Fixing the Italian tree

[Kosher_Locust 120]

It's late at night so I toss and turn haunted by memories of the past, and of course I begin looking up World War Two airplanes.  God I'm lonely.

 

It's bugged me for some time the Italian tech tree is sparse and has some weird BR ratings, especially with the G.56.  It's a superb airplane, but it's been moved to 6.7 while armed with only 3 20mm cannon squaring off against jets.  Evaluations during the war said it outperformed the 109K, but in game the stats place it between  the 109K and triple cannon Fw 190 D-13.  In other words BR 6, which as I recall is where it started.  A lot of the upper tier Italian planes don't get much use despite having some good performers. 

 

However since the game tries to follow reality (somewhat) the Italians were an independent force until the armistice of 1943, taking them out of the war fairly early.  They continued with the Axis as the Italian Social Republic which was a German puppet state and had the National Republican Air Force (ANR) while the allies had the Italian Co-belligerent Air Force (ACI).  The ACI and ANR never met in combat, the ACI fighting over the Balkans, while the advanced Italian planes were manufactured for the ANR.  The ACI does mean US/British planes could be in the tech tree, but there's already a lot airplane spam---who didn't fly the BF-109 at some point?

 

The Italian air force was also small, the total losses were around 6,400 aircraft while the Germans built 34,000 copies of the 109 alone, and the most common Italian planes were the CR.42 and G.50.  Nevertheless let's see what we can do.  I'm primarily looking at fighters, there weren't many bombers of note:

 

The most solid part of the Italian line is at BR 2:  2 G.50's, 2 C.200's and 2 Re.2000's.

 

Below BR 2 it's the CR.42s, I'd add in the Ambrosini SAI.207, a plane very similar in performance to the C.R.714 but with twin 12.7 guns.

 

At BR 3/3.3 we have the C.202, C. 205 serie 1, and 2 re.2001's. I'd add in the CR42.DB.  This was the fastest biplane ever built with a DB 601A engine and could do 325 MPH.  One example was made and in photos it looked pretty darn cool.  Also the Italians flew some French aircraft so the add in the D.520 of which they flew some examples.

 

At BR 4/4.3 it's the Re.2001 CN and C. 202EC.  I'd add in the Ambrosini SS.4, this was a pusher plane like the XP.55, armed with 2 20mm and 1 30mm cannon, however it wasn't a high performer so 4.0 would be the upper end.  Also include the SAI.403B "Dart," which came with two 12.7 guns and either 15mm or 20mm MG151 cannons.  So it could start out with 15mm and offer 20mm as an upgrade.  Both of these planes had single copies built, but lots of planes in WT derive from single copies or prototypes.

 

BR 4.7/5.3 is pretty solid, the G.55 sottoserie 0, G.55 serie 1, C. 205N2, and the premium G.55S and Bf 109 G-2

 

BR 5.7/6.3 gets tricky. 

 

At BR 5.7 you have You have the Re.2005 serie 0 and premium Bf 109 G-14/AS at 5.7.  I'd add in the  Re.2004, a 2005 using a domestic engine and about the same performance

 

At BR 6 I'd place the G.56 and add in the Re.2006, a 2005 which used the DB603 engine and was partly built if I recall.

 

At BR 6.3 would be the M.C.207, a 205 with quad 20mm cannon and the DB603, and the G.59, a post-war G.56 with a Merlin engine fairly close to the DB603 and also quad cannon.  Oddly the G.59 was mostly seen as a trainer which shows how quickly it was obsolete.

 

This still leaves a big gap from 6.3 to 7.7 with the Vampire, but better than the G.56 standing there by itself.  The only candidates I can think of for this are trainer jets that can carry armament like the Aermacchi MB-326 or MB-339, but this breaks the pattern of higher BR being newer aircraft as they're much later than the higher tier jets.  

 

Other premium/gift/whatever planes that could be stuck in:

 

IMAM Ro.51 at BR 1.7 (2 12.7 guns)

Caproni Vizzola F.4 at BR 3 (2 12.7 guns)

Caproni Vizzola F.6m at BR 3.7 (4 12.7 guns)

R.2005R  at BR 6  A "motorjet" variant of the Re.2005 using a piston engine to drive the compressor for a jet.  Sketchy as I don't think it was ever built but projected to do 470MPH 

 

So there.  I'm sure I got something wrong but close enough for a forum post.

Edited January 8, 2023 by Kosher_Locust

[Razielkaine 4,876]

A long post about not having enough stuff but then you don't really offer anything much to fix it.

[Kosher_Locust 120]

5 hours ago, Razielkaine said:

A long post about not having enough stuff but then you don't really offer anything much to fix it.

And apparently didn't read it, either.  Only proposed adding in 12 domestic planes to add more variety and competitiveness and have 4 planes at BR 6/6.3 rather than a lone over tiered plane at 6.7.  Just came up empty on entry level jets as the obvious candidate of the Me 262 wasn't slated for Italy until June of 1945 when the bullets had stopped flying.  But hey, if you want to be sarcastic and have nothing to add yourself that seems a regular "feature" on these forums. 

[LukTroy 124]

1 hour ago, Kosher_Locust said:

And apparently didn't read it, either.  Only proposed adding in 12 domestic planes to add more variety and competitiveness and have 4 planes at BR 6/6.3 rather than a lone over tiered plane at 6.7.  Just came up empty on entry level jets as the obvious candidate of the Me 262 wasn't slated for Italy until June of 1945 when the bullets had stopped flying.  But hey, if you want to be sarcastic and have nothing to add yourself that seems a regular "feature" on these forums. 

The Re.2005 MM.495 VDM is a perfect candidate for Br. 6.0/6.3. Thanks to the VDM propeller it could reach 720 km/h in horizontal flight and it wouldn't be hard to model, as it's just a standard Re.2005 with a different propeller. When it comes to jets, Italy could get the iconic Aermacchi variants. Early variants could be placed at tier V early, because of their low max speed (806km/h), 1800kg of not very advanced suspended weaponry and has to rely on gunpods to have any cannons. The later variants (Mb326k, Mb339k) could be placed at late tier V or early Tier VI. They were armed with 2x 30mm cannons, could carry air to surface missiles, rockets and bombs. They're also slighty faster (890km/h).

[Razielkaine 4,876]

3 hours ago, Kosher_Locust said:

And apparently didn't read it, either.  Only proposed adding in 12 domestic planes to add more variety and competitiveness and have 4 planes at BR 6/6.3 rather than a lone over tiered plane at 6.7.  Just came up empty on entry level jets as the obvious candidate of the Me 262 wasn't slated for Italy until June of 1945 when the bullets had stopped flying.  But hey, if you want to be sarcastic and have nothing to add yourself that seems a regular "feature" on these forums. 

I really wasn't being sarcastic, I see planes named but nothing new that will change much.  I don't have any issue with new content for Italy, don't get me wrong just Italian air isn't that fruiful

[Kosher_Locust 120]

5 hours ago, LukTroy said:

The Re.2005 MM.495 VDM is a perfect candidate for Br. 6.0/6.3. Thanks to the VDM propeller it could reach 720 km/h in horizontal flight and it wouldn't be hard to model, as it's just a standard Re.2005 with a different propeller. When it comes to jets, Italy could get the iconic Aermacchi variants. Early variants could be placed at tier V early, because of their low max speed (806km/h), 1800kg of not very advanced suspended weaponry and has to rely on gunpods to have any cannons. The later variants (Mb326k, Mb339k) could be placed at late tier V or early Tier VI. They were armed with 2x 30mm cannons, could carry air to surface missiles, rockets and bombs. They're also slighty faster (890km/h).

I like these ideas.....

[LukTroy 124]

3 minutes ago, Kosher_Locust said:

I like these ideas.....

Honestly I'm very surprised that they haven't added a single variant of the Aermacchi jets. 800 of the mb.326 were made alone, and it was used by 16 nations.

[Kosher_Locust 120]

3 hours ago, Razielkaine said:

I really wasn't being sarcastic, I see planes named but nothing new that will change much.  I don't have any issue with new content for Italy, don't get me wrong just Italian air isn't that fruiful

 

Fair enough, and yeah, nothing's really a game changer.

[Kosher_Locust 120]

Just now, LukTroy said:

Honestly I'm very surprised that they haven't added a single variant of the Aermacchi jets. 800 of the mb.326 were made alone, and it was used by 16 nations.

I've been thinking that also, a lot of people who want to do old school dogfighting in the lower jet tiers would prefer light attack jets or turboprops like the PA-48 Enforcer.