Planned Battle Rating changes

[Stona_WT 72,761]

Dear players! We appreciate your feedback and suggestions. In the recent BR update we continued to introduce our approach to gradually increase the Battle Ratings of the top- and pre-top vehicles. This approach allows us to identify solid leaders and outsiders by combat efficiency and make corresponding adjustments to the planned BR updates. This time we are updating the BR 9.7+ vehicles (including a few 9.3 vehicles) in order to reconsider BR 9.3-9.7 vehicles and below. Thanks to your feedback, we’ve also noticed a few rank III vehicles (such as Comet and T-34-85), which also had their BR updated. 

 

As for the Harrier GR.1 (1) efficiency, it could have a higher rating, but due to the massive feedback we decided to reduce its BR to 9.7 both in RB and SB. We will closely monitor its efficiency after this update. We have also noticed your suggestions concerning the G.91Y (1,2). At the moment we are working on the new weapon menu, including new air-to-surface munitions for this aircraft. This requires specific model updates, and new weapons to be introduced to the game in one of the upcoming updates. Also, the previously announced BR updates for Fw 190 D-12 and Ta 152 C-3 (1, 2, 3, 4) in RB mode will also not be introduced yet: although these aircraft remain BR rise candidates, we decided to wait and monitor their efficiency a little more.

 

Some aircraft receive their BR updates in accordance with their modifications: The American F-8E (USA) gets BR 10.0 in SB, same as the French F-8E(FN); Chinese F-5A gets its BR 10.7 in RB, same as the F-5E. After the F4U-1A (USA), the British Corsair F Mk II and Japanese F4U-1A will have their BR lowered to 3.3 in SB. Although we agree with your suggestions to lower the BR of the AH-6M, but only in the AB. Further changes of ground vehicles and helicopters will take us further research.

 

We were pleased to hear your positive feedback on the top-tier Enduring Confrontation mode. Other BR changes in the SB mode will also support the variability for all rotations regardless of the week. Unfortunately, some of your suggestions did not take into account the possible encounters for the minimum BR value. However, after analysing the feedback and statistics, we decided to increase Ariete's BR to 9.0. At the same time, we do not plan to lower the BR of the C.202 EC in the upcoming rating updates, which might not correspond to SB matches at 2.3-3.7. 

 

[9] Enduring Confrontation changes will be implemented later.

[MO_Smart_Sharkon 882]

No comment on most of the changes, but I do want to make a little adjustment for...

 

F-5A (ROCAF) 11.0→10.3 RB

Yes, it was a nimble and sufficiently fast jet to handle its enemies in 11.0 in early 2021; but it's now already April of 2023, at its current BR range and having no search radar at all and having extremely few samples to prove its hopeless dilemma at current BR. It could really have a decrease to 10.3 just like its USAF counterpart with (fictitious) flares and RWR  

[xF4LC0NxPUNCHx 3,605]

Ta 152 C-3 in Air RB up from 6.3 to 6.7??? Please tell me that's a typo and you meant to write that it's going down to 5.7.

 

Or are we really trying to claim that the Ta 152 C-3 is as good or better than superprops like the P-51H and Spitfire Mk 22

[Leastseal 14]

Why is the F-5E going down to 10.7 but the chinese F-5A is staying 11.0? Not lowering the A is just making it less relevant than it already is. Plus having the superior F-5 be a lower BR than then the worse one makes no sense

[Major_Shaker 2,633]

 

3 hours ago, Monika_in_action said:

The BR expansion of ground vehicles is great, however some adjustments are needed as well:

 

2S6

Should stay 11.0

Its missile could outrange every helicopter from 9.7 (AH-1S/F with TOW2) to 10.3 (Mi-28A with 9M120 ATKA),  just overwhelming. Despite its missiles being converted to new SACLOS mechanics, it's still deadly against helicopters and drones. Besides let's just don't forget Roland carriers were raised to 10.3 a few patches earlier.

Russian would still have a rather decent 11.0 lineup but lowering Tunguska to 10.7 is a bit too much.

 

BMP-2M

9.3 → 9.7 or even 10.0

Gen 2 thermal, 4*9M133 Kornet with fire-on-move and multiple guidance capacity making it extremely unfair for other 8.7 and 9.0 to fight against this beast. With the decompression of BR, this machine could find a perfect place in 9.7-10.0 with the new 10.0 Russian lineup.

 

2S38

Finally!

 

Leopard 2A4 (All variants)

Add DM33

It would encounter heavily armored targets like T-80UM2 and T-90A in a higher frequency at the BR of 10.3. Adding DM33 is a reasonable option for balancing concerns.

 

Leopard 2PL

Stay 11.0 (Optional)

Terrible hull protection is a fatal flaw plus it's still using DM43, however could just go to 11.3 as well since there would be no proper 11.0 lineup to back it up.

 

Ariete AMV

Stay 11.3

The new 1500hp power pack doesn't necessarily make it a worthy participant at 11.7, nor making it significantly more capable than other Ariete variants.

 

Z-19/19E

Stay 10.7 or add AKD-10

AKD-9 with 6km range and relatively poor warhead is obsolete at this BR. It's toxic when played as anti-air chopper due to TY-90 spam but this should be fixed by adding SP cost for extra AAM loadout.

I would suggest for additional SP cost for extra TY-90 loadout (280 SP for 8*AAM, 0 additional SP for 4 AAM). This should still allow Z-19 series to protect themselves without being too toxic to other planes.

 

F-5A (China)

11.0 → 10.7

Considering the F-5E variants are going down to 10.7, so I see no point of F-5A with inferior engine thrust staying at 11.0. It's just a F-5A/C (10.3) with AIM-9P.

 

Char 25T

Stay 7.3 / 7.3 → 7.0

This thing is not capable of fighting cold war era MBT like T-55AM. It has no sabot or HEAT rounds, making it extremely awful to engage heavily armored targets even in close range. Its mobility would be modest at 7.7, literally taking the best part away from it. Besides, it has no stabilizer or rangefinder, moving it up to 7.7 would be quite absurd considering that Object 906 and Ikv91 stay where they were. Speaking of Object 906, it has a stabilizer and an autoloader of 4.3 seconds, literally better than Char 25T in every possible way expect protection.

 

 

I strongly agree with this guy.

 

but I think

 

2S38 

planned 10.0 - should go to 10.7-11.0

It is basically HSTV-L with tracking system, has proxomity fuse shell plus it can also scout.

 

Why are you rising BR for Otomatic?

It has no missiles, it has been nerfed numerous times and it is not comparable to 2S6 in slightest. If anything then it fits 10.0-10.7 perfectly.

 

Good call on SU-17/22

 

Helicopters

Yah-64 - should stay at 10.3

it has no flares or anti-air missiles.

 

Mi-35M - should stay at 10.3.

Its missiles cannot go farther than 6km. Unless given update.

 

Question: When do you plan to release economy changes? 

Will you do also anything in regards of Helicopter PVE balance?

 

 

Edited April 5, 2023 by Major_Shaker

[The_Bomber9009 121]

The list of BR changes looks great. I have a few suggestions though;

 

BR Changes:

 

T-80UM2: 11.0 (RB) It's just a step below the T-80U because of no thermals. 2 steps lower seems like a lot, and the tank itself is still fantastic.

 

Kfir C.7: 11.0 (RB) This plane isn't up to par with other 11.3s, even in the CAS element. Comparing it to the MiG-27K or Tornado IDS, it's clearly outclassed. It's fast, but speed doesn't get kills.

 

Ariete/PSO: Retain 11.0 BR (RB) These tanks have no armor to speak of and their firepower is on-par with NATO tanks of identical BR. Mobility is similar if not worse.

 

Ariete AMV: Retain 11.3 BR (RB) See above, but firepower is slightly worse on average.

 

OTOMATIC: Retain 11.0 BR (RB) This vehicle, oddly enough, is comparable to the 2S38 in performance and usability. The difference being it can't carry more than 12 rounds of mediocre APFSDS. Being Italy's top SPAA, it cannot effectively engage any target which moves in anything other than a straight line, and this is definitely not a better SPAA than the 2S6. Also gives a lineup with the Arietes if the aforementioned suggestions were put into place.

 

2S6: Retain 11.0 BR (RB) Fantastic missiles, guns and good radar. The reason the stats are poor is likely because of anti-tank usage which fails. It is absolutely not worthy of a whole BR step below the ADATS. I say this from personal experience of using the vehicle.

 

Bosvark: Retain 4.7 BR (RB) While being an effective SPAA, it is very weak to machine gun fire from both the air and ground. Having 2 5.0 SPAAs which lack any lineup just seems like a poor choice. Let Britain have this one, please.

 

A-6E TRAM: 10.3 (RB) This aircraft takes what the A-10 lacks and solves it. Surprisingly fast with up to 4 (usually carrying 3) AIM-9Ls which is also a larger number than that of the A-10A (Early). Up to 9 laser guided bombs for Ground RB is absurd for a BR so low as 10.0. Nothing remotely compares. Would still have a lineup with the M1 Abrams and XM975.

 

A-10A (Early) 10.3 (RB) Mavericks, GBU-8s and a big gun all make this vehicle a super effective strike aircraft. Tends to harass lower BR aircraft when in downtiers, and is a bit of a menace when fighting planes without CMs. Has lineup with M1 Abrams.

 

A-10A (Late) 10.7 (RB) AGM-65Ds are incredible missiles which can lock from very long distances, meaning this speed of this plane is negligible when you can still snipe people with your Mavericks. 4 AIM-9Ls make taking care of aircraft in downtiers a cinch with their amazing performance all-around. Has lineup with M1A1 and IPM1.

 

F-4C: 10.3 (RB) See below in "Other changes"

 

Other changes:

 

F-4C: Give countermeasure dispensers (identical to that found on the F-4J/S). Could also be given AIM-7E. This aircraft could be very effective, but is held back by the sheer number of advanced missiles around its BR. It's very sad to see it in this state, and I would love for this to be implemented. I understand if this is chosen against.

 

[JaszczombPl 121]

So to sum up.
Puma goes to 9.7 and BMP-2M stays at 9.3.
Puma will face same strong opponents but fewer easier ones (in terms of BR) because vehicles below 9.7 are mostly unaffected by the BR change.
Puma still hasn't got any fixes.
Gaijin probably wants everyone to forget that Puma exist because it will be so bad at its BR.
Please keep it at 9.3.

[przybysz86 10,312]

firstly:
another rank in air SB is huge improvement.
Most BR changes are also very good but I have some doubts regarding some.

Why are planes like F6F or F4U going down in BR?
They are already on BR way too lower and problem they have is that being so low they are often flown by people who lack experience to use them well. Putting them lower will mean that even more inexperienced pilots will fly them against even slower and more agile planes which are not what those planes are designed to fight.

By lowering their BR you actually make it worse for them since their advantage of speed starts becoming meaningless (you cant aim when you go 3x faster than your enemy) and the gap in agility grows even more.

Those planes would actually do better at 4.3 not 3.3
 

[modern_primat 182]

thank you for increasing BR of turms and Z-10 heli

 

also, abrams is good in 10.0, it has low pen.

 

also check these posts:

 

 

 

Edited April 5, 2023 by modern_primat

[Target1331 3,055]

Still missing economy reductions since over a year now.

Other than that, overall looks better than last time at a quick glance (with main focus on Air RB), as finally the Su-25s are moved up slightly. Also looks like SB is finally getting some attention.
 

Best regards,

Phil

[Russian_____Bias 215]

Realistic Mode:

2S38  10.0→10.3/10.7   With most 9.7 stuff went up to 10.0, there is no doubt this OP thing should go a bit higher.

 

OTOMATIC 11.3→11.0 The poor ammo amount and the lack of SAM made OTOMATIC the worst top-tier AA, which shouldn't stay at that high.

 

IT-1 8.3→8.7 Powerful ATGM, MBT-level survivalbility and fire-while-moving ability made this one outstands among all 8.3 ATGM carriers

 

T-34-85 D-5T  5.0→5.3 No significant difference between the 5.7 one, while thinner turret armor with broken damage model still eats ammo up to Pak-43 shells

 

Yak-3(all): Move up a rank step: Outstanding energy retention, Outstanding manuevrbility, powerful engine made these ones literally unbeatable 1vs1 at its BR

[LeChance 926]

And yet another BR change comes along and still not one single Bf 109 at F-4 or below receives a single BR increase in Arcade mode. How is this even possible when they are clearly the most OP, under BR'd planes in the entire game?? There can't be that many players doing head on's to skew the "data" . . . .  well, maybe there is, but still . . . . just from the number of 109's you see in every . . .  single . ..  game should be a clue . . . . at this point it would seem "intentional" to allow this to go on as is . . .. 

[KilianL 865]

PUMA at 9.7 is rough in my opinion. especially if its stays with stock belt it has. 

 

All the Leopard 2A4 at 10.3 I disagree with, especially if their top shells remain DM23. I want to say same for M1 but I havent played it in a while.

 

It just decompresses afterall it cant be too bad. lets see how it plays out !

 

2S38 CV90 TURMS going up is great too see.

 

RadKampfWagen im surprised it goes down but its a welcomed change for sure. 

 

Aviation wise great to see the F-5Es going down, same for Su-17s and derivatives.

 

Mirage 5F im not sure why it goes down I had a decent time in it, good to see it going down anyway. But a magic yielding no flare jet, maybe the Mirage IIIC should follow as well.

 

Lets see how this new 10.3 ground cluster plays out. glad I can put the XM975 Roland and so on back in these lineups.

 

Naval Arcade Im surprised I dont see Duguay Trouin going down, its abysmal and the destroyer feels better to play to me. 

[Deathskyz 69]

Z-19/Z-19E should get AKD-10s. Their ATGMs are the worst, especially compared to even Apaches.

[Sahilku010101@psn 62]

Tornados (all):

11.3-> 10.7

Before, it was only bad in Air battles, but now with the Pansir S1 in the game it's also bad at Ground battles too. In no modes is this thing a joy to fly, it has only 4 LGBs and 2 AIM9Ls (not to mention that 9Ls have been nerfed) and handles worse than a f104. The jaguar GR.1A has 2 LGBs at 10.3, the A10 has 4 AIM9Ls at 10.3, why can't the tornados be at 10.7 or 11.0 at least?

[TenPoundsOfSalt 649]

For ARB

F-5C : 10.3→10.7 The combination of the dubious FM and DM, coupled with the addition of flares it shouldn't have enable it to bully anything in the 9.x range, being a premium available for anyone to purchase artificially lower it's stats making it the most egregious pay to win premium in the game.

Mirage F-1C&CT&C200 : 11.3 →11.0 nowhere close to the F-14 in any way, the Viggen and MiG-23M&MF are 11.0 despite excellent flight performance and/or weaponry, the F-1 wouldn't bring anything yet unseen to the BR, and it would make it playable

A-6E TRAM : 10.0→10.7 4*AIM-9L at 10.0 is just dumb, the Harrier FSR wich is an assumed 9.7 airframe is sent to 10.7 by a pair of AIM-9L, the double standards in favour of the US needs to stop. The A-10 are tolerable at 10.0 with AIM-9Ls due to their garbage flight performance, the A-6 is a lot more capable

 

For GFRB :

Leopard I : 7.3→7.7 There is no reason for it to be at a lower BR than all of it's equivalent, the AMX-30 is 7.7, the M60 is 7.7, and the objectively worse Strv-103 is 7.7.

PT-76-57 : 8.0→8.7 The begleitpanzer was fine at 8.7 despite being unstabilized, the lack of an ATGM is not going to hold back the PT since it gets LRF/stab/thermals.

EBR 1954 : it made it to 6.7, just as everyone knew it eventually would, give it the PCOT-51P and finally leave it in peace. If it makes it to 7.0, it'll be completely overshadowed by the AML.

BMP-2M : 9.3→9.7 giving it APFSDS was just about the worst move that could have been done, this is a top tier IFV, send it to tier already.

Either give the BMD-4 or BMP-3 the 30mm APFSDS, and move the one that receives them to 9.3, that'll create more of a progression trough Soviet IFVs, as of now they are redundant.

 

For NFRB

 

Pr.50 (Yenot, Rosomacha, Karl Marx) : 4.0→3.7 Slow frigates that are cursed with a DD spawn, yet are completely unable to stand up to the average 4.0 DD, and even worse are constantly uptiered to 4.7 and up where the first cruisers start appearing. The T22 is far superior and is at 3.7.

T22 : 3.7→4.0 It enjoys everything other DDs get from 4.0 and up in term of AA coverage, the "small" 105s aren't nearly as much of a disadvantage as they seem thanks to their high RoF, RoF just so happen to be the naval meta. The Rigas are 4.0 despite being absolute garbage in comparison to the T22.

Peacock&Lé Orla : 3.7→3.3 slow frigates with a single gun that get disabled by anything that hit in the vicinity, coupled with a very low ammunition supply of 115 rounds, they'd be hard pressed to hold out against a reserve DD, they are completely helpless against a T22 or a Leopard, while the T22 is already a 4.0 in disguise, the Leopard is a proper 3.7, and a Peacock would still be incapable of killing it. The M-802 is somewhat apropriately tiered at 3.7, and the only downside compared to the Peacock is that it doesn't have a radar, and it's slower. At equal skill level, a M-802 cannot lose against a Peacock class.

MPK Pr-12412&P : 4.3→3.7 It's slow, it's massive, it's fragile, and it's supposed to go against DDs every single game, and when it's at 4.7 and above it can even meet light and heavy cruisers that it has absolutely no recourse against, even it's torpedoes are anemic since they are anti-submarine torpedoes.

 

Not a BR change but still related to naval, sort out the high tier Frigates and Torpedo/Gun boats, aside from the Lübeck and SKR they are falling very short of DDs of similar BRs. They were not created to go head on with WW2 era DDs and CLs, yet they are forced to do it by the NRB setup. The split of bluewater and coastal needs to be completed, and they need to no longer meet one another

[Ion_Protogen 48]

Overall pretty good changes, the M4A3 (105) finally went up, along with the 2S38 and Su-25s. However, 

Char25T:

Keep it at 7.3, The mobility is good, but compared to things at 8.0-8.7 it loses its mobility advantage. Its reload is good, but it is outclassed by the AMX-50 at 7.7, which has a stronger gun, is more survivable, and a much better reload. It does not have a stabilizer, or a laser rangefinder, which become common at around 8.0. 

[Blanchboi 21]

It's great to see some BR decompression! This has been needed for quite some time and it's wonderful to see it happening now! Here are a few suggestions that I have:

 

Ground:

 

2S6 - Remains at 11.0

The 2S6 was hit hard due to the recent changes to SACLOS missiles, but it does not make sense to move vehicles like the FlaRakRad, ItO, and Tor-M1, and Pantsir up to 11.7 while moving the 2S6 down. That compounds the effect of the changes so much that it is an overreaction to the current state of the 2S6. If it needs to be moved down further after seeing how it performs at 11.0, that would be fine. However, with the current changes in mind, it does not make sense.

 

OTOMATIC - Remains at 11.0

The OTO is definitely a capable SPAA, but there is no reason for it to be 11.3.

 

All Leopard 2A4s - Receive DM33

It has been long overdue to give the Leopard 2A4s their DM33 rounds. Seeing as the T-90A will be just two BR jumps away with 3BM60 and Gen II thermals, and the T-80UM2 is one BR jump away with incredible armor and 3BM46, it makes sense that they get this shell.

 

M1 Abrams - Receives M833

For the same reasons as the Leopard 2A4s receiving DM33, the M1 Abrams should receive M833. It's honestly been long overdue. M774 is a decent round, but it is not as reliable as M833 would be, especially in the new top tier environment.

 

BMP-2M - Moves up to 9.7

The BMP-2M could honestly go as high as 10.3 without issue. People bring it to top tier all the time and it still does incredibly well. There is no reason it should not go up in BR. 9.7 is at least a good start.

 

T-90A - Move up to 11.3

This is not as urgent as the others, but it still confuses me as to how the T-90A did not make it on the list of 11.0->11.3 vehicles. I understand that the T-90A is a slightly worse T-72B3, but it still has a number of attributes that make it on par with the other 11.3 vehicles.

 

Aviation: Note, none of these are urgent. These are ideas for possible future changes that I would personally like to see.

 

F-14A Early - Move up to 12.0 and receives AIM-9Ls

With the recent IRCCM nerfs to the AIM-9L, it is not nearly as overpowered as it once was. It is of course still a great missile, but I see no reason now that it could not be added to the F-14A Early. The F-14A Early could simply lose the "Early" designation and receive the missiles that showed up in the teaser trailer.

 

F-4J/S and Phantom FGR.2 - Move up to 11.7 and receive AIM-9Ls

The F-4EJ Kai and Kurnass 2000 already match this loadout. It would simply be on a set of American Phantoms and the British Phantom that carried these missiles IRL.

Edited April 5, 2023 by Blanchboi

[CptRy4nFinn@psn 57]

the bmp-2M remains at too low BR's, they ruin the experience for the rest of vehicles at their BR. 2nd gen thermals, firing several ATGM's while moving is too much. should be 10.0 as the 2s38.

 

The challenger DS should gain access to the L26 round with the increase, as it had historically, as it will face way higher armored targets than before, the 410mm of the L23 or the 380mm of the L23A1 will not be enough to be a match against many new enemies. It should also recieve the extra NERA armor package on the skirts and the frontal plate of the Challenger Mk.3, given it's a Mk.3. It should also receive updated optics - currently the challengers barely have any gunner magnification while all public documents state that their optical package gave clear LOS to up to 10km.

 

The Marder 1A3 should receive the MILAN 2, current it has the worst  ATGM in game of it's tier while facing much better equipped opponents.

Edited April 5, 2023 by CptRy4nFinn@psn

[Rollox 28]

This looks like good changes but will mess up a lot of lineups, is there anything planed to address this with compensation etc in the future?

[KrypTanko 296]

US
M60A3 TTS for US given M833 to bring it up closer to parity with other 9.0 MBT's that use DM33 and DM63 or 3BM22 which all have 400+mm of pen
XM1 C and GM given M833. move BR in RB to 9.7
M1 Abrams given M833 to bring it closer to parity with other 10.0 (well 10.3's now)
XM8 given M833 since the earlier prototype of the same tank (the CCVL) has M833 and adjust BR accordingly
AGS given M833

(note that M833 is statistically inferior to 105mm DM33 across the board coming in with a max pen of 395, where DM33 has a max pen of 408, DM63 is obviously even better as well as 3BM22. Germany gets access to DM33 as early as 8.7 yet even a 10.3 american MBT cant get the weaker M833 round)

Russia
BMP-2M moved to 9.7 in RB. The combination of APFSDS belts, 4 ready to fire 1200mm pen ATGM's that can be fired in quick succession and on the move, makes it far more powerful than any other IFV at 9.3 currently

Germany
Leopard C2 mexas given DM63 (tank served well into the 2000's and would have used better ammunition than DM33







 

[SPANISH_AVENGER 11,789]

1 hour ago, Monika_in_action said:

The BR expansion of ground vehicles is great, however some adjustment is needed as well:

 

2S6

Should stay 11.0

Its missile could outrange every helicopter from 9.7 (AH-1S/F with TOW2) to 10.3 (Mi-28A with 9M120 ATKA),  just overwhelming. Despite its missiles being converted to new SACLOS mechanics, it's still deadly against helicopters and drones. Besides let's just don't forget Roland carriers were raised to 10.3 a few patches earlier.

 

BMP-2M

9.3 → 9.7 or even 10.0

Gen 2 thermal, 4*9M133 Kornet with fire-on-move and multiple guidance capacity making it extremely unfair for other 8.7 and 9.0 to fight against this beast. With the decompression of BR, this machine could find a perfect place in 9.7-10.0 with the new 10.0 Russian lineup.

 

Leopard 2A4 (All variants)

Add DM33

It would encounter heavily armored targets like T-80UM2 and T-90A in a higher frequency at the BR of 10.3. Adding DM33 is a reasonable option out of balance concerns.

 

Leopard 2PL

Stay 11.0 (Optional)

Terrible hull protection is a fatal flaw, however could just go to 11.3 as well since there would be no proper 11.0 lineup to back it up.

 

Ariete AMV

Stay 11.3

The new 1500hp power pack doesn't necessarily make it a worthy participant at 11.7, nor making it significantly more capable than other Ariete variants.

 

Char 25T

Stay 7.3 / 7.3 → 7.0

This thing is not capable of fighting cold war era MBT like T-55AM or M60A1. It has no sabot or HEAT rounds, making it extremely awful to engage heavily armored targets even in close range. Its mobility would be modest at 7.7, literally taking the best part away from it. Besides, it has no stabilizer or rangefinder, moving it up to 7.7 would be quite absurd considering that Object 906 and Ikv91 stay where they were.

I agree with all of your points!

 

Generally, I am happy to see further decompression.

 

However, I would like to suggest one more thing;

 

T-80B: stay at 10.0, remove thermals.

 

T-80B currently has thermals based on the fact that only ONE was fitted with them, ever. I think T-80B would be a far more interesting tank without thermals; historically accurate, and gameplay wise.

 

Russia doesn’t have any other 10.3s anyway, while it has many 10.0s (including the Premium 2S38 and T-72AV (TURMS-T) now). T-80B has no place alone at 10.3, and its thermals are not a historical depiction of the vehicle.

 

So I think it would be amazing if it could stay at 10.0 without thermals. I would love to play it with T-72B (1989), I think it would be a very interesting change, now that there’s more decompression!

Edited April 5, 2023 by SPANISH_AVENGER

[Rocknpool 3]

F-5A (China) either to 10.7 or the other F-5's stay at 11.0.
why would an inferior variant be at a higher BR than a superior variant?

[Jεcka 4,618]

Personally the expansion is great and precisely what WT needed, I'd like to give my opinion on what vehicles need BR/performance adjustements:

 

Leopard 2A4 (all):

Give DM33 APFSDS - with their lucklaster protection, they will be able to meet vehicles in uptiers that have heavy protection that DM23 isn't all that great against. Furthemore, M1IP and M1A1 are still 10.7 while both are using APFSDS with more than 500mm of penetration(!), severely outclassing the 2A4s in pretty much every aspect while being only 0.4 BRs higher after the changes. And this ignores the fact all 2A4s in this game have been rolling around with underperforming hull protection for years now.

 

Leopard 2PL:

Add DM53 APFSDS as DM43 is already underperforming, and with no fixes in sight or any new Leopard 2 additions to the German TT anytime soon - it makes sense to strengthen the line-up by improving the vehicle individually.

 

BMP-2M:

Long story short, 9.3 - > 10.0 or even 10.3

 

It has enough firepower to make some MBTs blush while also being reasonably mobile and with excellent gunner optics it makes spotting targets easy. It makes zero sense for this IFV to remain at its Battle Rating if Puma IFV will go up.

 

Puma IFV:

Should remain at its current BR. With no SPIKE-LR ATGMs in sight, it makes little sense to move this vehicle to a higher BR considering its weak firepower - optionally, fix protection, firepower and give it QOL updates like making MUSS and AHEAD work as they're supposed to.

 

2S6 Tunguska:

Should remain at 11.0

 

Despite SACLOS missile changes, it still is able to outrange pretty much every helicopter around that Battle Rating and is still vastly more versatile as a vehicle than SPAA's of similar BR (fx Rolands if it went down) due to inclusion of 30mm autocannons.

 

Leopard 1:

7.3 - > 7.7 

Seriously, why is it still 7.3 when AMX-30 is 7.7?

 

Marder 1A3:

Add MILAN 2 ATGMs. It already has only 4 ATGMs - it also used MILAN 2s in real life, no reason to withhold them from this vehicle.

 

M60A3(TTS):

Add M833 APFSDS - most other 9.0s are already boasting firepower and mobility superior to it, at least giving it M833 would help it out a bit in uptiers.

 

T-72B3:

11.3 - > 11.7 

It was supposed to sit at the same BR as the Leopard 2A5 and 2A6; yet it never did (as said BR change proposal was removed almost instantly from the BR changelog). It's potent enough to share the BR with other top tier tanks - and definitely good enough to share a BR with the Challenger 2 Black Night.

 

Edited April 5, 2023 by Holouu

[DrNukinstein 323]

Char FCM 2C 2.3>1.7 - It's slow, really slow, it's big, really big, the armor is weak at 2.3, and the gun is weak at 2.3, the only advantage for this vehicle is 12 crew, but that doesn't matter if your gunner and driver die to the first shot. Plus the 2C Bis is already at 1.7, so this would bring them both into alignment as weak armor landships

[Stephensan 1,367]

57 minutes ago, Ghostmaxi said:

All realistic mode.

Bf 110 C-6 3.0 -> 2.3

Reason: The better C-7 is 2.7 which is better because: Armored glass, can carry bombs and has 2x 20mm Mg FF/M and faster  while the C-6 cant have bombs has no 20mm and is fixed with the 30mm Mk 101. In comparison the Hs 129 B-2 which is at 2.7 has more armor, 2x 20mm Mg 151/20 and 2x Mg 17 (instead of 4x Mg 17) and a Mk 103 with 100 instead of 60 rounds and higher fire rate.

 

Do 217 J-2 2.3 -> 2.0 it is simply a J-1 (2.0) with the only difference beeing having an useless radar and changing the camo from black to white with black spots.

 

Do 217 N-1 2.7 -> 2.3 it is a Do 217 J with radar a little bit stronger (but also heavyer) engines (1430 hp to 1580 (150hp more)), changes the 20mm Mg FF/M to Mg 151/20 which are also heavyer (but fire the same rounds and) and has on paper a tiny little improvement in climp (5,9 to 6,8 (0,9 more) and such but because its also a good tat heavyer flyes even worse.

Same goes for N-2 2.7 -> 2.3 its even worse as it changes the (useless anyway) small bombload and the 2x only def 13mm Mg 131 for 4x 20mm Mg 151/20 in Schrägemusik position which really is only dead weight and also changes once again the camo from Black to White with black spots.

And move the Do 217 N-1 and N-2 in front of Ju 88 C-6

 

Ju 87 D-5 3.3 -> 2.3 It has worse bomb load than the D-3 (no 1000kg bomb, and less 500 kg loadouts (no 3x 500kg bomb loadout), when equipping with Mgs or more cannons it cant carry and bombs, while also the flightperformance doesnt change and the very aquivalent plane,
the Il 2 Mod. 1941 with 2x 20mm Shvak and 2x Shkas is at 2.3 (while also having a wider arrangement of explosives, such as Bombs and rockets) And even the mod 1942 sits at 3.0

 

The Me 410 B-6 R/3 5.0 -> 4.0 

Its no different from the other Me 410 (well its slower) but it cant take any bombs and a similar (perhaps even a bit better) plane the He 219 A-7 is at 4.3

 

A suggestion also (if moveing the Me 410 B-6 R/3 to 4.0) move it in front of Do 335 A-1 and the Do 335 A-0 after the A-1 to complet the Ground strike line and to fill the new middle gap take appart the 4 other Me 410s and put them one after the other.

 

The Sd.Kfz 251/21 from 3.3 -> 2.7 it is bugged with ammo choosing when taking more than 1 different kind (only outer barrles have ammo for example) has bad vertical traverse with 49° up and the aquivalents (M 16 and Btr152A) are also at 2.7 

The Bf 109 G-6 to 4.3, it is a little bit worse than the G-2/Trop in terms of Speed, turnspeed and Horsepower and has a smaller max height and feels more sluggish

Maus/E-100: reload time 23,6 sec --> 20,5 sec (IS-6)

With the Maus still being 7.7, it could really need a slight buff in firepower since unlike other heavy tanks like the IS-3, IS-4, M103 or Conqueror it really is a "heavy" tank without any tactical mobility (similarly to the T95).

 

Jagdtiger: reload time 23,6 sec --> 19,4 sec (T34, Sturer Emil)

The Jagdtiger has two dedicated loaders for its two-piece ammo, because of this the reload should be faster than the Maus/E-100 and significantly faster than IS-3 and IS-4 with their cramped turrets and only a single loader.

The Sturer Emil loads similar ammo into a nearly identical gun in 19,4 sec with just a single loader!

 

Tiger II 10,5cm: reload time 20 sec --> 16,2 sec (T29)

Two loaders for 105mm two-piece ammunition, same as on the T29 yet slower for some reason

 

Marder 1A1: add DM63

20mm HVAP is not even able to kill most light tanks from the front.

It already has the worst ground based ATGMs in the game and only four of them with relatively long reload and very limited launch angles.

It should at least have some firepower, the BMP-1 not only has far superiour missiles but also a gun capable of engaging every other tank frontally.

 

Marder 1A3: add MILAN 2

Same as above, MILAN is basically the worst ground based ATGM in game and it has quite a bit below average mobility as well.

The gun is also sub par so it should at least have the slightly improved missiles.

 

Also good to see the M4A3 105 going up, could perhaps even move to 3.3

A but sad about the 222, 234/1 and 140/1, but not really a problem cince i take them at 2.0 anyway.

234/2 a bit lost but anyway.

Bf-110-C-6, is perfectly where its at 30mm with 77mm of pen is completely perfect for 3.0 everything else is a mute cause, it lacks other calibers like 20mm and secondary's, for the VERY powerful 30mm cannons, its perfect for absolutely destroying planes and tanks.

 

The Me 410 B-6 R/3, Absolute delusional to think that THE CAS plane for germany for the TT needs to go down in BR, it is perfectly at its place.. (no really people need get the ammo for 30mm for 77mm of pen and watch heads pop on tanks, its perfect at 5.0)

 

Sd.Kfz 251/21, is perfect where it is at, 3x15mm with an APCR belt 1 out of 5 shells has 51mm of pen.. Its an AA not a tank front buster. any lower it will be able to completely pen fronts of most tanks

 

Tiger II 10,5cm, a fictional tank with literally impossible gun inside the turret... yeah i think the reload can stay the same.

 

Marder 1A, doesn't need DM 63 that's why you have the Marder 1a3, and 7.3 it has ATGM's to be able to punch through the front.. its a light cannon with a punch missile for 7.3..

 

Marder 1a3, it really does not need 1000m~ of pen at 7.7, if it gets the Milian 2, it would need go up towards 8.7~ BR, instead of 7.7..

 

 

the rest makes sense, but those are the ones that are the most questionable..