F-16ADF/MLU flight model

[IngegnerMacchi 623]

Greetings everyone, I own both the F-16A block 10 and the F-16ADF and while testing i've figured that the FM differences are huge (with the former pulling 11-12Gs and the latter capping at 9Gs in the same maneuver). considering that the E-M diagrams are the same, and that IRL the F-16ADF had a 30% increase in elevator surface compared to the A in contrast to an abysmall weight increase of less than 300kg... why then is the Block 10 way superior to the ADF/MLU in game while it shouldn't be the case IRL?

 

[Conte_Baracca 4,547]

Hey.  They gotta artificially nerf US stuff and artificially buff Russia stuff or Russian stuff would all be below 10.0 BR

 

[IngegnerMacchi 623]

8 hours ago, Conte_Baracca said:

Hey.  They gotta artificially nerf US stuff and artificially buff Russia stuff or Russian stuff would all be below 10.0 BR

 

Nothing new really, but this time It affects not only america (even tho they still have access to a good F-16 with the block10) but also china (MLU) and Italy (ADF)... The Netz and F-16AJ (that now with this Is the best air superiority F-16 inthr game despite being fake) are not affected since they are based on the block10 model... I have no idea why the Better F-16s are actually worse than the previous ones, i Just Hope people notice and gaijin fixes the issue

[Cpt_Bel_V 4,790]

My only regret is that we have not even dumb bombs on F-16 ADF.

[S__bastienZ88 635]

Good question and why is the F16A-ADF before the F16A Block10? Isn't the Block15 a further development of the Block10?

[Cpt_Bel_V 4,790]

1 hour ago, S__bastienZ88 said:

Good question and why is the F16A-ADF before the F16A Block10? Isn't the Block15 a further development of the Block10?

No A2G

[daMatchstick 71]

2 hours ago, S__bastienZ88 said:

Good question and why is the F16A-ADF before the F16A Block10? Isn't the Block15 a further development of the Block10?

the blk 15 ADF is effectively a side-grade  to the blk 10 in game, you trade the ability to ground pound for being able to engage from long range

[DracoMindC 317]

14 hours ago, IngegnerMacchi said:

Greetings everyone, I own both the F-16A block 10 and the F-16ADF and while testing i've figured that the FM differences are huge (with the former pulling 11-12Gs and the latter capping at 9Gs in the same maneuver). considering that the E-M diagrams are the same, and that IRL the F-16ADF had a 30% increase in elevator surface compared to the A in contrast to an abysmall weight increase of less than 300kg... why then is the Block 10 way superior to the ADF/MLU in game while it shouldn't be the case IRL?

 

Note these EM graphs are not from the airforce but rather a advert from Northrop related to the F-20 and invalid

 

if you compare SAC graphs between the Block 10 and Block 15 the block 10 is actually more maneuverable

[IngegnerMacchi 623]

1 hour ago, DracoMindC said:

Note these EM graphs are not from the airforce but rather a advert from Northrop related to the F-20 and invalid

 

if you compare SAC graphs between the Block 10 and Block 15 the block 10 is actually more maneuverable

can you send the diagram you are referring to? because the F-16block 10 has 30% less elevator than the ADF and MLU

[IngegnerMacchi 623]

3 hours ago, Cpt_Bel_V said:

No A2G

IRL they could, they didn't loose the capability, simply they weren't used to A2G

1 hour ago, daMatchstick said:

the blk 15 ADF is effectively a side-grade  to the blk 10 in game, you trade the ability to ground pound for being able to engage from long range

not IRL

[DracoMindC 317]

14 minutes ago, IngegnerMacchi said:

can you send the diagram you are referring to? because the F-16block 10 has 30% less elevator than the ADF and MLU

The elevator size has nothing to do with maneuverability it was only made larger for the sake of stability and countering the extra weight for the chin pylons

 as for SAC

 

F-16A-10

Spoiler

weight:

 F-16A-15

Spoiler

weight:

 

Basically the Block 15 is heavier and the larger elevators dont just magically make it turn better and thats not what they are meant to do either

[IngegnerMacchi 623]

5 minutes ago, DracoMindC said:

The elevator size has nothing to do with maneuverability it was only made larger for the sake of stability and countering the extra weight for the chin pylons

 as for SAC

 

F-16A-10

Hide contents

weight:

 F-16A-15

Hide contents

weight:

 

Basically the Block 15 is heavier and the larger elevators dont just magically make it turn better and thats not what they are meant to do either

excuse me, but if you look at the graphs data, the difference between the weight empty, basic and operating is a 600lb, why is the combat weight of the E-M and sustained rate graphs have 3000+lb weight difference? it makes no sense to evaluate the planes with more than the "dead weight" the Block 15 is bringing. Especially since such a difference cannot be justified by carrying sparrows instead of sidewanders, you are giving different loads to the 2 planes

[DracoMindC 317]

19 minutes ago, IngegnerMacchi said:

excuse me, but if you look at the graphs data, the difference between the weight empty, basic and operating is a 600lb, why is the combat weight of the E-M and sustained rate graphs have 3000+lb weight difference? it makes no sense to evaluate the planes with more than the "dead weight" the Block 15 is bringing. Especially since such a difference cannot be justified by carrying sparrows instead of sidewanders, you are giving different loads to the 2 planes

they both use combat weight the F-16 block 15 is just heavier in a combat config, they both have the same loading combat config in these graphs

[IngegnerMacchi 623]

19 minutes ago, DracoMindC said:

they both use combat weight the F-16 block 15 is just heavier in a combat config, they both have the same loading combat config in these graphs

In reality no, the F-16A block 15 has a difference of 600lb over the F-16A block 10 due to it being heavier (but that's it), that would be the max difference in combat weight, when you test vehicles you have to give them the same payload, not different payload and fuel capacity. that's why those graphs are not comparable, they refer to planes with a different % of combat weight... one let's say is loaded to the 30% of the maximum weight the other to the 50%... of course one is going to perform worse

In fact if you check the weight in game, the difference between the planes without weapons loaded is 280kgs

Edited May 21, 2023 by IngegnerMacchi

[DracoMindC 317]

23 minutes ago, IngegnerMacchi said:

In reality no, the F-16A block 15 has a difference of 600lb over the F-16A block 10 due to it being heavier (but that's it), that would be the max difference in combat weight, when you test vehicles you have to give them the same payload, not different payload and fuel capacity. that's why those graphs are not comparable, they refer to planes with a different % of combat weight... one let's say is loaded to the 30% of the maximum weight the other to the 50%... of course one is going to perform worse

In fact if you check the weight in game, the difference between the planes without weapons loaded is 280kgs

Yeah the weight difference is the cause of the performance difference, the Block 10 only turns just short of a degree per second better than the Block 15 which tracks with the weight difference

[IngegnerMacchi 623]

22 minutes ago, DracoMindC said:

Yeah the weight difference is the cause of the performance difference, the Block 10 only turns just short of a degree per second better than the Block 15 which tracks with the weight difference

I did this post because:

1) the weight difference of 600lb (280kg) is literally non influent especially compared to the fact that ADF and MLU have 30%more elevator surface

2) in game the performance difference is not slight, goes from outrating pretty severely the Mig-29 and being able to keep up in one circle to being completely inferior in both situations (not a mere degree per second, the difference in performance is huge and the F-16ADF/MLU cannot go over 9G while the A block 10, Netz and AJ can go up to 12G)

[IngegnerMacchi 623]

1 hour ago, DracoMindC said:

Yeah the weight difference is the cause of the performance difference, the Block 10 only turns just short of a degree per second better than the Block 15 which tracks with the weight difference

yes but you are ignoring the fact that those graphs are for 2 different configurations in loadouts, one is 3000lb heavier... if we consider the difference in air to air loadout, the 2 sparrow weight 1000lb compared to the 2 sidewinder they are replacing that weight 300lb... so at max consider 2 different loadout (that makes no sense in an evaluation) the max difference in weight would be 1300lb (700 difference from sparrow and 600 from structural weight). far from the 3000 lb in those graphs

[raptor2-40delta@psn 145]

Honestly, they either give every top tier aircraft their true G limits, or they remove them from the F16.. and the fact that only some versions have a g limit is proof that gaijins takes their decisions with something that for sure isn’t the brain.

+1 to make F16 g limit on par with the rest of the models

[ÖL 613]

Whats the empty weight difference between the block 10 and 20? Because even if its 600lbs thats just a couple of minutes worth of fuel. Shouldnt really be that noticeable

[IngegnerMacchi 623]

19 minutes ago, ÖL said:

Whats the empty weight difference between the block 10 and 20? Because even if its 600lbs thats just a couple of minutes worth of fuel. Shouldnt really be that noticeable

Between 10 and 15 is 600lb (280kg) not due to fuel but for upgraded systems... Even then the performance should be exactly the same or slightly Better for the block15-20 onwards due to having 30% more elevator surface

Edited May 28, 2023 by IngegnerMacchi

[ÖL 613]

45 minutes ago, IngegnerMacchi said:

Between 10 and 15 is 600lb (280kg) not due to fuel but for upgraded systems... Even then the performance should be exactly the same or slightly Better for the block15-20 onwards due to having 30% more elevator surface

I know its not due to fuel. What im saying is that the difference should not be noticed as the block 15 will weigh exactly the same if you have just a couple of minutes of less fuel in it. Still hard to understand?

Edited May 28, 2023 by ÖL

[IngegnerMacchi 623]

5 hours ago, ÖL said:

I know its not due to fuel. What im saying is that the difference should not be noticed as the block 15 will weigh exactly the same if you have just a couple of minutes of less fuel in it. Still hard to understand?

I understood what you meant, even then, i doubt that 600lb Is even 2 minutes of fuel, I think Is way less, so way less noticeable even of what you said. Is It hard not to be rude?

[ÖL 613]

1 hour ago, IngegnerMacchi said:

I understood what you meant, even then, i doubt that 600lb Is even 2 minutes of fuel, I think Is way less, so way less noticeable even of what you said. Is It hard not to be rude?

True. Yeah it was hard with your answer tbh

[raptor2-40delta@psn 145]

More weight or not I’m not touching the ADF until they fix the G limit.. I’m tired of being out turned by F104 and being a flying brick while everyone else pulls easily 12g without breaking.

[_Pterodacty91855 193]

F-16 is modeled so poorly in Warthunder it might as well not be there.  

 

Face it, Gaijin will artificially nerf every US jet/tank from now on because Russian equipment is garbage.  Real life war let everyone know the state of Russian equipment.  Its not what they claim to be or what everyone that it was.  Now gaijin must walk back US tech because our 1980's stuff moonwalks all over their 2020 stuff.  

 

Its just the way its going to be from now on.  Its just Russian/Gaijin cope.  Sorry my Aim-54a made in 1960 so strong you have to add missiles from 2000 to the mig-29.  /shrug

 

Edited May 28, 2023 by BrBStoveXploded