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Honest Economy Feedback, Suggestions


34 minutes ago, Cephalor said:

 

 

the in game economy is a magical fix with one thing; lesser SL repair costs. No reason that any repair cost should be over 5k in my mind at any point. 12k repair cost on the vicker mk1? really? same with the conqueror, 16k? seriously?

 

Naval players getting a mortgage to repair their top tier battleships

Edited by LD_FR
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33 minutes ago, LD_FR said:

Naval players getting a mortgage to repair their top tier battleships

on god dude. i refuse to touch naval for the crap sl you get when you're in the higher tier vs the cost. from my experience. though ive not really been that good at naval when i have tried it

 

Edited by Cephalor
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I'm a fairly new player, started I think last summer. I'm no stranger to these types of games, having some 5k games in WoT, not exactly much either, but got me two tier tens. Point being, I know how these games work. So after deciding I like this game  enough, I bought premium time

On to the actual feedback. I am an fairly average player. K/D not much above 1, WR hovering around 50%. Today, I had a session playing my 7.7 US lineup. All standard stuff, no premium vehicles at all in the mix. After playing some 15-20 games, I barely broke even in SL. And that is with premium time, as mentioned. Without premium, completely unplayable. I assume it's going to get even worse higher up, so something has to change. Be it more SL earned, cheaper vehicles, cheaper repairs or anything.

 

As bonus, grinding anything without parts of FPE? Such a painful experience. Why can't I just grab the stuff from another tank, It should be standard unlock for all the vehicles, the grind is already long enough, After a year of WT, 99% premium, 1000+ hours, I've 8.0 US and 7,3 Sweden, nothing more worth mentioning.

Edited by Teura
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Have 2 main issues with the current game economy

First. The rate at which you earn SLs in some gamemodes, such as GRB without Prem time or Vehicles is so low, that I do not believe it is actually possible to purchase a new vehicle within any kind of reasonable time frame without spending money. There is steady, but meaningful progression, and then there is the sheer cliff you have to climb sometimes to make any kind of progress. At least in something  like ARB, if you are new, or not that good, you can hit PvE/AI targets and still earn something. You cant do that in GRB. and yet GRB seems to have some pretty extreme SL repair costs (esepcially consider you have multiple respawns per RB match) and a lower overall reward/return for your time. Especially with how one sided it can also be. (No wonder so many quit after their first death. I suspect 90% of those that leave on one death, do so due to economy reasons and not anything else)

Secondly, some vehicles are, essentially, unplayable, not due to performance or BR, but economy. When economy is the deciding factor in WHAT you play, then you know something is wrong with the economy.

 

Take for example the Buc S2. It has a Sim repair cost of 33k and you'd need to stay alive for 16+ minutes, maintaining near max activity to recoup that initial spawn costs. And thats only to break even. So that would mean 2+ Sorties in the Buc S2 to break even. In comparison, the Tornado Gr1, the direct succesor to the Buc S2, has a repair cost of only 19k and only needs to stay alive for about 8 minutes at max acitivtiy to reclaim its spawn cost. (This is about the same for most fighters and ground attack aircraft) Despite the fact that the Gr1 is faster and has air to air missiles and a canon. Now I do want to stress that the Gr1 should not increase in cost, but instead the Buc S2 and other bombers in game, need an SL reduction, down to what would be comparible for a ground attack aircraft of the same BR, maybe a little higher, but currently most bombers have more than double the SL repair costs of their closest equivalent ground attack aircraft. That is insane and essentially makes all bombers worthless without having some other form of SL farming to support them. At minimum, I should be take the Buc S2 or any other bomber into a match, and leave again without going broke. 

Edited by Morvran_

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- Remove soft cap from match earnings.

- Better match earnings in general. I’d be happy with 10% extra SL/RP on wins, 5% extra SL/RP on loses.

- I want less repair costs. At least a 15% cut across the board. As well as a maximum cap vehicles of each tier cannot go over.

- I want less crew training costs (when crewing a new vehicle), At least a 15% cut across the board. As above with a maximum cap each tier cannot go over.

- Stop reducing premium vehicle reward modifiers. 

- Less vehicle RP required for research. At least a 15% cut across the board.

- Less modification RP required for research. At least 15% across the board.

- Less ace crew RP required to unlock. At least 15% across the board for tech tree. 30% less across the board for premiums.

- More crew RP per match. At least 15% across the board.

- Allow Covertable RP to be used with SL. Even if the conversion rate is far worse than GE. 

- Bring back golden eagle wagers. 

 

Purely from an economy standpoint that would make me happy. I think 15% is decent enough without being too unrealistic.

Edited by Jarms
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13 hours ago, HIDwhite@live said:

Gaijin just don't realize that, people play video game for fun, we don't want to make calculation before deploy a vehicle, can I gain positive SE this round?

 

Luckily I haven't encountered this yet. I play too many nations in ground battles, and after 2 years of playing the game I still don't have a lineup for Rank IV. I just assume that Rank IV repair costs are easy to pay for, if I have enough Rank III vehicles with expert crews.

 

@ToshibaTheZombie, your comments about food, housing and energy costs hit me like a train. We are suffering badly here in New Zealand.

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@ToshibaTheZombie hit it off, literally pointed out like everything that needed to be said, I completely agree with them. #1 thing as I see it is that us players don't NEED Gaijin, but Gaijin's employees NEED Gaijin, but I will also point out that its not the player's job to give money to Gaijin, its Gaijin's job to give us a product that we're happy enough to pay for. So not only is it super important for the players when Gaijin actually listens, but its also super important for their employees. If Gaijin makes a mistake and suddenly has to fire a ton of people is it the Player's fault? No. War Thunder is a product, first its a sample, but if we like it enough we might spend some money on it. I'll compare it to a sample at Costco, if we like it enough we might buy it, but if we find that it leaves a bad taste in our mouth then we won't buy it. If Gaijin wants money they need to fix their game because as of right now I can confidently say that playing War Thunder leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and many other mouths as well. I don't think that I have to rephrase what specifically I'd like to see, but just in case you need it for some sort of counter or something here it is.

 

1. Respect for the Players. The pure disrespect from that newsletter was abhorrent, it was like the nicest way of saying "you're dumb and here's why". I can't speak for all, but generally we are smarter than you think Gaijin, so trying to twist your mistake onto us is absolutely unacceptable.

 

2. Pay to Advance, some may call it Pay 2 Win, but I'd say its more Pay to Advance where you literally pay to buy a near top tier vehicle. I am so tired of seeing low level players at top tier when I know that they'll just charge into battle not even getting a kill and then leaving. It's worse when that premium is literally better than the no pay tech tree version. Most use the Premium Phantom as an example, but another example would the the Premium Draken J35XS. I will say that the Su-25, and Ka-50 are the most obvious Pay to Advance, and I dare say even Pay to Win Premiums, and while you can't really just delete those vehicles, nor am I saying you should, it is clearly obvious that they do more harm than good to the game and so should be dealt with by nerfing them, especially Air RB around 10.0 because if you have no flares or rockets then there is no reason to take out that plane if it'll see A-10's or Su-25's.

 

3. There was a claim that 80% of players don't pay for anything in the game, and I find that hard to believe. Although you may not be able to show us the exact stats there should be a way for you to show us something other than us having to go by word of mouth. This extends to other things too like where your stats come from on deciding balancing, especially seeing as that balancing is biased completely against the players no matter if its good for the vehicle or bad.

 

4. This feeds a little bit into #1, but still different enough that I wanted a different number for it. The grind is already too long for new players, even for me I have only gotten up to Sweden top tier because that was the easiest and most unique nation to grind, but I had it easy, and new players don't and won't have it easy ESPECIALLY if we unfolder vehicles, make everything cost more SL(repair costs), and keep making premiums better than tech tree variants.

 

I want the best for Gaijin and I'd assume everyone else on these forums especially on this topic does too, but sadly that's not OUR decision to make alone, Gaijin Please listen to your players, and don't become another WoT

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18 minutes ago, LZXI said:

3. There was a claim that 80% of players don't pay for anything in the game, and I find that hard to believe. Although you may not be able to show us the exact stats there should be a way for you to show us something other than us having to go by word of mouth. This extends to other things too like where your stats come from on deciding balancing, especially seeing as that balancing is biased completely against the players no matter if its good for the vehicle or bad.

At best it's a poorly thought out explanation, but I'm more inclined to believe that it's intentionally misleading.

 

This stat gives no indication of the time investment of each player, nor the last time they actually logged on at all. No indication of how much they paid, nor how frequently they pay.

 

A much more useful statistic would be average revenue per player per hour of play time, for example, or average money spent overall by players. Proportion of players with a certain amount of hours (eg >20 or >50) invested into the game who've paid over the past year, graphed in intervals of amount spent, would also be very interesting to see, alongside a graph of the number of players against playtime over the past year. Hell, show the average positions in progression for total playtimes, it'd be sobering to see how much time we've all invested as a community to reach the points in the trees we're all at now.

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"you can't give a player everything at once"... Gaijin... When have you ever given us anything straight up? Ever? Not once have I ever logged into the game and received a notification that I've gotten a free test drive for any vehicle of my choice, or a free pack of universal backups, a free bush, a free day of premium, a free anything outside of crappy boosters...(and most of the time its the RP one because they don't wanna see us win) So many games I play reward players for their continued support, even for logging in after periods of maintenance where servers were offline. Gaijin give absolutely nothing to us players outside of extra homework via the addition of more vehicles we'll get after a years worth of on and off grinding.Holy crap.
 

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My only real issue with the economy is that I get a significant negative SL balance after an RB or Sim match in any tech tree vehicle rank 5 or up....
I buy a lot of high tier premium vehicles, usually one per patch but have bought as much as 3 for a single patch! I can only play those because the others have too high repair cost. Not a little bit but significantly.
Can't we keep everything as is EXCEPT that there's a system that cancels out negative profit from a match (not incurred from team killing) for both the RB repair system and the sim SL spawn cost system?
I wouldn't buy less premium vehicles because I don't have time to grind, which makes it even worse that when I play a tech tree vehicle I can't afford the negative SL cost.... Because of this, top tier is essentially always out of reach for me, because of the repair cost.

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Something has to give, and we all understand you can't give the whole game on a platter as that will undermine your financial model and may result in permanent damages to your game.

 

  1. Remove diminishing returns on RP/SL, people who have a successful game should be rewarded. It's a little silly you get relatively speaking less rewards the better you do. This should actually be the other way around... you get more the better you do, but you should also not make it work in a way that people who aren't very good will not be able to progress (ie- reduce overall rewards as a result of removing diminishing returns, that shouldn't happen)
  2. Remove reward multiplier based on game timer and activity, you can get (Air RB) 5 kills in 5 minutes into the match, or after 20 minutes, your overall contribution towards a win is the same but the 5 minute match will give you far lower rewards. This is especially an issue in higher tiers
  3. Remove penalty of a loss game from the top 5 players on the losing team, there's a lot of randomness in your game as you aren't in control who is on your side or what they plan to do, or control the outcome on the maps where 1 side has an auto win due to AI killing each other

 

As for the overall RP/SL gain, I don't think it'll hurt you to give +33% RP/SL to non premium players, while giving premium +133% instead of +100% (or just flat reduction of RP/SL cost by 25% across all vehicles and mods - which is the same as +33% RP/SL for both non premium as well as premium players). The grind even with premium, and especially once you hit tier 6+, is quite annoying even as a decent player. I can only imagine the pain for people who struggle to get 1 kill or a 1:1 KD. There are so many vehicles currently to unlock, that it just takes too much time compared to say, 2016-2017.

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