Jump to content

Oerlikon-Bührle AG 20 mm Vierlings-Flabpanzer Lpz 51, Swiss Shilka before it was cool


CaID
 Share

Would you like the VFlab Lpz 51 be added to the game?  

21 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you like the VFlab Lpz 51 be added to the game?

    • Yes
      19
    • Yes as premium/event
      1
    • No
      1


aXNViaF.jpg

 

i would like to make a suggestion for a rather unique tank, the Swiss VFlab Lpz 51

mmGbsMh.jpg

the Oerlikon-Bührle AG 20 mm Vierlings-Flabpanzer or just VFlab Lpz 51 for short was a development of Oerlikon-Bührle AG to create a highly mobile SPAA with high firepower. this alpine monster was featuring a high fire-rate of 1000 rounds for each gun and it have 4 of them. this mean a river of fire of 4000 rounds each minutes. built on the Lpz 51 chassis (Swiss designation for the AMX 13). first presented to the public on  May 14th, 1959 it participated to the army corp parade. the tank feature a new turret with radar. this make it comparable to the Russian ZSU-23-4 Shilka who was only introduced in 1965. this make not only a unique design but also a innovative design.

the design was initially ordered to production in 1960 with 24 tanks of pre-production, later the order was rose to 80 vehicles which was supposed to equip the entire swiss anti-aircraft units. however, the introduction of the Mowag 1 tonnes vehicle give the Swiss army a better capacity to tow the static 20mm gun which made the VFlab Lpz 51 be judged unnecessary for the defense capacity of Switzerland. the orders was soon cancelled.

 

 

 

 

Firepower

the armament was nothing less than 4x 20mm Oerlikon fliegerabwehr Kannon 54 which was a modern post war auto-cannon. the gun feature a pretty high fire-rate and velocity which make it pretty effective against ground and air targets. the gun also feature a pretty good penetration which is superior to the WW2 rounds and a high elevation. this gun's main use was only the anti-air defense but some ammunition allow it to be used against ground targets as well with some interesting effect. the turret also feature a radar but neither the type and or capacity of this radar is know. the ammo load is also unknown and so is the gun's elevation. 

 

4x 20mm Flab Kan 54
Capacity (magazine) firerate Vertical Horizontal Stabilizer Rotation speed (°/sec) Reload (sec)
unknown (4x 50) 4x 1000 unknown ±180° N/A unknown unknown
 
Penetration statistics
Belt Penetration @ 0° Angle of Attack (mm)
10 m 100 m 500 m 1,000 m 1,500 m 2,000 m
Type SSBL/K 2 2 2 2 2 2
Type PSBH/B 39 37 24 15 10 5
Type PLKH 56 53 37 26 19 14
Shell details
Ammunition Type of
warhead
Velocity
(m/s)
Projectile
Mass (kg)
Fuse delay
(m)
Fuse sensitivity
(mm)
Explosive Mass
(TNT equivalent) (g)
Ricochet
0% 50% 100%
Type SSBL/K HE 1050 0.127 0 0.1 7.6 79° 80° 81°
Type PSBH/B APHE 1100 0.128 0 0.1 5.4 47° 60° 65°
Type PLKH APCR 1150 0.112 N/A N/A N/A 66° 70° 72°

 

Mobility

sadly there is no information about this tank's weight,  this is because there is no details given about this vehicles. but the weight is probably around 17 tonnes. but this is a long guess only based on the picture and the knowledge of the weight of vehicles of the same base and same size (like the AMX Mk.62). this should give a power-weight fairly lower than the AMX 13 on which this tank was based. but still give enough mobility for a light tank. the tank is powered by the same sofam 270 hp engine as the AMX 13 and would still give the same top speed. in overall, this tank will feature a pretty good mobility

 

Max Speed (km/h) Weight (tons) Engine power (horsepower) Power-to-weight ratio (hp/ton)
Forward Reverse 270 15.88
60 7 about 17

Protection

the Armour of the turret is unknown, but is likely offering a minimal armour to immune it against most shrapnel and LMG fire. this mean about 15mm on the front and 12mm on the side and rear. the chassis is well know and is the same as the regular AMX 13. this make this tank a still decently protected SPAA with a protection similar to the Zsu-23-4 to which this tank would be easily compared. the crew is unknow but probably include 5 men. 1 driver, a gunner, a commander and 2 loader in the turret.

 

Armour Front (Slope angle) Sides Rear Roof
Hull 20 mm (66°) Upper glacis
40 mm (cylindrical) Transmission carter
20 mm (51°) Lower glacis
20 mm Sides 15 mm (1°) Top
15 mm (44°) Bottom
20 mm (24°) Front glacis
10 mm Centre
10 mm (5°) Rear
5 mm Vents
Turret 15 mm (32-47°) Turret front
20 mm (conical) Gun mantlet
12 mm 12 mm 12 mm

 

Specifications
Mass 13.7 t (30,000 lb) empty
14.5 t (32,000 lb) combat
Length 6.36 m (20 ft 10 in) with gun
4.88 m (16 ft 0 in) hull
Width 2.51 m (8 ft 3 in)
Height 2.35 m (7 ft 9 in)
Crew 3 (Commander, gunner and driver)

Armour 10–40 mm (0.39–1.57 in)
Main
armament
4x 20mm Oerlikon fliegerabwehr Kannon 54
Secondary
armament
2× 2 smoke grenade dischargers
Engine SOFAM Model 8Gxb 8-cylinder water-cooled petrol engine
250 hp (190 kW)
Power/weight 16 hp/tonne
Suspension Torsion bar suspension
Operational
range
400 km (250 mi)
Maximum speed 60 km/h (37 mph)

 

 

source

https://twitter.com/ninja998998/status/1174576222287695874?lang=en

https://www.recherche.bar.admin.ch/recherche/#/en/archive/unit/1444756

https://docplayer.org/39497605-Those-who-cannot-remember-the-past-are-condemned-to-repeat-it-wer-die-geschichte-nicht-kennt-ist-dazu-verurteilt-sie-zu-wiederholen.html

 

Weapons

Hide contents

https://www.bevfitchett.us/machine-gun-v5/oerlikon-kaa-formerly-gk.html

https://militaerfahrzeuge.ch/unterkategorie_26_34_340.html

Edited by CaID
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Technical Moderator

image.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Technical Moderator
9 minutes ago, Rambolf said:

Honestly by this point why havent they added the swiss as their own stand alone tree... theres clearly enough to add with the amount on CaID's tree suggestion and all they've posted so far combined... +1

problem is the air tree, they only have enough for 3 lines ish

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, blockhaj said:

problem is the air tree, they only have enough for 3 lines ish

wasn'T a problem for Sweden

medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Rambolf said:

Honestly by this point why havent they added the swiss as their own stand alone tree... theres clearly enough to add with the amount on CaID's tree suggestion and all they've posted so far combined... +1

and i didn't yet started on the Piranha and Shark familly. they have a dozen variants each for the high tier.

medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Technical Moderator

switzerland is the mekka of armored prototypes

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, blockhaj said:

switzerland is the mekka of armored prototypes

i belive they also have a fair number of prototype aircrafts too. not as many but still a handful

medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Technical Moderator
1 minute ago, CaID said:

i belive they also have a fair number of prototype aircrafts too. not as many but still a handful

they do, but still not as many as ground vehicles

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, blockhaj said:

they do, but still not as many as ground vehicles

the essential is they do have some interesting fighter and CAS. even if they do not have a ton of them. some tech tree have good airforce and terrible ground force and some are the other way around. but regardless the Swiss is still a matter of consideration. if we want to beef up the tech tree, the Austrian can always be added. they also have a bunch of vehicles on their own. on the aircraft too, the Austrian had before the annexation to Germany, a bunch of CR.32 and CR.32bis, as well as the IMAN Ro.37 and a few other planes. after WW2 Austria imported a few planes from Sweden such as the J-29 and J-35 as well as a few other.


Austria and Switzerland do have good relation as much cultural, Comercial and military.  a lot of military industry in Austria are having their root in Switzerland.

medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its quite true the Swiss air tree is pretty slim, I should know considering I worked a while making one.  You'll get 3 lines, some grab bag stuff from Germany, USA, France, and Britain with some unique loadouts and modifications, but there isn't a whole lot available.  Their unique stuff like the D-3800, C-3600, P-16, and Aiguillon are actually really good planes, plus the Pilatus trainers are an interesting idea.  Top tier you'll get Mirages and F-5s, but they'll pretty much have to add the 2-seater versions as well to bolster the lineups.

 

In terms of this tank, its been a flippin nightmare to try and find information for.  Very few sources have anything on it, and I've only discovered very scant info from e-periodica.ch either which is kind of the main source for a lot of Swiss things.  We still don't know what the radar specs are, though I have a hunch its related to an early development of the Super-Fledermaus but that is an ****-pull.  Thank you CaID for making posts about Swiss vehicles!

Edited by Doctah_Whoopass
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just now, Doctah_Whoopass said:

Its quite true the Swiss air tree is pretty slim, I should know considering I worked a while making one.  You'll get 3 lines, some grab bag stuff from Germany, USA, France, and Britain with some unique loadouts and modifications, but there isn't a whole lot available.  Their unique stuff like the D-3800, C-3600, P-16, and Aiguillon are actually really good planes.  Top tier you'll get Mirages and F-5s, but they'll pretty much have to add the 2-seater versions as well to bolster the lineups.

 

In terms of this tank, its been a xxxx nightmare to try and find information for.  Very few sources have anything on it, and I've only discovered very scant info from e-periodica.ch either which is kind of the main source for a lot of Swiss things.  We still don't know what the radar specs are, though I have a hunch its related to an early development of the Super-Fledermaus but that is an ****-pull.  Thank you CaID for making posts about Swiss vehicles!

keep me in touch and consider the posibility to add the Austrian. a alternative version may be good to see all the option. the Austrian do not have much plane but they still have some meat to add on rank 1 and rank 5 to 8

  • Confused 1
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just now, CaID said:

keep me in touch and consider the posibility to add the Austrian. a alternative version may be good to see all the option. the Austrian do not have much plane but they still have some meat to add on rank 1 and rank 5 to 8

I definitely will!

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Adr_Farling said:

+1 swiss tree with austrian line would be great to have.

i believe so

 

i made a potential version of a future tech tree here.

 

https://caidwarthundertechtree.neocities.org/swiss_tt

 

4 line that is pretty stuffed. it offer some good line up here and there.

Edited by CaID
  • Like 1
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, CaID said:

i believe so

 

i made a potential version of a future tech tree here.

 

https://caidwarthundertechtree.neocities.org/swiss_tt

 

4 line that is pretty stuffed. it offer some good line up here and there.

Damn looks good.

Would really be an interesting tree to come!

medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Adr_Farling said:

Damn looks good.

Would really be an interesting tree to come!

eventually it could get a Austrian sub-tree. switzerland and Austria share a lot of tie in common. many Austrian military industry have their roots in switzerland and making them together make sense to me.

 

this is what the Austrian-Swiss (or we could call it the Alpine tree) could look like

https://caidwarthundertechtree.neocities.org/swiss-austrian_tt

 

the addition of the M24 do give the tree some more conventional firepower in the lower rank. that is something that Switzerland lacked, they had armoured car and auto-cannon tanks at around this BR but no proper tank. still do not have a medium tank for this BR but i can live with that.

 

an i really want this MEME Schwarzenegger's M47 who could have Anold Schwarzenegger's voice acting "Ze target iz deztroye!" with his Austrian accent.

Edited by CaID
  • Confused 1
  • Upvote 1
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, CaID said:

eventually it could get a Austrian sub-tree. switzerland and Austria share a lot of tie in common. many Austrian military industry have their roots in switzerland and making them together make sense to me.

 

this is what the Austrian-Swiss (or we could call it the Alpine tree) could look like

https://caidwarthundertechtree.neocities.org/swiss-austrian_tt

 

the addition of the M24 do give the tree some more conventional firepower in the lower rank. that is something that Switzerland lacked, they had armoured car and auto-cannon tanks at around this BR but no proper tank. still do not have a medium tank for this BR but i can live with that.

 

an i really want this MEME Schwarzenegger's M47 who could have Anold Schwarzenegger's voice acting "Ze target iz deztroye!" with his Austrian accent.

Is there any other tree you're working on now for that website? 

 

medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Mahiwew said:

Is there any other tree you're working on now for that website? 

 

https://caidwarthundertechtree.neocities.org/

 

each tree can take serial weeks to do, a tech tree like the Swiss took me 2 weeks with 5 to 10 hours a day just to gather the information, and there is a bunch of mistake i spoted, but nothing major (like the reload been too long or the stabilizer not been indicated)

medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...