Why negative* reviews?

[Firestarter__ 106]

19 minutes ago, Shadow__CZ said:

I also have problems with how the bug reporting works (even though I am not avid bug reporter myself) but I am lately getting the feeling that the issue isn´t completly inside the Gaijin as the company but with some of the bug report mods. Which is still Gaijin´s fault but logically Gaijin can´t fix bugs if they bugs don´t get to them.

 

Again the economy discussion thread has just 7 pages which is with average of 30 post per page that is just 210 posts at best where are the thousands which are now leaving the reviews on steam?

Point 1: understandable, equally better management might prevent that. I've had contact with members of forum staff over the matter of bug reports and usually been some response of "it's in the works" or similar and then not heard anything at all about it. Phimat pods on the Jaguar a case in point

 

Point 2: probably because people have a (semi-reasonable) perception that any criticism levelled at gaijin will instantly get sent to the never never land. Equally, it is a whole lot easier to convey dissatisfaction through a) a comment on a CC video (of which there are plenty), b) on a unofficial discord or a reddit post (of which there are many), or c) on a steam page (of which there are many, surprise surprise)

 

The Forums aren't the only medium of expression for Gaijin, and rightfully so. If all in game opinion were to be considered on the forum that would leave enormous potential for censorship, silencing, etc etc.

Whilst I sincerely doubt that Smin is actually an evil overlord who is more autocratic than North Korea, equally people are entitled to make their views heard on other platforms. Gaijin isn't ever obliged to listen to them (although as demonstrated here it's probably best if they did)

 

And in fairness, I'm sure I said earlier, most Gaijin employees are probably not at work. So I suspect we shall have to wait for Monday or Tuesday to see what reaction we get.

Like you I am hopeful for the best and hope that some such ineffectual nonsense such as a strike isn't necessary. (on a separate note I doubt such action would be effective but i digress)

 

At the end of the day, this incident favours no one. Gaijin because they're deprived of new players and potential income, and we the Players as Gaijin relies entirely on the goodwill and support of players, new and old alike.

 

Apologies for the wall of text

 

Edited May 21, 2023 by Firestarter__

[cashmeowsidehbd 1,269]

what gaijin REALLY needs is a viable competitor. That would cure a LOT of problems. Anyone with the $$$$ ready to step up? No? Then deal with it.

[星空高过天陶德胜亲爹ATAT 6]

Gaijin always disappoints us

Edited May 21, 2023 by 三船栞子的狗ATAT

[Shadow__CZ 2,198]

13 minutes ago, Firestarter__ said:

Point 1: understandable, equally better management might prevent that. I've had contact with members of forum staff over the matter of bug reports and usually been some response of "it's in the works" or similar and then not heard anything at all about it. Phimat pods on the Jaguar a case in point

I agree and I need to stress that I in fact know there are good mods in the bug report team but sadly when I was dealing with my bug reports which regarding technical issues I had them swept away either as not important or as issues on my end despite also seeing same issue in CC streams.

 

13 minutes ago, Firestarter__ said:

Point 2: probably because people have a (semi-reasonable) perception that any criticism levelled at gaijin will instantly get sent to the never never land. Equally, it is a whole lot easier to convey dissatisfaction through a) a comment on a CC video (of which there are plenty), b) on a unofficial discord or a reddit post (of which there are many), or c) on a steam page (of which there are many, surprise surprise)

 

The Forums aren't the only medium of expression for Gaijin, and rightfully so. If all in game opinion were to be considered on the forum that would leave enormous potential for censorship, silencing, etc etc.

Whilst I sincerely doubt that Smin is actually an evil overlord who is more autocratic than North Korea, equally people are entitled to make their views heard on other platforms. Gaijin isn't ever obliged to listen to them (although as demonstrated here it's probably best if they did)

I still have hard time understanding how this perception came to be since I personally directly argued with mods/staff and called Gaijin on their BS sometimes but I never got anything worse then verbal warning. I really fail to see how can someone get forum time-out. 

 

My problem with this is that I frequently on reddit see complaining about how Gaijin never listens ect. the Reddit comments can't be reliably taken as feedback WT reddit is too large and active for that + it is extreme echo chamber.

 

13 minutes ago, Firestarter__ said:

And in fairness, I'm sure I said earlier, most Gaijin employees are probably not at work. So I suspect we shall have to wait for Monday or Tuesday to see what reaction we get.

Like you I am hopeful for the best and hope that some such ineffectual nonsense such as a strike isn't necessary. (on a separate note I doubt such action would be effective but i digress)

I am hopeful we will see some response but I have bad feeling that reddit mob wont be satisfied with anything. Or that Gaijin will do something stupid like removing WT from Steam (after all they repeatedly during launch of Enlisted said they don't actually need Steam)

 

13 minutes ago, Firestarter__ said:

At the end of the day, this incident favours no one. Gaijin because they're deprived of new players and potential income, and we the Players as Gaijin relies entirely on the goodwill and support of players, new and old alike.

 

Apologies for the wall of text

 

No problem, I got bit ranty so I have no issues with longer reply.

[星空高过天陶德胜亲爹ATAT 6]

1 hour ago, Shadow__CZ said:

I need to say that current situation completly spiraled out of control and sadly I feel like both sides are to blame.

 

Gaijin for not having ounce of self reflection in what they write because the response and clarifications regarding the issues were really bad. And then there is their inability to create monetization model with having toptier be money black hole.

 

But I also need to say that community response was/is bad, the econ changes were bad only for top tier vehicles other tiers got net reduction in costs. But community instead of providing proper feedback regarding the issue in place where they might be heard the go to complain on reddit and when that doesn´t work they decide to review bomb the steam and feel like real heroes because of it. Looking at the numbers (10000+ reviews) I guarantee that if people werent lazy and actually went on the forum and complained we wouldn´t be in this situation.

 

I am honestly still baffled by the never ending complaing about the slow TT progression I simply don´t get it. I understand the stock grind because that is awful but why is it issue that player doesn´t get shiny new toy every 20-50 battles. What is bad about it, if someone enjoys the game then I don´t see the reason for the need to have shiny new toys and if someone doesn´t enjoy the game I really don´t believe that that shiny new toy will magically fix that.

I can understand the point when someone is interested in only modern vehicles and I think that is something which should be adressed but that isn´t what the majority of the complaing is about.

In fact, most people are more interested in top tier vehicles. Even if you only play with old vehicles, I still hope you can understand the feelings of top players. We are in great pain now. If players compromise, the profits will only become lower. If players succeed, the benefits of World War II will also become higher, and you will also benefit. I hope you don't think having too many SL's is a bad thing

[Bruce_R1 2,118]

1 hour ago, Shadow__CZ said:

Come on, the complaing can be without insulting and being civil. If the thousands bombing steam juts simply wrote that top tier repair cost are too high ect ect they wouldn´t be banned that is simply untrue.

The good thing is, my record of warnings and suspensions is public on my profile, including the words I said, as is anyone else who has been suspended. People can decide for themselves if we were civil. I think I was.

Edited May 21, 2023 by Bruce_R1

[Shadow__CZ 2,198]

24 minutes ago, 三船栞子的狗ATAT said:

In fact, most people are more interested in top tier vehicles. Even if you only play with old vehicles, I still hope you can understand the feelings of top players. We are in great pain now. If players compromise, the profits will only become lower. If players succeed, the benefits of World War II will also become higher, and you will also benefit. I hope you don't think having too many SL's is a bad thing

I just want to point out that it is quite disingenuous to call the econ update bad when something like 80% of vehicles got better and 20% got worse. 

Also the over presense of top tier in discussion isn't good for the game at all for several reasons. 

 

As for WW2 era the economy there is in fact fine and I am saying it as average F2P player without premium account with very little actual time to play. 

 

All I can say say that I would be in favor of gradual change instead of forcing Gaijin into the corner without any actual idea what to want will only make further drama. Because I don't see how changes Gaijin is willing to make would actually satisfy the mob now.

 

[Shadow__CZ 2,198]

6 minutes ago, Bruce_R1 said:

The good thing is, my record of warnings and suspensions is public on my profile, including the words I said, as is anyone else who has been suspended. People can decide for themselves if we were civil. I think I was.

Is it? You have like 3000 posts can you point me where I can find at least one post for which you were suspended.

[Bruce_R1 2,118]

2 minutes ago, Shadow__CZ said:

Is it? You have like 3000 posts can you point me where I can find at least one post for which you were suspended.

As we've been told here repeatedly in the past, for me to do that would violate rule 1.1.5 (challenging moderation). I like it here. So you'll have to forgive me for not risking a permaban

[Threashold 224]

I mean I Agree about they don't know about the suffer, like all of them uses an account which has everything unlocked, But the point of view from F2P player who just play will literally take him 3 month or more of non stop playing to just get to Tier VI in one section. which is 2190 of non stop playing. 

[Pacifica 15,971]

14 minutes ago, Bruce_R1 said:

The good thing is, my record of warnings and suspensions is public on my profile, including the words I said, as is anyone else who has been suspended. People can decide for themselves if we were civil. I think I was.

 

5 minutes ago, Shadow__CZ said:

Is it? You have like 3000 posts can you point me where I can find at least one post for which you were suspended.

 

1 minute ago, Bruce_R1 said:

As we've been told here repeatedly in the past, for me to do that would violate rule 1.1.5 (challenging moderation). I like it here. So you'll have to forgive me for not risking a permaban

 

you can PM him and tell him what you said... especially what you said last year..... we have it on record.....

 

 

But.... anyway............... Enough with the Disputing Moderation guys! back on Topic! Thank you!

 

[Bruce_R1 2,118]

7 minutes ago, Pacifica said:

 

you can PM him and tell him what you said... especially what you said last year..... we have it on record.....

 

But.... anyway............... Enough with the Disputing Moderation guys! back on Topic! Thank you!

Hmm, I wasn't suspended for anything I said "last year" though. That suspension for the 1.1.1 violation we were referring to, for allegedly insulting Gaijin, the company, was THIS year. So I have no idea what you're referring to there.

The entire question of the thread was, why don't people just express themselves here, instead of review-bombing? So, with all the respect due the moderation here, a discussion of what can happen to you when you break rule 1.1.1 ("Do not... insult... Gaijin") IS the topic. Otherwise people won't know the limits of what's acceptable speech here and, given recent statements that you want to hear ALL our comments now, please don't review-bomb us anymore, could even risk similar punishments to those I and others have already received.

I want to be clear, I don't condone or participate in review-bombing. I am fine expressing myself within the rules of this forum and I think others should feel that way too. Just trying to give context for why others may find that too restrictive.

[Pacifica 15,971]

6 minutes ago, Bruce_R1 said:

Hmm, I wasn't suspended for anything I said "last year" though. That suspension for the 1.1.1 violation we were referring to, for allegedly insulting Gaijin, the company, was THIS year. So I have no idea what you're referring to there.

The entire question of the thread was, why don't people just express themselves here, instead of review-bombing? So, with all the respect due the moderation here, a discussion of what can happen to you when you break rule 1.1.1 ("Do not... insult... Gaijin") IS the topic. Otherwise people won't know the limits of what's acceptable speech here and, given recent statements that you want to hear ALL our comments now, please don't review-bomb us anymore, could even risk similar punishments to those I and others have already received.

I want to be clear, I don't condone or participate in review-bombing. I am fine expressing myself within the rules of this forum and I think others should feel that way too. Just trying to give context for why others may find that too restrictive.

 

Alright look....

 

Your last comment was a rule breaking comment because it was misinformation and giving people the wrong idea... we want people to make reports, and all your comment was doing was persuading them to do otherwise... if you had issues with the insulting part, then you should have PMed us and we can sort it out, we do copy paste the rules for making warnings, so sometimes we may have gathered up other rules by mistake or forgot to remove the rules that are not relevant in the warning

 

But, the main concern here is when people see comments like... (not necessarily your words)

1. do not do it... they will not listen.....
2. your wasting your time filling out that survey or feedback...
3. all the reports will be thrown out anyway... why waste time....

When people see that, they see it as FACT and do not know any better...... so, we do remove them in heated topics because as I mentioned people get the wrong idea and we want to hear what people have to say, but it also makes it that much harder for people to follow the topic at hand when something is filled with misinformation and do not know what to believe 

[Pacifica 15,971]

And to add.... we fully understand that people care about the game and its direction, we know how passionate about the game people are.... we know how frustrated people are are.... we know because we are players as well.... but, we have a job to do and we can give our feedback by other means

 

Some maybe bit too passionate... and so we may need to issue warnings, but other than that we accept all forms of Feedback... even Negative Feedback we allowed, as long as it is done right without throwing in misinformation or something that breaks our rules....

 

 

[YouAreTooDeep 1]

Just boost base sl/rp by 60% and reduce rp/sl cost of every vehicle in game by 15% and repair cost of every vehicle 3 tier + by 65%. Thats all. Everyone is happy life is good we can love world.

 

Edited May 21, 2023 by YouAreTooDeep

[Real K Soze@live 407]

11 minutes ago, Shadow__CZ said:

I just want to point out that it is quite disingenuous to call the econ update bad when something like 80% of vehicles got better and 20% got worse. 

Also the over presense of top tier in discussion isn't good for the game at all for several reasons. 

 

As for WW2 era the economy there is in fact fine and I am saying it as average F2P player without premium account with very little actual time to play. 

 

No offense man, but i have zero clue where you got the 80% "vehicle get better" number. But even if this number might be correct - the core message of the economy update was that lower ranks will benefit from it and higher ranks will have reduced profitability for the average player.

 

Despite i play props only - it is quite obvious that at least in Air RB the majority wants to play top tier. And you might acknowledge that you see there those shiny 70$ premium planes - and the players still struggle with the return for their money regarding profitability. So it is logical that most of those premium buyers want to see a better return from their investment.

 

And for WW2 you might play other modes than Air RB, because a fine economy looks different for me. If i score in a BR 4.0 TT plane (SM.92 Rank IV) 3 kills in a match i get around 14k SL. If i got killed i lose 5,6k SL repair cost and  every time 1,3k SL for ammunition. Net income in an actual case: 7.4k SL. This not really convincing. But i actually do not care, as i play just for fun. 

 

And tbh i would be happy to spend some money if we would have a flawless game, but not for vehicles as i have everything i need. 

 

I would pay a lot if all these issues regarding BR setting, matchmaking, team composition, unbalanced maps and vehicles, non-historical loadout nerfs, etc. would be fixed - and if bug reports would be processed in a timely manner - or at all. There are a hell of flaws in game mechanics within Air RB which (together with the previous topics) constantly decrease my commitment to wt - for several years now. 

 

Don't get me wrong, i still love wt as it fits for me, but the changes in the last 3 to 4 years (and especially since November 2022) for Air RB were imho not good for this game mode.

 

  

40 minutes ago, Shadow__CZ said:

All I can say say that I would be in favor of gradual change instead of forcing Gaijin into the corner without any actual idea what to want will only make further drama. Because I don't see how changes Gaijin is willing to make would actually satisfy the mob now.

 

I do not think that "mob" is the right wording.

I mean gaijin is not a victim here, it is imho just the result of their feedback resistance for many years.

With a good crisis management they can come to the right conclusions.

 

16 minutes ago, Bruce_R1 said:

...could even risk similar punishments to those I and others have already received.

 

I mean your risk assessment is not really a conspiracy theory, but imho it is usually the wording and not the content of posts which leads to punishments. On the other other hand some really interesting topics can't be discussed (ex. forbidden modifications, etc.) as they are excluded from discussion. If i remember those passionate 24/7 players, you know what i mean.

 

[zuh 188]

Personally, I'm not very active on forum because it feels like a waste of time. In my mind Gaijin is not much interested in opinions, and it seems like it is rare that they act on feedback in significant way.

I believe that most of the players don't bother to even open the forum unless they need solution. Saying that, In my mind, majority of players don't play the game consistently, just from time to time and those are most likely pure F2P players. I don't have data, that is just my educated guess.

 

The community complains about crafting events for years and the biggest change was making summer/winter event more grindy. Why wasting time complaining on forum? Back, when I was in school and had ton of time, I probably would "keep fighting", but I started playing WT in 2011, right after Uni, and Time become much more precious. I would rather play a game as long as is somewhat playable than fight with the windmills. 

 

It seems that Gaijin is so focused on their interpretation of the statistical data (which may not be always right). That stopped thinking about what makes the game fun, and what keeps players happy. It is almost like keeping people frustrated is part of the business model. In current state, if you care about progress, there is much less fun in a game than years back. At least in Air Battles, because that what I always played. 

 

My feedback in the article comment section? Still not approved- not going to bother again either. 

 

But I have changed my Positive review into Negative- which takes 2 minutes. In all honesty, it made me sad. I love WT, when in game, but It is very difficult to even like it, when in the hangar, even harder during the crafting event. 

 

I will just leave it here:

 

That does not make me happy, but perhaps is necessary?

 

 

Edited May 22, 2023 by zuh

[AlvisWisla 225]

6 hours ago, WinstonWolfe said:

My biggest problem is the economy. Nerfing premiums which cost its money and today you can't use them, and the reality that forces me (owning premium account for few years in row) to farm SL on low battle ratings.

 

BTW grind is ridiculous even with premium acc, non existing with f2p one.

I mean yeah, going down to 545 was excessive. Should be 630 in-line with the other F-4s tho.

[Cephalor 76]

51 minutes ago, zuh said:

Personally, I'm not very active on forum because it feels like a waste of time. In my mind Gaijin is not much interested in opinions, and it seems like it is rare that they act on feedback in significant way.

I believe that most of the players don't bother to even open the forum unless they need solution. Saying that, In my mind, majority of players don't play the game consistently, just from time to time and those are most likely pure F2P players. I don't have data, that is just my educated guess.

 

The community complains about crafting events for years and the biggest change was making summer/winter event more grindy. Why wasting time complaining on forum? Back, when I was in school and had ton of time, I probably would "keep fighting", but I started playing WT in 2011, right after Uni, and Time become much more precious. I would rather play a game as long as is somewhat playable than fight with the windmills. 

 

It seems that Gaijin is so focused on their interpretation of the statistical data (which may not be always right). That stopped thinking about what makes the game fun, and what keeps players happy. It is almost like keeping people frustrated is part of the business model. In current state, if you care about progress, there is much less fun in a game than years back. At least in Air Battles, because that what I always played. 

 

My feedback in the article comment section? Still not approved- not going to bother again either. 

 

But I have changed my Positive review into Negative- which takes 2 minutes. In all honesty, it made me sad. I love WT, when in game, but It is very difficult to even like it, when in the hangar, even harder during the crafting event. 

 

I will just leave it here:

 

That does not make me happy, but perhaps is necessary?

 

 

wow that went from somewhat negative to overwhelmingly negative in the span of a day

 

[AlvisWisla 225]

52 minutes ago, zuh said:

Personally, I'm not very active on forum because it feels like a waste of time. In my mind Gaijin is not much interested in opinions, and it seems like it is rare that they act on feedback in significant way.

I believe that most of the players don't bother to even open the forum unless they need solution. Saying that, In my mind, majority of players don't play the game consistently, just from time to time and those are most likely pure F2P players. I don't have data, that is just my educated guess.

 

The community complains about crafting events for years and the biggest change was making summer/winter event more grindy. Why wasting time complaining on forum? Back, when I was in school and had ton of time, I probably would "keep fighting", but I started playing WT in 2011, right after Uni, and Time become much more precious. I would rather play a game as long as is somewhat playable than fight with the windmills. 

 

It seems that Gaijin is so focused on their interpretation of the statistical data (which may not be always right). That stopped thinking about what makes the game fun, and what keeps players happy. It is almost like keeping people frustrated is part of the business model. In current state, if you care about progress, there is much less fun in a game than years back. At least in Air Battles, because that what I always played.

 

But I have changed my Positive review into Negative- which takes 2 minutes. In all honesty, it made me sad. I love WT, when in game, but It is very difficult to even like it, when in the hangar, even harder during the crafting event.

 

It's funny cause events have been made easier over time due to player feedback.
The points system is the best system yet for events. Supply your economy ideas to Gaijin via the form. & wait for polls & announcements. Keep supplying feedback.
Those that don't talk are never heard.

Also don't use disrespectful language. I know this shouldn't need to be said, but with how many toxic people are doing things right now, I'm saying it anyway.

[zuh 188]

9 minutes ago, RazerVon said:

It's funny cause events have been made easier over time due to player feedback.

 

It took me 5-6 games to do an Air stage in old, task system. 

It takes me 15-25 games to do an Air stage now.

I do like point system more- it just require too many points in comparison to task system, in the Air battles.

 

On the top of that, without getting into details, didn't Gaijin make series of changes that effectively reduces amount of points that you can make in a game?

 

At least that is my experience.   

[AlvisWisla 225]

10 minutes ago, zuh said:

 

It took me 5-6 games to do an Air stage in old, task system. 

It takes me 15-25 games to do an Air stage now.

I do like point system more- it just require too many points in comparison to task system, in the Air battles.

 

On the top of that, without getting into details, didn't Gaijin make series of changes that effectively reduces amount of points that you can make in a game?

 

At least that is my experience.   

It took me 2 - 4 sim matches one of the recent events. The Tornado IDS one.
And no, no changes have been made the reduces points. They reduced bounces points for now due to machine gun exploit, but that's it.

Edited May 22, 2023 by RazerVon

[Bruce_R1 2,118]

3 hours ago, Pacifica said:

But, the main concern here is when people see comments like... (not necessarily your words)

1. do not do it... they will not listen.....
2. your wasting your time filling out that survey or feedback...
3. all the reports will be thrown out anyway... why waste time....

For the record, not disputing or challenging your moderation in any way, I didn't say any of those things on your list either today, or in the comment I made that naval botting reports by players had thus far been largely ineffective that I was suspended for in February (in a thread that shortly after was locked and buried). If you say that statement in February was suspendable because I insulted the company, I accept that, as I did when I had to accept the rule breaking warning after my suspension. I will save my any further dispute I have with your characterization of my comments above, for a DM. Cheers.

[Bruce_R1 2,118]

41 minutes ago, RazerVon said:

It's funny cause events have been made easier over time due to player feedback.

What? No they haven't. The last legend of victory type event, the Sturmtiger, you could take one two-day period out of seven off. This one you had to play all six, no day off. This event that finished today was significantly harder than the preceding one, and that one was harder in terms of score than the last May event with the IS-2. Every one of these single-vehicle events has been a little harder to complete than the last.

I mean, if you had some other event in mind I don't know, but the one that actually finishes today got a little bit harder this time, that's indisputable.

[C0caC0laEspuma 1,404]

11 hours ago, Zucc_Boi said:

Who here remembers the BMP-2M with its Kornet ATGMs was once an 8.7 vehicle?

Also who here remembers or played top tier games in ARB when the game stucked at BR9.0 and no missiles/supersonic jets. People called the CL-13A Mk.5 overpowered because it was " few km/h faster than other aircrafts like American Sabres"... 

 

Yeah, It was unbalanced as well but still better than current mess. I really miss these days and would like to play old top tier again. 

 

 

Edited May 22, 2023 by WheelchairGamer