Night / Poor weather Battles

[Morvran_ 661]

As it currently stands, I dont think i've ever done a night battle in ARB, Air Sim or Naval and poor weather is a very rare occurance. All which is a missed oppotunity for diversity. In GRB night battles are more common, but are totally ruined by the respawning flares that mean NVGs are annoying to use and essentially pointless, So we could really do better implementation of weather and time within the game, and prehaps actually simulated weather in aircraft would be cool. 

[Real K Soze@live 407]

11 hours ago, Morvran_ said:

As it currently stands, I dont think i've ever done a night battle in ARB, Air Sim or Naval and poor weather is a very rare occurance. All which is a missed oppotunity for diversity. ....So we could really do better implementation of weather and time within the game, and prehaps actually simulated weather in aircraft would be cool. 

 

Despite i like your striving for "diversity" at least in the meaning of weather conditions: You missed nothing - at least in prop Air RB i am extremely happy that these few night matches and this total common endless clouds completely vanished. For a radar equipped jet it makes no difference, but within prop game play it was an absolute pain for 2 reasons:

 

A) It widened the already existing experience gap between pilots even more. An experienced pilot used teammates as spotter, hiding in the darkness / clouds and waited for anybody to turn with his mate and picking up easy 3rd party kills coming out of nowhere. In order to counter this you had to stay high and very fast and you needed to learn to listen and identifying engine sounds. Sometimes you had to put off your engine and glide out if you heard somebody near you. I mean it is the same like today with heavy clouds and low/ nuclear sun when you see tracers out of nowhere as the spotting simply does not work. An absolute pain imho.

 

B) Pilots able to modify their graphic settings had (and still have today) the opportunity to alter their settings (including brightness of monitor/TV) and gained massive advantages vs players (technically unable or just too lazy) regarding dot spotting. Even before the current contrails you had propwash trails easy to spot and follow.

 

I just came out of a low sun match - a pain when the enemy team has much more experienced players doing everything right - flying very fast around 2-4.000 meters, luring your rookies away and baiting them to invisible (markers appeared 2 km horizontally and 1 km vertically -- not earlier) enemies. If you want to see a night battle in Air RB - go to yt and search for DEFYN's vid about night battles in a Ta 152...

 

Have a good one!

 

[Bruce_R1 2,118]

Agreed with OP. At least in theory.

The lack of fog and rain and low-light conditions in naval, as OP mentions, is pretty much a net loss. The sighting vehicle issues are much less important, you just lose out on the atmospherics for no real reason.

In the air modes, I don't think we should be afraid of change if it just increases the skill requirements. This is a pretty easy game, and rewarding skill due to added realism should generally be a good thing. I agree if it offers spotting advantage to people with specific graphics presets that may limit how far you can go sometimes (at least in Air RB; that's not really an Air AB issue), but I think we've gone too far in the other direction lately with clear skies all the time. I really see this as much more a ground issue than an air or naval issue, tbh, and the other modes have suffered due to the complaints of ground players in this regard.

[SKurj 234]

for that guy that logs in for his one match per day, he may find himself in a night battle in an unsuitable vehicle and the first thing he will do afterwards is vent on a forum somewhere...

 

as much as it would be cool, the complaints will outnumber the praise by a big margin.  it's been seen time and again...

[Bruce_R1 2,118]

47 minutes ago, SKurj said:

for that guy that logs in for his one match per day, he may find himself in a night battle in an unsuitable vehicle and the first thing he will do afterwards is vent on a forum somewhere...

 

as much as it would be cool, the complaints will outnumber the praise by a big margin.  it's been seen time and again...

Still seems silly to have the same weather and lighting model for all game modes, as they seem to do. Literally no one would complain in naval. Dusk battles when they still had them in naval were gorgeous.

[esapekkis 2,659]

I do not know about other modes but night / poor weather battles are certainly something I do not want to see in Air Sim. The currently rather common dusk time battles there are already infuriating enough.

Edited May 16, 2023 by esapekkis

[Morvran_ 661]

19 hours ago, Bruce_R1 said:

Agreed with OP. At least in theory.

The lack of fog and rain and low-light conditions in naval, as OP mentions, is pretty much a net loss. The sighting vehicle issues are much less important, you just lose out on the atmospherics for no real reason.

In the air modes, I don't think we should be afraid of change if it just increases the skill requirements. This is a pretty easy game, and rewarding skill due to added realism should generally be a good thing. I agree if it offers spotting advantage to people with specific graphics presets that may limit how far you can go sometimes (at least in Air RB; that's not really an Air AB issue), but I think we've gone too far in the other direction lately with clear skies all the time. I really see this as much more a ground issue than an air or naval issue, tbh, and the other modes have suffered due to the complaints of ground players in this regard.

Yep, Also in higher tier of air, we have NVGs for some strange reason. Would be nice to have a reason for them

[技术垃圾导致的 2]

I think it's fun to have night battles at the top tier.

Everyone almost has radar to search and attack in the dark.

The only problem is that those planes with simple radar are painful(such as mig 21bis etc.)

[GhostSoph@psn 2,213]

On 15/05/2023 at 20:49, Bruce_R1 said:

Literally no one would complain in naval.

What? You got to be joking...ALWAYS someone will complain...either it is too dark, or the darkness is darker on their side, or the red is the wrong type of red...etc...

In this specific issue, there are regular complaints of players that dont want low visibility battles...at least in GROUND battle it is common...

 

I actually like night battles since they added flares...and rain or fog are a fun alternative...but several players will not like to have to adapt and play differently...

[你的死兆星在天上闪耀 51]

On 14/05/2023 at 04:24, Morvran_ said:

As it currently stands, I dont think i've ever done a night battle in ARB, Air Sim or Naval and poor weather is a very rare occurance. All which is a missed oppotunity for diversity. In GRB night battles are more common, but are totally ruined by the respawning flares that mean NVGs are annoying to use and essentially pointless, So we could really do better implementation of weather and time within the game, and prehaps actually simulated weather in aircraft would be cool. 

Oh dude, you are really lucky, you don't know the feeling that there is a FW190D suddenly appear behind you in a night ARB.

[Bruce_R1 2,118]

2 hours ago, GhostSoph@psn said:

What? You got to be joking...ALWAYS someone will complain...either it is too dark, or the darkness is darker on their side, or the red is the wrong type of red...etc...

In this specific issue, there are regular complaints of players that dont want low visibility battles...at least in GROUND battle it is common...

 

I actually like night battles since they added flares...and rain or fog are a fun alternative...but several players will not like to have to adapt and play differently...

As I said, ground and naval are different. Low light presents visual acquisition problems in ground RB that are not present in other modes. Most of the complaints about low light come from ground RB players.

 

The difficulty is that apparently they only have one on/off setting for low-light battles in all modes, because naval players nearly universally liked twilight battles which were often cool and atmospheric.

[Morvran_ 661]

3 hours ago, 你的死兆星在天上闪耀 said:

Oh dude, you are really lucky, you don't know the feeling that there is a FW190D suddenly appear behind you in a night ARB.

With how buggy the spotting system is. I still find FW190s appearing magically behind me even on the brightest day matches. But I was thinking more Sim battles at BR11 where most jets have NVGs and literally 0 reason to use them. Gameplay mechanics, such as bombing, day/weather or even map design is consistant from Br1 to Br12, despite the fact it really shouldnt be. Adding night battles at the top BR ranges would add a really nice dynamic and a reason not sit on fully reheat the entire game. 

Edited May 18, 2023 by Morvran_

[Real K Soze@live 407]

 

On 15/05/2023 at 21:49, Bruce_R1 said:

Dusk battles when they still had them in naval were gorgeous.

 

As i play solely Air RB (and as you assume that weather is basically the same as in Ground or Naval) i would say that there are a lot matches without your clear weather conditions mentioned earlier. 

 

Based on my experience the appearance of "bad" weather strongly depends on your selected servers and the daytime you play. It is not unusual to have 3 or 4 matches in a row with heavy clouds and low sun simultaneously. I actually had a lot of fights on very rare pacific map or Norway too, combined with this weather and they were great, but mainly due to small lobbies (8 vs 8 max).

 

Don't get me wrong - the visual effects are sometimes really breathtaking, heavy clouds, cloud formations high than you can climb, 3-7/10 cloud cover on different altitudes on different parts of the maps - and this extremely often combined with a low (dusk/dawn) sun.  

 

But - as i prefer non-op prop planes (in order to have a challenge) this weather severely hampers my tactic to create 1 vs 1s. In addition

it decreases my situational awareness and my flight performance including my turnrate (i use joystick only) due to fps loss massively - the weather is nice to view, but it kills my fps on xbox one.

Sometimes closing the game and/or using another Nation/BR helps to get back to "normal" weather as 16 vs 16 bears always the risk to get caught off guard, and there is always a P-47/109/190 high up....

 

14 minutes ago, Morvran_ said:

I still find FW190s appearing magically behind me even on the brightest day matches.

 

Then you are meeting good players.

I saw just a handful of players (since the introduction of contrails) able to sneak up to enemies with putting engine off to avoid contrails and sound (u hear engine sounds 3.5 km) and using stealth belts. I use this tactic mainly against the last player alive, the challenge is that vertical spotting works with an aced plane and level 75 crew 6 km upwards (with clouds 1-2 km). So you have to glide in higher to avoid contrail and you need a 90 degree dive to stay in the blind spot directly above the player. I recommend this tactic only if you have an airbrake or you are able to use proppitch with MEC to slow you down...

 

[Morvran_ 661]

5 hours ago, GhostSoph@psn said:

I actually like night battles since they added flares...and rain or fog are a fun alternative...but several players will not like to have to adapt and play differently...

I just feel that the flares defeat the point of the night battles entirely, and they are too bright to use NVGs but too dark to not use them sometimes, and with how they pulse its just annoying. The best solution though is just to make them client side and have them be toggleable. Dont want them, then dont have them. Everyone would then be happy

[SKurj 234]

the other issue with this sort o things is that people then resort to doing everything they can in their client to reduce the effects of darkness for example by messing with gamma brightness etc...  so in the end not everyone is fighting in the spirit of the match as it were...

[GhostSoph@psn 2,213]

On 18/05/2023 at 12:42, Bruce_R1 said:

naval players nearly universally liked

Guy...i am guessing you are not usually in forums, right? You can see below your post that the overall "feedback" is not so universal as you mention...if anything it is "universally" contrary

 

I give you that we have no evident NAVAL player feedback...but from players that play planes and tanks...apparently. And i repeat...i agree with you...i prefer different game experiences, even if balance and my personal preferences are not in line with changes...HOWEVER, my experience is that players will ALWAYS complain...human nature.

(As a different example...some updates back, game added the feature where dead tanks remain in the map...which most players now like...but at the time there was a big number of players complaining...and i am pretty sure some still hate it for some reason)

 

Edited May 19, 2023 by GhostSoph@psn

[Bruce_R1 2,118]

2 minutes ago, GhostSoph@psn said:

Guy...i am guessing you are not usually in forums, right? You can see below your post that the overall "feedback" is not so universal as you mention...if anything it is "universally" contrary

 

I give you that we have no evident NAVAL player feedback...but from players that play planes and tanks...apparently. And i repeat...i agree with you...i prefer different game experiences, even if balance and my personal preferences are not in line with changes...HOWEVER, my experience is that players will ALWAYS complain...human nature.

(As a different example...some updates back, game added the feature where dead tanks remain in the map...which most players now like...but at the time there was a big number of players complaining...and i am pretty sure some still hate it for some reason)

 

Reading comprehension is hard. So is counting a number of posts or rep score by someone's name, apparently. Well, hard for you.

Give me a shout again when you post something interesting enough to 'win the day' on these forums. Bound to happen sooner or later.

[GhostSoph@psn 2,213]

16 minutes ago, Bruce_R1 said:

Reading comprehension is hard. So is counting a number of posts or rep score by someone's name, apparently. Well, hard for you.

Give me a shout again when you post something interesting enough to 'win the day' on these forums. Bound to happen sooner or later.

Disclaimer...NOTHING PARTICULARLY INTERESTING below.

 

Not sure why the aggressiveness...i was just trying to point out that just because something is obviously positive for you, it does not mean there won't be someone else that disagrees with you, particularly in web forums related to gaming. And "negative" feedback apparently happens a lot more...

MY POINT is that if Gaijin actually makes it as you want it (increase night battles in naval)...i would bet lots of players would come to the forum with some complaint...so they tend to be wary of such requests.

 

In case you missed it...i also like night battles, so would support any request to make them more frequent, including in naval...so feel free to suggest it in the suggestions section:

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/forum/572-moderated-suggestions/