Challenger 2 TES and Composite Skirts

[FeroxTheFox 6]

Just a topic to talk about how the challenger 2 is incorrect in the game currently and the things it is missing...

 

-ERA with Composite

-Commander independent thermal sight

-CV12-9A Engine

-Barracuda

 

---ERA with Composite---

The challenger 2 in real life, is a double stack system... Composite skirts on the back with ERA layered on the top. The composite and the ERA in the game for some reason have the same attributes though being vastly different in both thickness and effect. why is it that, the composite skirts on the 2f are 30mm kinetic and 400mm chemical protection, then the TES with its ERA is the exact same. Clearly the ERA should have a higher protection, but it just does not... I do not understand why this decision was made, though it is confusing as it make the ERA essentially useless when compared to Contact-1 as it has essentially no kinetic protection and barely any chemical compared to the munitions used at the BR.

 

---Commander Independent Thermal Sight---

Watching a video of the challenger 2 at Tank fest left me confused, when the announcer spoke of the Challenger 2 having a "independent commander thermal sight" yet the thermal sight in the video was the exact same one as seen on the normal challenger 2, 2f and TES in the game. I'm hoping that, it will be looked into with a little more and found a post from the official british army website saying "C halleng er 2's thermal observation and gunnery displays a magnified image for the commander and gunner. " The commander has a gyro-stabilised fully panoramic sight with laser range finder and thermal imager" which leads me to believe that, the challenger 2's commander optic does in fact have thermal ability, but it is not used in game...

 

---CV12-9A---

The Perkins CV12-9a is an upgraded version of the older CV12-6a currently in the game... as it stands, all the challenger 2's ((minus the 2e)) are equip with the 6a engine, though this would be incorrect. The black night for example, was designed with the CV12-9a engine in mind, though in game it has the same 6a that all the other challenger 2's have... on top of this, all in service challenger 2's have been upgraded to the 8a or 9a which would provide 1500hp, on par with the 2e from my knowledge to reach the same capability of other nato MBT's in the way of speed making it able to reach up to 50mph.

 

---Barracuda---

the camo netting in the game seems to be similar to the barracuda armour used by the British army, this was designed specifically to help reduce the heat inside the vehicle due to the tanks poor air conditioning inside it while in Iraq. crews were suffering from the heat, and the barracuda netting was developed to keep the heat out of the vehicle, which had a side effect of making it harder to see through thermal signatures due to the rapid cooling of the vehicle, though it does not change the thermal signature of the challenger 2 in game.

 

---Dozer Blade---

The challenger 2 was also equip with a dozer blade, used in Estonia as well as being used for the Street Fighter variant as seen in the picture below. 

[davidj123456 0]

Good spot

[Razielkaine 4,876]

Wish ypu luck. The side skirts were reported before the tank even went live. Somehow the armour is twice at thick yet somehow the same protection, makes total sense.

[richthofen122 1,455]

11 minutes ago, Razielkaine said:

Wish ypu luck. The side skirts were reported before the tank even went live. Somehow the armour is twice at thick yet somehow the same protection, makes total sense.

 

Guess someone needs to leak sum sekrit documentz...

[Vyprex 729]

Oh before i saw that post I remember the f-16 documents leaked

[TwitchyNGL 595]

There is zero evidence the in service CR2s are ALL using 1500HP engines, in fact it's more likely none of them are. HAAIP is actually sort of seperate to the CR3 upgrades and is moving independently but not neccerily faster. 

[Godvana 533]

23 hours ago, TwitchyNGL said:

There is zero evidence the in service CR2s are ALL using 1500HP engines, in fact it's more likely none of them are. HAAIP is actually sort of seperate to the CR3 upgrades and is moving independently but not neccerily faster. 

 

I concur with this. All evidence that I have seen suggests that the uprated Challenger engine is from the HAAIP program which itself is part of the Challenger 3 program. No other Challengers have or will use this engine.

[Shirazz 192]

43 minutes ago, Godvana said:

 

I concur with this. All evidence that I have seen suggests that the uprated Challenger engine is from the HAAIP program which itself is part of the Challenger 3 program. No other Challengers have or will use this engine.

 

On 10/05/2023 at 10:00, TwitchyNGL said:

There is zero evidence the in service CR2s are ALL using 1500HP engines, in fact it's more likely none of them are. HAAIP is actually sort of seperate to the CR3 upgrades and is moving independently but not neccerily faster. 

 

Janes disagrees: https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/iav-2022-challenger-3-upgrade-under-way

 

It does seem like HAAIP will be completed on C2 before new turrets/ armour packs are installed.

 

I'm sure I remember the QRH saying much the same thing.

[Godvana 533]

2 hours ago, Shirazz said:

 

 

Janes disagrees: https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/iav-2022-challenger-3-upgrade-under-way

 

It does seem like HAAIP will be completed on C2 before new turrets/ armour packs are installed.

 

I'm sure I remember the QRH saying much the same thing.

 

HAAIP is a preparatory upgrade for Challenger 3. The tanks are entirely stripped down and the engine, suspension, and transmission are all being updated then sent off to be upgraded to CR3 standard. 79 tanks are not undergoing this procedure, some of these tanks were sent to Ukraine and the rest may follow at some point. 

[TwitchyNGL 595]

3 hours ago, Shirazz said:

I'm sure I remember the QRH saying much the same thing.

As I said, HAAIP is seperate to the CR3 upgrades and is moving independently but not neccerily faster. 

QRH said 1500 with HAAIP, they also said when asked when HAAIP will enter service:

[Shirazz 192]

23 minutes ago, TwitchyNGL said:

As I said, HAAIP is seperate to the CR3 upgrades and is moving independently but not neccerily faster. 

QRH said 1500 with HAAIP, they also said when asked when HAAIP will enter service:

 

There seems to be conflicting information, however if there are even a small batch of C2s running around with HAAIP then giving one of the later C2 models in game would not be unprecedented. After all, T-80B got AGAVA and that was a very small run.

[Shirazz 192]

Seems unclear but if Janes is correct there are currently Challenger 2s running around with CV12-9A and the rest.

 

Seems like there is conflicting information about this, but even if HAAIP upgraded C2 is currently fielded in small numbers, that has still been enough for other vehicles in war thunder e.g. the AGAVA on the Russian T-80B

[MajorFooFoo 226]

 

On 09/05/2023 at 19:50, FeroxTheFox said:

---Dozer Blade---

The challenger 2 was also equip with a dozer blade, used in Estonia as well as being used for the Street Fighter variant as seen in the picture below. 

Well the base CR2 just got it's dozer blade on the dev server!...and it offers better protection at points than the 2F/TES composite block lmao. 

[MA50CHI5T_TEAB00 101]

Was looking into barracuda and found a video of a competing multi-spectral camo system on a defender, gives a good idea of what barracuda should look like under thermals.

 

Edited June 3, 2023 by MA50CHI5T_TEAB00

[VatnikWrangler22 325]

On 09/05/2023 at 19:50, FeroxTheFox said:

 

---Commander Independent Thermal Sight---

Watching a video of the challenger 2 at Tank fest left me confused, when the announcer spoke of the Challenger 2 having a "independent commander thermal sight" yet the thermal sight in the video was the exact same one as seen on the normal challenger 2, 2f and TES in the game. I'm hoping that, it will be looked into with a little more and found a post from the official british army website saying "C halleng er 2's thermal observation and gunnery displays a magnified image for the commander and gunner. " The commander has a gyro-stabilised fully panoramic sight with laser range finder and thermal imager" which leads me to believe that, the challenger 2's commander optic does in fact have thermal ability, but it is not used in game...

 

 

 

 

I believe the commanders thermals on the Challenger 2 refers to those on the CROWS System.

 

As you can see (and use) ingame on the TES and spaded 2F, the CROWS system ontop of the tank which is joint controlled by the loader and commander has a sight mounted to it (to the guns right).

 

This sight is usually used by the loader to aim the CROWS machine gun, however the commander can also control it and use it as a CITV to locate targets.

 

You can use this sight ingame if you use the TES/2F and select the secondary machinegun (CROWS) as your weapon and simply aim down the sight, it has what appears to be generation 2 thermals and a laser range finder.

 

[TD_SEB 11]

On 01/06/2023 at 20:35, MajorFooFoo said:

 

Well the base CR2 just got it's dozer blade on the dev server!...and it offers better protection at points than the 2F/TES composite block lmao. 

Annoyingly they just removed it

 

It did look really good while it lasted tho, hope it comes back soon