economy May 2023 Economic Changes Summary and Findings (With Excel Sheet!)

[Rafala 100]

Even naval SL gain was nerfed. What reason to play the mode anymore...

[Camplaysgames 42]

I have to agree, sadly. I'm often posting praising the game and not one to moan often but it is clear to see that the state of the economy is vastly different to how it used to be; It does feel like Gaijin is trending towards using a harder and less rewarding grind increasingly so to encourage players to spend money.

 

I understand this as a business model, however the thing that gets me is that Gaijin could increase the amount of revenue they take in by actually giving players more research points, especially premium players 

 

As it currently stands you realistically need to have a premium account, a premium vehicle and boosters to make a decent impact on research and also maintain an increase in Silver lions. A premium account should be enough, with a premium vehicle being a bonus for anyone that wants things quick.

 

The fact that these are almost a *requirement* to stay profitable nowadays does show a sad trend towards almost an 'anti-player' stance, combined with other things that leave a bad taste in the mouth like the attrocious drop rates for the demolition crates.

 

I understand that Gaijin has shareholders and needs to stay profitable; we are *owed* nothing, however they could improve both the overall perception of the game and their figures by allowing players to research and play more by making that grind a little easier.

 

Read Aesop's fable about the find and the sun; giving people a little more will in turn encourage them to spend more of their own volition, not because they're forced to 

[CZSQ 10]

17 hours ago, 关注莉莉娅Channel谢谢喵w said:

To all the players of War Thunder:

I believe everyone has noticed the recent changes in the in-game economy, whether it's for naval, ground, air battles, AB, RB, or SB. Gaijin is continuously pushing the boundaries and testing the limits of its players. If you are familiar with the game "Escape from Tarkov," you probably know the consequences when game developers constantly provoke their player base. As players of this game, we contribute to its activity, and in theory, Gaijin should appreciate each and every one of us who continues to support and encourage this game. However, Gaijin keeps pushing the boundaries and exploiting each and every one of us. This recent economic change is not just a simple adjustment; Gaijin is gradually making it clear that if you don't pay for this game, you don't deserve to play it.

I implore every player here to bravely stand up and resist this behavior. Gaijin has now infringed upon our rights as players, and we cannot, and should not, let Gaijin continue to exploit us in the future. It is time for us players to unite and stand together. We should be a collective, a class, opposing Gaijin's exploitation and oppression towards us. We are here to enjoy this game, to find joy in it, and we should not be working for Gaijin.

I hope that each player will save and spread this message. This post will undoubtedly be deleted, but we should copy it, share it, on any platform, anywhere that allows us to make our voices heard. Fellow warriors, let's fight for our future. Stay strong!

If you are willing, you can sign below. We stand as one!

—From a player on Earth, Liliya

 

Definitely agree with you.

[Real K Soze@live 407]

1 hour ago, gozer said:

5.0 variants (all tech tree vehicles):

USA - P-47D-28 - 2028SL stock repair, 2676SL spaded

CHINA - P-47D-30 - 1176SL stock repair, 1548SL spaded

ITA - P-47D-30 - 7342SL stock repair, 9689SL spaded

 

some difference in repair cost would be understandable, but come on ... what exactly can explain 6x higher repair cost on identical planes?

 

Thank you very much, this is exactly confirming my earlier point. 

 

Every attempt to balance vehicles with repair cost is simply wrong. It just shows that the BR setting system is not effective.

 

Imho balancing solely with multipliers and BRs is the only comprehensible way.

The current policy of gaijin is more or less a sign of underestimating the brain power of players.

 

Edit: I forgot to mention that the US D-28 has somehow a worse flight model, you might realize this if you use joystick and SFC in Air RB, so they are similar to D-30s but technically not the same planes - besides the extremely useful airbrake of the D-30s...

 

 

Edited May 17, 2023 by Uncle J Wick@live

[HermitCrack 26]

10 hours ago, Morvran_ said:

Yeah, some aircraft like the Buc S2 are essentially unplayable at the moment, because its repair cost is greater than what you can reasonably earn, its even worse in sim, with a 30k+ spawn cost but really a max of maybe 15-20k earnable per sortie, meaning you have to have 2x perfect sorties in the aircraft just to break even. Many aircraft, especially bombers all have the same problem

Same with one of the most iconic tanks in the world, the Maus. As you might know, the current BP has a task in which you must get "Adamant" 30 times. Now, I imagined that such a beast like the Maus would be perfect for this task, but it's absurd repair costs (between 12K in RB, 15.5K in AB) means you can basically never make money on it. And it's very simple as to why. Even with a premium account, you never get more than 3K SL from a kill, while potentially facing T-55s, T-62s, helicopters with AGMs. This would be the case if I played the T-10M/A, or any American heavy, or even more ridiculous with a French tank. 

And this applies to all heavies. Heavy tanks have insanely high repair costs, while being pretty much weaker than other classes. And gaijin simply does not care. Remember, they removed getting silver lions from tanking hits in a vehicle a while ago. 
Gaijin needs to understand that making a vehicle unplayable is unacceptable, and the solution for them seemingly is to remove it from the game. The economy changes limit the gameplay more and more. Heavies aren't viable, bombers aren't viable, attackers are a death sentence. They want everyone to dogfight in premium fighter jets and brawl in light tanks. And that's not okay.

Some might say that "hey, the Maus was removed for a reason, it's impossible to balance!". If so, then why does Gaijin keep bringing it back every single year to research? 

[jd_hog77 332]

1 hour ago, Uncle J Wick@live said:

 

Thank you very much, this is exactly confirming my earlier point. 

 

Every attempt to balance vehicles with repair cost is simply wrong. It just shows that the BR setting system is not effective.

 

Imho balancing solely with multipliers and BRs is the only comprehensible way.

The current policy of gaijin is more or less a sign of underestimating the brain power of players.

 

Edit: I forgot to mention that the US D-28 has somehow a worse flight model, you might realize this if you use joystick and SFC in Air RB, so they are similar to D-30s but technically not the same planes - besides the extremely useful airbrake of the D-30s...

 

 

They don’t balance vehicles by repair costs. Repair costs balance SL income of vehicles not it’s performance. Also the Italian P-47 is rank IV not rank III like the other P-47’s. 

Edited May 17, 2023 by jd_hog77

[richthofen122 1,455]

1 hour ago, HermitCrack said:

Gaijin needs to understand that making a vehicle unplayable is unacceptable, and the solution for them seemingly is to remove it from the game. The economy changes limit the gameplay more and more.

 

Same with the 3 other german tanks removed alongside the Maus. I cannot speak from personal experience sadly, but all 3 of them also have absurd Repair Cost of 12-15k SL.

 

Instead of working on a solution, Gaijin just removed the 3 and made them Taboo for future Players because of "historical accurracy".

 

I know about the controversy surrounding the Panther II, Flakpanzer 341 and Tiger 10.5cm, just wanted to point out the economical unfairness.

 

Edited May 17, 2023 by richthofen122

[SKurj 234]

love to know the math behind blag getting nerfed earnings but not Moffet or Frank Knox...

[VatnikCopeisReal 59]

1 hour ago, HermitCrack said:

Same with one of the most iconic tanks in the world, the Maus. As you might know, the current BP has a task in which you must get "Adamant" 30 times. Now, I imagined that such a beast like the Maus would be perfect for this task, but it's absurd repair costs (between 12K in RB, 15.5K in AB) means you can basically never make money on it. And it's very simple as to why. Even with a premium account, you never get more than 3K SL from a kill, while potentially facing T-55s, T-62s, helicopters with AGMs. This would be the case if I played the T-10M/A, or any American heavy, or even more ridiculous with a French tank. 

And this applies to all heavies. Heavy tanks have insanely high repair costs, while being pretty much weaker than other classes. And gaijin simply does not care. Remember, they removed getting silver lions from tanking hits in a vehicle a while ago. 
Gaijin needs to understand that making a vehicle unplayable is unacceptable, and the solution for them seemingly is to remove it from the game. The economy changes limit the gameplay more and more. Heavies aren't viable, bombers aren't viable, attackers are a death sentence. They want everyone to dogfight in premium fighter jets and brawl in light tanks. And that's not okay.

Some might say that "hey, the Maus was removed for a reason, it's impossible to balance!". If so, then why does Gaijin keep bringing it back every single year to research? 

This also promotes playing one vehicle per match as the cost of multiple vehicles is unsustainable, more so for free players.

[richthofen122 1,455]

1 minute ago, IHuntOrkz said:

This also promotes playing one vehicle per match as the cost of multiple vehicles is unsustainable, more so for free players.

 

Or to use premium only lineups, Premium Vehicles usually have a slightly lower Repair Cost. 

 

For example:

 

T-72 Moderna: ~7k SL repair cost

T-72 TURMS (prem): ~5.6k SL repair cost

 

This also results in an annoying power disadvantage between TT and Premium Vehicles in every match. Those swedish CV critters for example are just stomping imho.

[cortbowan@psn 225]

So with the new changes a Top Tier Tank in the Swedish lineup is ~8600 SL repair cost. 

I'm neither making that amount of SL by capping a point all by myself not for killing an enemy tank or two. 

 

So what happens now is that people will spawn their Premium vehicle, go for the spawn, will eventually get a kill and when they are killed they hop into the next game. 

 

Or in other words, interesting/challenging rounds now ceased to exist. 

 

 

 

[gozer 4,134]

2 hours ago, jd_hog77 said:

They don’t balance vehicles by repair costs. Repair costs balance SL income of vehicles not it’s performance.

 

well, then the changes are even dumber.

 

Let's look at 11.7 tanks as example (arcade): Ariete AMV has stock repair cost 6336SL, stock T-80BMV 4173SL. Ariete has also much lower SL reward multiplier, 1.1 instead of 1.3 T-80BVM has. So Gaijin is saying that T-80BVM is struggling so very very much that it needs to have not only 30% lower repair cost but also 20% higher SL reward multiplier to have comparable income with Ariete AMV? 

 

Or look at Sweden ... Strv 122B PLSS & Leopard 2A6, both only have 0.8 SL reward multiplier, stock repairs of 5700SL & 6284SL ... so again, when compared to much cheaper T-80VMB repair cost coupled with RIDICULOUSLY higher reward multiplier the SL income balancing makes very little sense.

 

Can anyone really take the economy updates seriously? If the differences are this big then the numbers need to be explained a lot better than "much statistics".

Edited May 17, 2023 by gozer

[Real K Soze@live 407]

1 hour ago, jd_hog77 said:

They don’t balance vehicles by repair costs. Repair costs balance SL income of vehicles not it’s performance. Also the Italian P-47 is rank IV not rank III like the other P-47’s. 

 

Sry dude and no offense - i think you missed some points here. You simply have to distinguish between direct and indirect balancing. 

 

Of course they balance vehicles by repair cost - by increasing these cost so high that they become simply not attractive to play as you need simply more kills in the more expensive version in case you get killed than in the lower repair cost version. 

 

Your second argument is even more strange - why in the hell should have the exact same plane different ranks in different nations?

The only reason is to get the rank research penalty scheme for the lower version to become more effective... 

 

A classic example for balancing with repair cost from the past were the B-29s - if they survived they earned 100k SL a match, if they got killed they lost 50k as the repair cost were that high. I think BoTime gaming made a vid on YouTube "B-29 experience" about this some years ago. They only difference compared to today is that the "flattened" the income and repair cost whilst reducing the net profit and uptiered the B-29 so that they got easy killed by any AAM. Y

 

 

[cortbowan@psn 225]

9 minutes ago, Uncle J Wick@live said:

Of course they balance vehicles by repair cost - by increasing these cost so high that they become simply not attractive to play as you need simply more kills in the more expensive version in case you get killed than in the lower repair cost version. 

^This! 

 

A fine example for that is the U-SH 405 in the swedish TT.

Not sure what the repair costs are now, but they were in the 8000+ SL range before the update..for a wheeled vehicle with no armor to speak of. 

 

If you play like a pro, then I'm sure you can make a profit on it, but I'm no Pro, I'm not a spawncamping CC and I don't sit the whole time on some camping spots in the maps. 

This means that in the best case I get a positive K/D and still make a loss due to the high repair costs. 

So eventually you don't spawn the U-SH anymore, or any missile SPAA but leave the battle and move on.

[Real K Soze@live 407]

16 minutes ago, cortbowan@psn said:

This means that in the best case I get a positive K/D and still make a loss due to the high repair costs. 

 

Thank you too. That's why i am highly against this repair cost madness.

 

I have a certain level of understanding regarding gaijins' intentions to earn money. But imho it is more than questionable if they advertise this as a f2p game if the gameplay (i am not talking about grind) is designed to gain losses. If we consider that we are talking about a PG 12+ game here, i have serious doubts that younger players can realize and actually understand that with such not sustainable designs it is not a f2p game. 

 

So without a general change of this "unsustainable" game play i see actually no future for wt - despite i love playing it.

 

[里奥哟西 5]

21 hours ago, 关注莉莉娅Channel谢谢喵w said:

To all the players of War Thunder:

I believe everyone has noticed the recent changes in the in-game economy, whether it's for naval, ground, air battles, AB, RB, or SB. Gaijin is continuously pushing the boundaries and testing the limits of its players. If you are familiar with the game "Escape from Tarkov," you probably know the consequences when game developers constantly provoke their player base. As players of this game, we contribute to its activity, and in theory, Gaijin should appreciate each and every one of us who continues to support and encourage this game. However, Gaijin keeps pushing the boundaries and exploiting each and every one of us. This recent economic change is not just a simple adjustment; Gaijin is gradually making it clear that if you don't pay for this game, you don't deserve to play it.

I implore every player here to bravely stand up and resist this behavior. Gaijin has now infringed upon our rights as players, and we cannot, and should not, let Gaijin continue to exploit us in the future. It is time for us players to unite and stand together. We should be a collective, a class, opposing Gaijin's exploitation and oppression towards us. We are here to enjoy this game, to find joy in it, and we should not be working for Gaijin.

I hope that each player will save and spread this message. This post will undoubtedly be deleted, but we should copy it, share it, on any platform, anywhere that allows us to make our voices heard. Fellow warriors, let's fight for our future. Stay strong!

If you are willing, you can sign below. We stand as one!

—From a player on Earth, Liliya

Totally agree with you bro

[cortbowan@psn 225]

QN506 has now repair cost of 7338 SL!

 

@Stona

Have the Masterminds behind the economy changes given any thought to how “normal” players will obtain new vehicles after these economy changes?

 

When you make barely 5-6k SL per round (on a good round) and use that to balance out the rounds where you get bombed or spawn camped, then there is nothing left to buy new vehicles.

 

All I have seen so far are ridiculous changes upwards, especially on light vehicles and tanks. 

 

Of course, the BMP-2M gets away with 5300 SL repair cost, while the IKV 91 now sits at 6974 SL or the Wiesel 1A2 now at 8957 SL?!

 

How many enemy fighters am I supposed to kill with the JA37D before I break even, let alone be in a position to buy a new modification? 

 

I don’t mind if the decision makers don’t play the game or have unlimited amounts of GE and SLs so they don’t have to worry about these things, but the rest of the playerbase doesn’t have that luxury.

 

I really enjoy the game, I usually don’t mind the grind and I don’t mind spending money on a premium account and premium vehicles, but I do mind when you introduce economy changes that makes progressing as average player simply impossible, unless you pay for each and every vehicle. 

And with taking them out of folders it just got worse.

 

I understand that this is not your personal decision, but maybe its worthwhile to direct the decision makers to this part of the forum.

[kpz59 1]

give our sliver lion income back

[nOoBiE 26]

I like to read these discussion before bedtime, Makes me sleepy fast.

They stay open for years and become hundreds of pages long without achieving anything because 98% players would do everything but that simple one thing, That would make FOR-PROFIT COMPANY listen.


 

[Major_Shaker 2,633]

Wasnt the point of repair changes last year to lower repair costs and avoid getting again to those high numbers of repair costs? I feel like we came full circle and are back and all repair costs are higher than they were before. 

[Ikuno__Dictus 0]

On 17/05/2023 at 00:56, 关注莉莉娅Channel谢谢喵w said:

To all the players of War Thunder:

I believe everyone has noticed the recent changes in the in-game economy, whether it's for naval, ground, air battles, AB, RB, or SB. Gaijin is continuously pushing the boundaries and testing the limits of its players. If you are familiar with the game "Escape from Tarkov," you probably know the consequences when game developers constantly provoke their player base. As players of this game, we contribute to its activity, and in theory, Gaijin should appreciate each and every one of us who continues to support and encourage this game. However, Gaijin keeps pushing the boundaries and exploiting each and every one of us. This recent economic change is not just a simple adjustment; Gaijin is gradually making it clear that if you don't pay for this game, you don't deserve to play it.

I implore every player here to bravely stand up and resist this behavior. Gaijin has now infringed upon our rights as players, and we cannot, and should not, let Gaijin continue to exploit us in the future. It is time for us players to unite and stand together. We should be a collective, a class, opposing Gaijin's exploitation and oppression towards us. We are here to enjoy this game, to find joy in it, and we should not be working for Gaijin.

I hope that each player will save and spread this message. This post will undoubtedly be deleted, but we should copy it, share it, on any platform, anywhere that allows us to make our voices heard. Fellow warriors, let's fight for our future. Stay strong!

If you are willing, you can sign below. We stand as one!

—From a player on Earth, Liliya

Pro！
We enjoyed the game but now it is way more annoying because of the unreasonable economy.
Stop doing this stupid thing,plz !

[GloBlue 94]

no but seriously gaijin, do you think players have an unlimited budget? I was playing for my pleasure, and I didn't mind paying from time to time, but between buying food and playing the choice is quickly made, frankly you should be ashamed of taking players hostage like that, don't forget not that there are many other games...

[druidh58 656]

The irony of all of this is that Gaijin are promoting the game with top tier vehicles. How many folk are attracted by that, join in, then realise that it'll take them years to acquire them and sunsequently go on to decide just to drop out again?

[Thodin 6,784]

Just from an hour ago: Eleven kills, several assists and caps. Exept for the bomber I only used premium units + prem account. Not even 100k SL. A year ago something like that would have been something like 140.000 SL. Premiums really got alot nerfs for their SL modifiers....

 

Edited May 17, 2023 by Thodin

[Obokan 140]

10 minutes ago, druidh58 said:

The irony of it all is that Gaijin is promoting the game with high-profile vehicles. How many people get lured in by that, join in, but then find out that it will take years to acquire them, and then drop out again?

Most of the people I know who started WT because of modern vehicles quit for that very reason.