interpolate your theory any further, Gaijin should completely remove US, British, French, Italian, German, Swedish tech trees because they all are part of or allied with NATO and Russian population considers them all as enemies. "Oh noes, how we could have all those nations in the game, it would 100500% alienate the Russian playerbase! Quick remove them while no one is offended"
But thing is - no one cares. This theory simply does not hold water.

If anyone will have issues with AFU symbols - Gaijin already has mechanisms to hide specific decals in specific regions. If someone will have issues with Ukraine itself - well then, tough luck, get over it.

Edited January 9, 2023 by Sarmatiko

[Mahiwew 529]

7 minutes ago, Sarmatiko said:

This is just your imaginary assumptions. If we would interpolate your theory any further, Gaijin should completely remove US, British, French, Italian, German, Swedish tech trees because they all are part of or allied with NATO and Russian population considers them all as enemies. "Oh noes, how we could have all those nations in the game, it would 100500% alienate the Russian playerbase! Quick remove them while no one is offended"
But thing is - no one cares. This theory simply does not hold water.

If anyone will have issues with AFU symbols - Gaijin already has mechanisms to hide specific decals in specific regions. If someone will have issues with Ukraine itself - well then, tough luck, get over it.

This is absolutely ridiculous and ignoring issues that occur.

Especially at the start of the war, you'd see vehicles with Z's and those with UA flags trying to ruin each other's game, even if on the same team.
You also ignore the fact there is an active war going on where people are actually dying. You seem to forget why Gaijin had to remove teamkill in 2014 and mute chat on several occasions recently. There is an actual reason why the addition of Ukraine could prove very troublesome.

If no one cared, then these measures wouldn't have been taken.

Indeed, I agree that people shouldn't get obsessed over political matters in a video game that isn't supposed to involve them, but the case is that people will and have been causing problems due to the 2014 incidents and recent war. You cannot be so ignorant to say these are imaginary assumptions.

[Sarmatiko 673]

20 minutes ago, Mahiwew said:

There is an actual reason why the addition of Ukraine could prove very troublesome.

No, this is only you trying to find superficial "reasons" against adding Ukrainian tree to the game.

Also please find another thread to discuss ongoing conflict - your comments starting to look like deliberate sabotage. We are discussing Ukrainian tech tree and vehicles, not politics.

 

I'm here to read about specific vehicles, not some dude's ramblings about the reasons why Ukrainian tree shouldn't even be in the game because someone insignificant somewhere in Podunk town might get offended (because they are offended literally from anything).

Edited January 9, 2023 by Sarmatiko

[Mahiwew 529]

4 minutes ago, Sarmatiko said:

No, this is only you trying to find superficial "reasons" against adding Ukrainian tree to the game.

Also please find another thread to discuss ongoing war - your comments starting to look like deliberate sabotage. We are discussing Ukrainian tech tree and vehicles, not politics and ongoing conflicts.

That's just silly, look at things realistically.
Trees aren't added randomly, they get looked at first.
Do they have enough interest? Do they have room for expansion? Do they have enough unique stuff to warrant an addition? 
Ukraine just so happens to be much more controversial than any other suggested trees on this forum due to their unfortunate modern circumstances.
If you've ever read my comments about the matter, you'll come to notice I'd prefer Ukraine be an independent tree over being added to the USSR. Making presumptions about other people's biases is poor sport and devolves a genuine conversation into something stupid.
Clearly I won't change your mind, nor will you mine, so I'll leave this back and forth to this.

[Sarmatiko 673]

5 minutes ago, Mahiwew said:

Do they have enough interest? Do they have room for expansion? Do they have enough unique stuff to warrant an addition? 

Yes on all questions.

 

Now, I wonder, why, as "an avid supporter of Yugoslav TT", you are lurking in Ukrainian TT thread and advocating against it with superficial reasons? Is Yugoslav TT discussion gone stale and not interesting anymore? If you don't care about Ukrainian TT, why hang out here and derail the discussion into politics?

[Mahiwew 529]

Just now, Sarmatiko said:

Yes on all questions.

 

Now, I wonder, why, as "an avid supporter of Yugoslav TT", you are lurking in Ukrainian TT thread and advocating against it with superficial reasons? Is Yugoslav TT discussion gone stale and not interesting anymore? If you don't care about Ukrainian TT, why hang out here and derail the discussion into politics?

I don't "lurk" this thread, I enjoy looking at the Other Nations tab for ground forces and this just so happens to be the most active one recently.
Rather than personal attacks or provocations, slinging statements at me that I'm too political while I simply state the obvious as to what could hinder this tree from being added, perhaps look at things more objectively and look from the perspective of other people.
I fully understand your interest in this tree and these vehicles for example. Now try to understand why people perhaps wouldn't want this tree.
Some people consider this too similar to USSR/Russian vehicles present in game (which is silly, but relatively understandable when you take into account that people's definition of copy/paste differs per individual). Some people don't like smaller trees and want only larger ones to be added (like said potent Yugoslav tree, wink wink). Some people don't want a controversial tree in game, obviously being those that hate the country for whatever reason.

Again, I am done with this conversation, just had to react to this tasteless comment.

[Sarmatiko 673]

I'm absolutely sure that Russian playerbase can handle the addition of Ukrainian tech tree to the game like normal and adequate human beings. Inventing "controversies" and "inadequate reactions" only speak volumes about those who make these baseless assumptions.

We'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

[Thatz 637]

Please try to take on topic to the suggestion at hand without bring in politics.
The comment section is to discuss the tech tree itself not politics, understandably Ukraine's current situation is highly political but everybody needs to remember follow the rules. If you need a refresher you can view the rules here: 

On top of that please review the game rules as Team killing or harassing other players is against the in-game rules (regardless if they have a decal/vehicle you do not like):
https://warthunder.com/en/community/gameRules/
_{If you get team-killed in game please report them via the in-game report function.}

I would like to direct the conversations back on track towards just talking about the suggestion as a whole. Whether you agree or disagree with the suggestion you are free to voice your opinion however leave the politics or anything of that sort at the door before commenting.

[DEERE317 78]

 

 

At this rate we should just combine every tree’s top tier and give it the Ukrainian flag.

[Yontzee 1,676]

Ukrainian Army 9P148 Konkurs tank destroyers in digital camouflage. There isn't too many images of this vehicle with this camo pattern. 

 

 

Edit: In regards to potential vehicle donations such as the Challenger 2, I'm going to wait before adding them to the future vehicle section until they are confirmed to be in Ukrainian hands. 

Edited January 10, 2023 by Yontzee

[DEERE317 78]

Happy Ukrainiboo here!

[Sarmatiko 673]

43 minutes ago, Raiden_Black said:

wonder what happened to all the PT-91s, Poland announced they'll deliver last year?

Officially PT-91s were delivered back in July (undisclosed number of vehicles).

[Raiden_Black 1,875]

27 minutes ago, Sarmatiko said:

Officially PT-91s were delivered back in July (undisclosed number of vehicles).

No ... I am aware of the delivery announcement news but none of it have been delivered yet to Ukrainian soil yet. Only Polish T-72M1s, Grads, 2S1s, Dziks, Osa and S-125s have been delivered are in use till date.
Did some digging and found out that, its likely that, PT-91s are still in refurbishing phase and are yet to be delivered (in process of delivery). Most likely will reach Ukraine same time as the T-72EAs from Excalibur Army.
And no visual confirmation of PT-91s have surfaced since as well.
Slovenia announced in September that they'll transfer their M-55s and videos of its use in Ukraine already started appearing in December ...
Every recent vehicle/weaponry delivery has been confirmed via some sort of visual confirmation, be it German Dingo, Canadian ACSV, Spanish Melara Mod 56, Slovakian Zuzana 2 etc etc.
But none of PT-91s

Edited January 11, 2023 by Raiden_Black

[Colerend 225]

BTR-80 with 4 SPG-9's

[HIMARS_Enjoyer 182]

6 hours ago, Colerend said:

BTR-80 with 4 SPG-9's

 

With skilled loader it is rocket spammer

[Raiden_Black 1,875]

On 11/01/2023 at 16:11, Raiden_Black said:

^{( wonder what happened to all the PT-91s, Poland announced they'll deliver last year? )}

behold ...
Leopard 2A4UKR



spot the difference ...



 

Spoiler

 

Edited January 12, 2023 by Raiden_Black

[Raiden_Black 1,875]

Ukrainian BTR-3E 8x8 FSV with a Cockerill CSE 90LP turret
Trialed by Thai Army

[Yontzee 1,676]

1 hour ago, Raiden_Black said:

Ukrainian BTR-3E 8x8 FSV with a Cockerill CSE 90LP turret
Trialed by Thai Army

Nice find 

[ZVO_12_INCH 492]

4 hours ago, Raiden_Black said:

behold ...
Leopard 2A4UKR



spot the difference ...



 

Reveal hidden contents

 

The most interesting thing is that most likely it will be so!...M-55S...

Spoiler

 

Edited January 12, 2023 by ZVO_12_INCH

[Raiden_Black 1,875]

2 hours ago, ZVO_12_INCH said:

The most interesting thing is that most likely it will be so!...M-55S...

Reveal hidden contents

 

To Ukrainian Army, any Tank without ERA is like a Pepperoni Pizza without the Pepperoni.

[DEERE317 78]

1 hour ago, Raiden_Black said:

To Ukrainian Army, any Tank without ERA is like a Pepperoni Pizza without the Pepperoni.

I think that’s all Eastern European armies

[Colerend 225]

15 hours ago, HIMARS_Enjoyer said:

With skilled loader it is rocket spammer

Just hire the guy from M50 Ontos. Easy as that

[Azinfriit 663]

The same way Russia is a subtree in the Soviet tech tree, Ukraine could be too. Any other form is totally illogical.

[TheNexonRegime 429]

24 minutes ago, Azinfriit said:

The same way Russia is a subtree in the Soviet tech tree, Ukraine could be too. Any other form is totally illogical.

 

Russia is the direct successor to Soviet Russia, they are not a subtree to it.

[Azinfriit 663]

1 minute ago, TheNexonRegime said:

 

Russia is the direct successor to Soviet Russia, they are not a subtree to it.

 

There's no "Soviet Russia" in this game, but Soviet Union, it's literally the name of the tech tree. And guess who else is a successor to the USSR? Ukraine.

 

We also have many in-game examples that make Ukraine inviable as it's own tech tree, such as East/West Germany and China/ROC. This is the precedent.

 

I'm just being factual with you. If there's ever Ukrainian vehicles in this game, they should be in the Soviet tech tree.