Keeping randos out for the first 10 minutes: exploitable?

[Bruce_R1 2,118]

Since the original post has been locked, maybe we can continue this discussion here. Certainly it seems to be something people who want to try being commander should be considering.

"Squadron players have priority to enter their operation within the first 10 minutes of its start, during which time random players will not be able to join the operation through the main World War menu. Accordingly, if squadron players take all 80 available places in their operation during the first 10 minutes and will play in that composition until the end, no random player will be able to join them as was the case with previous global battle list mechanics."

So because there's no real laddering, anyone who pays their 70 SL and starts an operation, just to try it out, could face a Borg Cube squadron with up to 80 players ready to smash, and have no one (or only a couple squad friends possibly) playing on their side for the first 10 minutes of battle. This would seem on its face to reward strats that could take advantage of no players on the other side for the first 10 minutes. In the current Nordwind map in particular I think I could see a strat that would make a victory guaranteed in 10 minutes, if I thought the other side didn't have any (or only a few) players for that length of time. (It also means if you think that's you, the best chance of getting your 70 SL back is a delay strat that buys time until randoes start flowing in 10 minutes in. I don't see one of those in Nordwind yet, because all the objectives are already on the front line).

So this may be a step in the wrong direction, because it would seem to potentially close off the commander mode only to a relatively small number of people in a small number of large squadrons, making this much more of a duelling ground for the big squadrons than people may have anticipated. In this model, smaller to midsize squadrons might focus instead on building their battlegroups of 10 to ronin it around rather than trying to field competitive teams with a commander.

Anyway, we'll see if the rule set is the same when this finally launches. Maybe people realized the inherent problem here after the first 90 minutes?

[Josephs_Piano 7,044]

It seems extreme - it will certainly reward larger better organized squadrons over everyone else - my own squadron is pretty informal and unorganized, and TBH I'd probably never start another operation again because of this.
 

Edited February 9, 2023 by Josephs_Piano

[DmGordeev 349]

On 09/02/2023 at 16:51, Bruce_R1 said:

So because there's no real laddering

There is a leaderboard and it's taken into account when selecting opponents. Although at this moment it can match a top-10 squadron and a newcomer together in one operation (but they will have to wait a very long time for the match), but it's better than not being able to play at all.

Perhaps 10 minutes is too long, but so far we don't have any meaningful feedback on this.

[Bruce_R1 2,118]

38 minutes ago, DmGordeev said:

There is a leaderboard and it's taken into account when selecting opponents. Although at this moment it can match a top-10 squadron and a newcomer together in one operation (but they will have to wait a very long time for the match), but it's better than not being able to play at all.

Perhaps 10 minutes is too long, but so far we don't have any meaningful feedback on this.

It might not be so bad in other operations with some depth to surrender in those first battles, but in this one, with all 3 objectives right on the front line, I don't see how it wouldn't lead to a German win by any motivated team (unless it's facing an equally motivated one) every single time, if I'm being honest. (Or a US win, if the other team was just a commander or a commander and a couple friends, and they had 30 players queued up to roll).

Edited February 10, 2023 by Bruce_R1

[DmGordeev 349]

On 09/02/2023 at 16:51, Bruce_R1 said:

In the current Nordwind map in particular I think I could see a strat that would make a victory guaranteed in 10 minutes

If your cunning tactic is to quickly attack three enemy entrenched infantry armies in key sectors with infantry armies, then I dare say that during the movement of these infantry armies on the enemy, all three tank armies from nearby sectors have time to come to the key sector for additional protection:

Also, if there are 80 players in one team and 0 in the other, this means that no more than 2 battles can be active in the operation. That is, you will not be able to start the third battle until you finish the first one. This is additional time for the movement of the remaining armies.

 

1 hour ago, Bruce_R1 said:

It might not be so bad in other operations with some depth to surrender in those first battles, but in this one, with all 3 objectives right on the front line, I don't see how it wouldn't lead to a German win by any motivated team (unless it's facing an equally motivated one) every single time, if I'm being honest. (Or a US win, if the other team was just a commander or a commander and a couple friends, and they had 30 players queued up to roll).

If you want to say that the operation is simply poorly balanced, then we will find out after a successful launch.

[Bruce_R1 2,118]

23 minutes ago, DmGordeev said:

we will find out after a successful launch

Fair, I could be wrong of course.

 

Can you give us any sense how long we might be waiting now for the second attempt? Is next weekend still a possibility?

[Bruce_R1 2,118]

44 minutes ago, DmGordeev said:

all three tank armies from nearby sectors have time to come to the key sector for additional protectio

Also, just to be clear, I wasn't saying the operation would end in the first 10 minutes, just that it would be a loss after that. Assuming an organized squadron with even 20 players against the 0-3 a solo operation commander could count on, I was thinking you could take the middle objective and remove that army and a second US infantry army in one of the other objectives at either end of the line in those first 10 minutes. And you only need exclusive control over two objectives to win.

 

Yes the US player could pour 2 armored units in to the two end-objectives to keep them being lost immediately and the operation ending, but after those preliminary moves, that would leave 4 mobile German armies to 2 US, plus a big hole blown in the center. Seems unrecoverable, but then again we haven't seen the reinforcement schedule or the exact army compositions yet so there could certainly be other factors at play.

Edited February 10, 2023 by Bruce_R1

[DmGordeev 349]

2 hours ago, Bruce_R1 said:

Is next weekend still a possibility?

We count on it. I think we will make an announcement on Tuesday. I also hope that next week DDoS activity will be reduced and will not interfere with us.

 

2 hours ago, Bruce_R1 said:

Also, just to be clear, I wasn't saying the operation would end in the first 10 minutes, just that it would be a loss after that. Assuming an organized squadron with even 20 players against the 0-3 a solo operation commander could count on, I was thinking you could take the middle objective and remove that army and a second US infantry army in one of the other objectives at either end of the line in those first 10 minutes. And you only need exclusive control over two objectives to win.

To be fair, the squadron with 80 members will always win against the squadron with 80 randoms in operation no matter when they entered the operation.

 

2 hours ago, Bruce_R1 said:

Yes the US player could pour 2 armored units in to the two end-objectives to keep them being lost immediately and the operation ending, but after those preliminary moves, that would leave 4 mobile German armies to 2 US, plus a big hole blown in the center. Seems unrecoverable, but then again we haven't seen the reinforcement schedule or the exact army compositions yet so there could certainly be other factors at play.

Be that as it may, if you count on losing all your battles, you cannot count on winning the operation. But I see how total defeat even in the first 5 battles around key sectors does not mean instant defeat in the operation after them. There are enough free armies here to hold the last key sector if you want to fight to the end even against a strong enemy.

[Bruce_R1 2,118]

6 hours ago, DmGordeev said:

We count on it. I think we will make an announcement on Tuesday. I also hope that next week DDoS activity will be reduced and will not interfere with us.

 

Thank you once again for the helpful information.