Navigatori-class destroyer, Nicoloso Da Recco (late 1942), the WWII survivor

[LukTroy 124]

Nicoloso Da Recco in early 1942

 

 

The Navigatori-class "esploratori" were built in 1928-1929 to counter the large destroyers of the French Navy, the Jaguar and Guépard classes. 

Designed by general of naval engineering Giuseppe Rota, the class featured a stronger armament, higher speed, displacement, and range than the previous classes of Italian destroyers.

However, while being fast, the destroyers were found to have stability problems. Because of that, all but two of the Navigatori class destroyers were rebuilt with clipper bows, lower superstructure and increased beam.

These modifications fixed the stability problems, but made the speed go down to only 28 knots. One of the two destroyers that did not have their hulls modified for stability, was the Nicoloso Da Recco. Her speed went from 38 knots to 33 knots after the modifications.

The Navigatori-class, compared to the previous classes of italian destroyers, were armed with six guns, instead of four, and 120/50 Ansaldo 1926 instead of the older 120/45 Odero-Terni-Orlando guns. Compared to the previous 120/45 Odero-Terni-Orlando guns, these guns had a higher muzzle velocity, fire-rate and the mounts allowed for an elevation of 45°, allowing for anti-aircraft fire to some degree. The anti-aircraft initially consisted of eight 13.2 Breda Model 1931 in twin mounts and two 40/39 Vickers-Terni cannons in single mounts, but later was upgraded to various combinations of 37 mm and 20 mm Breda cannons, at the cost of a torpedo launcher. Some also received a radar.

 

Service history of the Nicoloso Da Recco

• 20/05/1930 : short training period before returning back to the shipyard, to make her lighter and modify the superstructure to improve stability
• 1936/1938 : during the Spanish Civil War, she was stationed in Tangier, Cadiz and in the waters of the western Mediterranean
• 03/1939 : Da Recco was in Tripoli and in April of the same year she operated in Albania
• 22/10/1939 : after having been part of the Naviglio of the Command School, she left for Taranto, where she had once again been deployed as Head of the 16th Squadron. She moved to Leros and remained in the Aegean until 4/30/1940. After returning to Taranto, the 16th Squadron was placed under the 8th Division of the 1st Squadron and, with it, Da Recco operated in Albania in May
• 07-09/07/1940 : protection from a distance of convoys to Libya. In the afternoon of the 9th, she took part in firing at enemy planes attacking the 1st Naval Squadron, returning from the Punta Stilo battle.
• 04/03/1941 : took part in the bombardment of the Greek-Albanian coast. On March 26, she went out to participate in the mission south of Crete, which culminated in the battle of Cape Matapan. On her return, on 29 March, she carried out a close escort to the battleship Vittorio Veneto hit by a torpedo.
• summer 1941 : transferred to Palermo to escort Libyan convoys in the Sicilian channel. Carried out escorts to convoys and isolated units, rescue of shipwrecked people, hunt for enemy submarines by launching jet torpedoes, rapid transport of troops and materials, protective cruises and outings in support of national aircraft and ships performing mine barrages . To her credit the shooting down of numerous enemy planes; of these, four during a single attack on 6/21/1942 while escorting a convoy from Naples to Tripoli.
• 02/11/1942 : during a rapid transport of ammunition from Taranto to Tobruk, the Da Recco formation was attacked by enemy bombers and torpedo boats. A torpedo launched by one of these at close range fell on the deck towards the bow, fortunately without exploding, but breaking apart and causing a certain amount of damage to the deck. The plane was shot down
• 01/12/1942 : she departed from Palermo to escort to Tripoli a convoy of four steamers loaded with troops together with the torpedo boats Procione and Clio and the destroyers Folgore and Camicia Nera. During the night, aided by radar and aircraft-launched flares, three enemy cruisers and six destroyers suddenly swooping upon the convoy, opened intense fire on the Italian vessels. The escort units, after trying to cover the merchant ships with smoke screens, launched an attack against the enemy ships, opening fire and launching torpedoes. The destroyer Folgore was sunk and the Da Recco was stopped by two hits in the bow which caused the explosion of the ammunition depot resulting in a very serious fire in the forward part. The merchant ships were sunk while the Da Recco, in flames, remained stationary and fortunately was not attacked again. During the night the crew managed to limit the fire and, once the engines were back in motion, were able to head slowly towards Trapani, also helped by the destroyers Da Noli and Pigafetta come out to help her

• 09/01/1943 - 26/06/1943 : After twenty days in Trapani, she moved to Taranto where she remained in the arsenal

• 07/1943 : she returned to service, performing escorts to Navy units that were laying mine barriers in the waters of the Ionian Sea.

• 08/09/1943 : at the time of the proclamation of the armistice, she was in Taranto and the following day he moved to Malta on the basis of Allied orders.

During 3 years of war, she sailed 68.318 miles, taking part in 176 missions, of which 70 were escorting and protecting other ships

 

In the post-war period, due to the difficulties of land transport and destruction cause by the war, she was used as a rapid transport of people and materials between Taranto and Naples first, and then between Catania and Malta from 25/9/1945 to 7/2/1946 . Returning to Taranto and, moored at the torpedo boat quay, she concluded his activity in that port. In fact, although she was no longer used in the open sea, she remained in service for a few more years.

 

 

Why I'm proposing her?

Yes, we already have a Navigatori-class destroyer in-game, however I don't think the Da Verazzano is a good destroyer, because of it's very low speed and poor AA. Nicolotto Da Recco, in her late 1942 configuration would be a better fit for her Battle rating. She eliminates some of the weaknesses of the Da Verazzano, at the cost of 3 torpedoes, which weren't that good anyway. Her AA armament consists of 9x 20 mm cannons and 2x 37 mm Breda cannons, which is pretty good, and her speed is 61 km/h, which is on-par with other destroyers, and much better than the Da Verazzano's 52 km/h. She also has a radar, which would make it easier for her to know about the presence of enemy aircraft.

 

general specifications ( late 1942)

• Displacement : standard 1900 t; Full load 2599 t.
• Full length : 107,3 m.
• Draught : 3,4 m.
• Breadth : 10.2 m
• Machinery : 2 sets Tosi geared steam turbines, 4 Odero boilers, 50.000 h. p.
• Max speed : 33 knots.

 

Armament and equipment 

• 3x2 : 120/50 Ansaldo mod.1926
• 2x1 : 37/54 Breda 1939
• 2x1 : 20/70 Scotti-Isotta Fraschini 1939
• 7x1 : 20/65 Breda 1940
• 1x3 : 533 mm torpedo tubes
• 2 depth charge racks
• EC.3/ter radar

Comparison of Lanzerotto Malocello (1943), Leone Pancaldo (1943) and Nicoloso Da Recco (1944)

 

Sources

https://digilander.libero.it/carandin/darecco.htm

https://www.lavocedelmarinaio.com/2016/12/1-12-1942-regio-cacciatorpediniere-da-recco/

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicoloso_da_Recco_(cacciatorpediniere)

https://www.navypedia.org/ships/italy/it_dd_navigatori.htm

https://naval-encyclopedia.com/ww2/italy/italian-destroyers-of-ww2.php

Edited May 21, 2023 by LukTroy

[super_cacti 1,071]

Open for discussion 

[Milocat 4,857]

+1, definitely want this ship added to the game!

[Conte_Baracca 4,547]

I fully support more updated versions of ship classes implemented in the game.  This Navigatori would be meaningfully different from the one in game.  +1 I wants it.

[ZackZooter 55]

On 20/04/2023 at 05:21, Conte_Baracca said:

I fully support more updated versions of ship classes implemented in the game.  This Navigatori would be meaningfully different from the one in game.  +1 I wants it.

I want it so much that i basically started getting tired of using Comandante DD 1st batch as Italian's only tech tree anti-air DD these days, Geniere is premium USA lend-lease DD with post-war configuration BUT this one is fully Italian armed AA guns and the other DD armed with 37mm Breda Autocannon other than some cruisers... 

 

FYI.. in my view.. Honestly, Italian warships except some cruisers that i haven't played at, is placed at overrated BR by 0.3 higher as it warship is basically not decent enough to even outlast average its peer not to mention sometimes it struggles against 0.3 lower BR Destroyer than Italian warships used in game

 

(RN Aviere for example struggles against most 3.7 DD despite only truly capable on 3.7 BR limit as Italian's firepower only advantage IF used wisely is APHE which only useful once it hits critical ammorack and such would be effective)

 

Basically using Italian APHE on Italian DD is basically like a tank trying to snipe another tank at over 10km distance despite only capable of effectively hitting a 4km target w/out modern long-range scope, at least on my experience of getting a very very rare luck of ammoracking moffett and battle-class DD over 8km range

[jon_man1199 563]

A +1 from me, would be quite nice to see more Italian Destroyers implemented. Interestingly after Recco was decommissioned there were attempts to get the ship preserved as a Museumship but these unfortunately never came to fruition.

[LukTroy 124]

On 19/04/2023 at 23:21, Conte_Baracca said:

I fully support more updated versions of ship classes implemented in the game.  This Navigatori would be meaningfully different from the one in game.  +1 I wants it.

I believe this would be the best version of this class. Compared to the Leone Pancaldo, it's much faster and it has one additional torpedo.

[ZackZooter 55]

6 hours ago, LukTroy said:

Compared to the Leone Pancaldo, it's much faster and it has one additional torpedo.

Correction... It actually loses 1 torpedo overall in return for getting AA refit in 1942...

 

On 04/04/2023 at 00:55, LukTroy said:

Armament and equipment 

• 3x2 : 120/50 Ansaldo mod.1926
• 2x1 : 37/54 Breda 1939
• 2x1 : 20/70 Scotti-Isotta Fraschini 1939
• 7x1 : 20/65 Breda 1940
• 1x3 : 533 mm torpedo tubes
• EC.3/ter radar

This kind of AA refit would at best symbolize low-level BR 4.3 at best due to countering high DD-level intense battle as this plane & bomber at this BR is make this AA refit not good enough as Comandante DD but still better than all Italian DD AA level except Geneire (ex-USA DD)..

 

Italian DD need at least ADDITIONAL 4 quad flakvierling gun armed on GIS 811 boat or at least 8 single 37mm Breda gun or at least 12 single Pom-pom placed evenly on broadsides along with currently armed AA guns in order to survive high-intense warfare on 4.0-5.0 BR match

 

FYI... related to what i just wrote, Japanese would need at least 12 single 25mm type 96 AA gun or 8 twin or 6 triple... For mixed firepower, need 6 twin type 98 20mm gun found on Ha-GO gunboat, 4 triple 25mm type 96 AA gun and 6 single old 40mm Pom-pom in average in order to survive 4.0 to 5.0 BR match

 

In short, Italian AA guns mostly similar to Japanese except they have decent 37mm Breda Autocannon which even surpass type 96 AA gun..

For fair comparison in my experience, an Italian cruiser armed with 4 twin 37mm Breda Autocannon alone are equal to japanese cruiser armed with 6 triple & 12 single type 96 AA gun overall

[LukTroy 124]

10 hours ago, ZackZooter said:

Correction... It actually loses 1 torpedo overall in return for getting AA refit in 1942...

The Leone Pancaldo has 2 torpedo tubes, this one has 3 of them. I'm talking about the Navigatori class suggested before, and passed to the developers.

I believe the AA of this vessel is decent for BR4.3.

Edited April 23, 2023 by LukTroy

[ZackZooter 55]

7 minutes ago, LukTroy said:

I believe the AA of this vessel is decent for BR4.3.

IF players using this ship are facing low-level intensity naval warfare against boat and plane, this aa refit would be decent BUT otherwise mostly its not enough to even deter average 4.3 

 

FYI... low-level intensity naval warfare means no sudden preemptive strike from ambushing torpedo boat OR plane that carries bomb would be slow enough to dodge 20mm AA firepower... At least in my view

 

when it comes to mounting torpedo tubes.. you're right but overall it only has 1 triple... Because u know that this ship loses 1 triple torpedo tube for this AA refit in 1942 which commonly known... 

 

 

[LukTroy 124]

2 minutes ago, ZackZooter said:

IF players using this ship are facing low-level intensity naval warfare against boat and plane, this aa refit would be decent BUT otherwise mostly its not enough to even deter average 4.3 

 

FYI... low-level intensity naval warfare means no sudden preemptive strike from ambushing torpedo boat OR plane that carries bomb would be slow enough to dodge 20mm AA firepower... At least in my view

 

when it comes to mounting torpedo tubes.. you're right but overall it only has 1 triple... Because u know that this ship loses 1 triple torpedo tube for this AA refit in 1942 which commonly known... 

 

 

I still believe the Da Verazzano should go down to 4.0, and this should take its place at that battle rating. There are BR4.3 vessels which much worse AA capabilities, like the Yugumo, Hatsuharu, HMS Kelvin and Aigle.

[ZackZooter 55]

Not only Da Verazzano need to be downtiered, Aviere need to to 3.7 & premium RN Geneire too, RN Dardo to 3.3 as well in overall capability..

 

Aside from Italian cruisers, only Comandante DD, RN Aquilone and premium ex-USA Geneire DD are worth its BR...

 

FYI... most of Japanese warships aside from Coastal & some Cruiser also should be downtiered

[Taffu92 557]

Last modification of the Navigatori class would really be a fine addition to the game.

 

The lack of the rear mast would really improve the usefullness of the rear gun (now forced to do a full turn on both the Condottieri and the Da Vezzano) and the improved AA wolud put it on par with other 4.3-4.7 DDs.

 

As you said torps are basically a last resort CQC weapon against larger ships, so they won't be missed.

[ZackZooter 55]

1 hour ago, Taffu92 said:

wolud put it on par with other 4.3-4.7 DDs.

More like on par with BR 4.0-4.3 DD level match with plane flying under 2km height JUST like Japanese type 96 AA gun except Italian have older 20mm Scotti which houses 20 rounds and 37mm Breda Autocannon that quite excellent but still weaker than contemporary USSR 37mm or 40mm BoFors or even unstoppable 37mm Flak Lafette level that forces bombers drop bombs over 2km range instead as minimal distance...

 

Italian DD's that basically worthy of its BR and can at least deter higher BR plane is Comandante DD & Geneire (ex-USA DD) so far... Until newer ship got added with nearly as capable AA firepower as these 2 DD's

[Taffu92 557]

4 hours ago, ZackZooter said:

Italian DD's that basically worthy of its BR and can at least deter higher BR plane is Comandante DD & Geneire (ex-USA DD) so far... Until newer ship got added with nearly as capable AA firepower as these 2 DD's

 

For the other DDs in the Tech Tree use sequential fire, it really helps a lot while trying to land as many shells as possible, but, still, both the italian destroyers and the japanese ones are heavily skill dependant (this will apply even for future french DDs)

 

AA wise we can't hope for much unless they add the post WWII machines that Italy built.

Italian shipbuilders were really blinded by the idea of immediate air support from the mainland to focus on upgrading the air defence of many ships.

Only by the end of the war they understood how powerfull those machines could be to their fleet.

Edited April 27, 2023 by Taffu92

[Hetaeron 287]

The Navigator class, Nicoloso Da Recco (late 1942), with this armament:

• 3x2 : 120/50 Ansaldo mod.1926
• 2x1 : 37/54 Breda 1939
• 2x1 : 20/70 Scotti-Isotta Fraschini 1939
• 7x1 : 20/65 Breda 1940
• 1x3 : 533 mm torpedo tubes
• 2 depth charge racks
• EC.3/ter radar

She would make a good ship at BR 4.3.

[OpusAudereSemper 80]

+1 needed in tech tree, also it would be greeat if added in all versions/refit

[ZackZooter 55]

In her 1943 configuration the Leone Pancaldo was armed with:

3x2 120/50 Ansaldo mod.1926
2x1 37/54 Breda mod.39

9x1 20/65 Breda

1x2 533 mm torpedo tubes

2 depth charges racks.
E.C.3/ter Radar.

 

In comparison with its relatives, Leone Pancaldo, There are a bit difference overall...

 

IN my honest opinion, Having 20/70 Scotti-Isotta Fraschini 1939 is quite an advantage over Breda as it seems that it haves a bit more rounds of 20 overall unlike Breda's 12 rounds..

 

BUT still the only difference i don't know is its gun emplacement... any AA guns concentrated place but didn't cover critical dangerous place makes it unable to counter sudden strike as Italian dont have any 30mm gun mounts to act as quick, medium caliber AA defense WHILE having only having 2 single 37mm Breda Autocannon is NOT enough to deter even rank 2 torpedo bomber, not to mention high speed fighter bomber

 

Hence, either of these does make quite good BR 4.0 AA destroyer at best WHILE being placed on BR 4.3 seems quite OVERSTRETCHED but barely qualify at luckiest as Italian's firepower is quite inferior as we know it... IDK about French firepower aside from wielding 5.4inch gun on Destroyers (138mm gun)...

[LukTroy 124]

4 hours ago, ZackZooter said:

In her 1943 configuration the Leone Pancaldo was armed with:

3x2 120/50 Ansaldo mod.1926
2x1 37/54 Breda mod.39

9x1 20/65 Breda

1x2 533 mm torpedo tubes

2 depth charges racks.
E.C.3/ter Radar.

 

In comparison with its relatives, Leone Pancaldo, There are a bit difference overall...

 

IN my honest opinion, Having 20/70 Scotti-Isotta Fraschini 1939 is quite an advantage over Breda as it seems that it haves a bit more rounds of 20 overall unlike Breda's 12 rounds..

 

BUT still the only difference i don't know is its gun emplacement... any AA guns concentrated place but didn't cover critical dangerous place makes it unable to counter sudden strike as Italian dont have any 30mm gun mounts to act as quick, medium caliber AA defense WHILE having only having 2 single 37mm Breda Autocannon is NOT enough to deter even rank 2 torpedo bomber, not to mention high speed fighter bomber

 

Hence, either of these does make quite good BR 4.0 AA destroyer at best WHILE being placed on BR 4.3 seems quite OVERSTRETCHED but barely qualify at luckiest as Italian's firepower is quite inferior as we know it... IDK about French firepower aside from wielding 5.4inch gun on Destroyers (138mm gun)...

The main advantage of Da Recco, compared to Leone Pancaldo, is the max speed. A 9 km/h advantage is quite significant. Da Recco also gets an additional torpedo tube (2 vs 3).

[ZackZooter 55]

On 08/05/2023 at 23:18, LukTroy said:

The main advantage of Da Recco, compared to Leone Pancaldo, is the max speed. A 9 km/h advantage is quite significant. Da Recco also gets an additional torpedo tube (2 vs 3).

High speed is a must for a weak-armored DD to outflank superior enemy ship since Italian mostly dont armed with 135mm gun found on Comandante DD can barely fight such opponent even if there are two ship of them together using 120mm gun plus 1 more torpedo at least would help out BUT still not enough against ships with good torpedo bulge protection.. It would took at least 8 torp hit to seriously sink such ship with good, protected torpedo bulge.

 

Just saying here.. It would be fantastic if there are Italian Destroyer that undergoes refit that including at least 3 single 37mm Breda Autocannon or anything similar while still armed with symbolized Italian's 20mm gun..