Top Tier, Economy, Balancing - Some thoughts on what needs to be fixed

[Klassischer_Durc 8]

Hello everyone,

As you can see, Im not an active member in this community, as I just wanna share some thoughts with you and especially with the developers of this game. Compared to many Im a relatively new Player with 800 hours in the game in two years. already stopped playing in Tier IV, but found my way back into the game we all love and hate at the same time.
I already considered to leave my 2 cents here a while ago, and as things are going as they are at the moment, I thought it was the right time to do so. Because although War Thunder is a great game, some problems really caused me to stop playing, and its not only the economy. So I wanted to point out four main problems that really need to be adressed, things that are discussed everywhere by everyone, without much is happening on the side of the developers. Because of the current Situation, lets start with

The Economy / The Grind
First, as they introduced the economic changes, I really didnt get what was happening at all. Lets just hope that this wasnt intentional by Gaijin and was just a brain issue on my side. Now after they reverted the changes and got that massive riots in the community, I have to say that this is absolutely deserved, for what they wanted to change.
Starting where it all began for me, I was introduced by a friend into the game, and for the first like 200 hours it was a complete suffering. I was performing abysmal, hardly couldnt make any money, even with my premium account, and playing with a lot of anxiety because of that. To be fair, this was clearly a skill issue, but what could you expect with only a few hours into the game. And as my progress on new vehicles was getting slower and slower, because I went up in the tiers, I lost my motivation to play at all and quitted the game for more than 6 months. Coming back later, buying some premiums, making progress and having fun, understanding the game better I guess. Being now at T8 in Air and T7 in Ground (USA), I hardly make money again, cause my premiums are in Lineups of a lower BR and buying mods and vehicles is really expensive.
So, whats the point here? Its the thing that you get punished for playing the game into higher tier, and you worked hundrets of hours to get there. I dont even expert my vehicles, its just too expensive and would lead to even more grinding silver lions. I have to admit that the grind for RP alone isnt the problem for me, cause I just need to play (a lot) to make progress, and I do enjoy the game. But when youre getting punished for dying to often, its just frustrating, it leads to people quitting before they have to, it leads to spamming premiums and it destroyes any fun you could have in top tier, with the bad balancing on top. 
And its simple to fix that: Do not punish players that already invested hundrets of hours, most likely money and so much effort for playing in their high tier vehicles. And dont punish newer players into lower tiers for performing bad by destroying their economy, too. Its clear you want to sell premiums, you have to, cause the game is F2P. But there are so many things were you have to spend your SL to, crewing and buying vehicles, training crews, buying modifications. So to fix the economy, why not just lower the repair cost by a lot, or maybe completely get rid of them? Its a completly unnecessary mechanic, punishing players for playing the game when they dont do well. Its already frustrating to die a lot, essentially turning the game to a pay to play. EVEN WITH A PREMIUM ACCOUNT.

 

Top Tier / Balancing
So I mentioned before my abusive relationship with Top Tiers (6 and above), specifically Ground RB. To leave another anecdote here, my first game in Tier 6, as I just got my shiny stock abrams tank and was playing with a friend, who already told me that the top tiers are... special. The following game was a summary of what top tier is still right now: We were getting obliterated by T80s, T90s, BMP2Ms. At the end of the match we were defending our base while four (!) KA50s peppered us with Vikhrs. And that was before the 2S38, the Pantsir and the coming Su39/Su25t. And before the Drones.
Here we are with our broken economy, but hey, Im not a bad player, just have to perform a bit better do make money again. And now we have the balancing, which is consistently getting worse, the higher tiers you reach. Even if the statistics on Thunderskill etc are not complete, they show us what all of us are already experiencing: UDSSR Teams are a nightmare in top tiers. I dont want to go to every specific, problematic vehicle, just for a quick demonstration: They have the best performing tank (T80BVM), the best helicopter (KA52), the best light vehicle (BMP2M), the best anti air (Pantsir), the best fighter (MiG29) and the best Attacker (SU25/25t in the future). And for that reason, its the most played nation by far! I dont want to get into that russian bias thing cause its super counterproductive, but there is a reason this accusation comes off so often. Just tell me: WT wants to be a kinda semi realistic game, while maintaining balancing of course, which should be most important. Why is the UdSSR so strong into top tier then? Balancing is way off obviously, and when it comes to the performance of the vehicles in reality... At least you can say they arent THAT good. So why are these vehicles so good then? As ive gotten though the M60 hell by myself, some nations arent that good in specific tiers, and Im okay with it. But why is a nation an absolute beast in a period of constant failures and defeats of its vehicles in the last 30 years? There is just no justification for it.
I dont know much about other nations as I am an US Main, so I will stick to them for a comparison (US has a 40% Winrate in Top Tiers atm). Could you tell me why the USA are constantly held back, even though they are clearly underperforming? There is no M829A3 (which is produced since 2003) and no M829A4 (in service since 2015) in the game. There is no fire and forget Hellfire for the Apache. There is no A10C (which would be the counterpart of the SU25t at least). Even the Tandem warhead for the Bradley just recently dropped.
And there are exaples in other nations too, like the german top SPAA got nerfed to hell recently. Or in other gamemodes, like the F16s manouverability, which is worse that that of a Phantom on high speeds (talking of semi-realism, in Reality the MiG29 is known for being the king of low speeds, while the F16 has the edge on higher speeds, at least to my knowledge).
These are just some exaples of a completely unbalanced game and it keeps getting worse. The UdSSR needs to be nerfed. Other nations need to be buffed. If nothing is done, we keep losing money for defeats we cant prevent, because you and your non-russian team gets deleted by all the mighty russian empire has to offer.

 

Premium Spam
The result of the bad economy are players buying premium vehicles to farm SL and RP. No problem on the side of the developer, they are earning money, which is good for the game and so its good for the players. Thats what I once thought, even after engaging the SU-11. But then I got my F4C. A jet that has to compete against SU25s and A10s with R60s and AIM9Ls, without having flares. I cant remember how my mind survived that grind, it was the most unfair experience I had with War Thunder, as the only thing you can do here is, do not get shot at. Not even do not get hit, you can outmanouver lower missiles, but not these.
So 10.0 Air RB is now a Premium Playground, where you can have fun with the right vehicle (F8E!) but you suffer with some others. Most of the time its just boring, teams consisting of 80% A10s are no exception, you are fighting against the same 5 vehicles all the time. In Ground another issue is obviously (new) players, that are buying a premium vehicle and leaving the game after dying once, which happens quickly, because they are new players. Top Tier matches most of the time are over after a few minutes, everyone is just charging in to get the most out of these few minutes before there are no enemies left to kill.
What would be at least a beginning to adress this problem: Prevent players to start matches in a respective BR with just one vehicle into that BR. As an example, if you want to play 10.0, you should need to have at least 2 or 3 vehicles in BR 9.0 or above.

 

Maps
Lastly, I quickly wanna mention the maps, which are mostly okay for lower tiers, but are a mess in top tiers too many times. I hope the issue is already getting solved, since Air RB got new, bigger maps recently and is way better because of that, good job! In Ground, there are many maps, but in like half of them I just wanna quit instantly because I already know how the game will turn out. Players shooting players from spawn to spawn, large, open areas with no tactical possibilities, or on the other hand complete mess with a street full of destroyed tanks, which can be entertaining sometimes at least. My suggestion is to rework every map thats currently in the game. Do what youve done in Air RB, its better to have less maps in the pool, instead of having dozens which are absolutely not fun to play.

 

I hope youve made it to the end. War Thunder is a great game and I definitly look forward for the coming patch! But besides adding these new, cool vehicles to give players something to grind for, the game itself is completely broken at the moment. That needs to be adressed. If its getting worse like that, I have the feelling that at some point the game will be completely unplayable not just for me, but for many others!

[Cpt_Bel_V 4,790]

Answer the survey instead of create & forum post:

https://warthunder.com/en/news/8259-revising-the-economy-en

Edited May 21, 2023 by Cpt_Bel_V

[Alikiwi55 124]

He's entitled to make a post and he's been civil about it as well. This is one problem in the forums, too much censorship. Open level headed debate is what is needed. By all means answer the survey (I've done it), but we can and should have both.

[TheBraveGallade 59]

the problem with the prem spam is more of a symtom of unlocking things taking so long, basically.

at any rate one thing i will bring up is that at least some SL repair cost is nessisary to discourage bad and rekless play.

people will be less prone to suicide bombing if repair costs were decently high for example.

[Jarms 1,558]

4 minutes ago, TheBraveGallade said:

the problem with the prem spam is more of a symtom of unlocking things taking so long, basically.

at any rate one thing i will bring up is that at least some SL repair cost is nessisary to discourage bad and rekless play.

people will be less prone to suicide bombing if repair costs were decently high for example.

Not just that but events and BP’s being nearly constant. Flooding the game with premiums.

[Annoxium 8]

37 minutes ago, Alikiwi55 said:

He's entitled to make a post and he's been civil about it as well. This is one problem in the forums, too much censorship. Open level headed debate is what is needed. By all means answer the survey (I've done it), but we can and should have both.

I wholeheartedly agree with your perspective. Open and civil discussions about the game are not only beneficial but also essential for fostering a healthy community and inspiring further improvements. When players come together to share their thoughts and ideas, it creates an environment where constructive feedback can flourish. By maintaining a respectful and constructive approach to discussions, we can collectively contribute to the ongoing development and refinement of War Thunder.

[Morvran_ 661]

1 hour ago, Cpt_Bel_V said:

Answer the survey instead of create & forum post:

https://warthunder.com/en/news/8259-revising-the-economy-en

The "survey" has a really limited character number, you'd never fit all that in that

[Morvran_ 661]

2 hours ago, Klassischer_Durc said:

Premium Spam

Yep, totally agree here. I play sim, and EC9 is just dominated at the moment with people in Premium F4s, a jet that shouldnt be much higher than 11.0 at 11.3 trying to fight mig-29s and getting absolutely shreaded. and they are all there farming out top tier US jets. because its the only way they see of actually getting up the tree and unlocking anything.

Edited May 21, 2023 by Morvran_

[Cpt_Bel_V 4,790]

27 minutes ago, Morvran_ said:

The "survey" has a really limited character number, you'd never fit all that in that

well i made my own answer with 9 major points to change in the game (my PoV though)

Edited May 21, 2023 by Cpt_Bel_V

[GloBlue 94]

Il y a 2 minutes, Cpt_Bel_V a déclaré :

eh bien, j'ai fait ma propre réponse avec 9 points majeurs à changer dans le jeu (mon PoV cependant)

can you share,?

[Cpt_Bel_V 4,790]

21 minutes ago, GloBlue said:

can you share,?

well, i can't by now,... i made it yesterday and forgot to screenshot it.

but i can give a resume:
1- repaircost reduction by 20-30% - today you need to kill 3 vehicules in order to pay repaircost while loosing game--> wish to see it going to 2 vehicule kill (players)
2- reward(RP and SL) increase (up to 10%), and vary depending on vehicule types (Early Helicopter medium RP boost, only SL boost for aircrafts, Medium SL boost slight RP boost for tanks is what i've asked with %) 
3- BR re-adjustments by adding 2 BR steps, depending on vehicules

--> Tank between 6.7-7.0 and 7.3-7.7 to add more space and less powercreep at the end of WWII // Early coldwar
--> Aircraft between 9.3-9.7 and between 11.0-11.3 to add space in between those jets
4 and 5 - more Maps changes (mainly tanks)
6- new tutorials for newbies, and refurbished old tutorials with more hints of how to play instead of current close to no use information.
7- less main nation (US/Russia) powercreep at top tier in order to let minor nation keeping the pace without to wait 6+months.

8- having 1 update per 2 years without any new vehicules in it, only to make new features available on aircrafts which could have them but were introduced before the new mechanic appeared, with BR change if required + Massive bug corrections

9- if Gaijin do not know what to add to a Nation, or in doubt (aka F-16AJ or Mirage 2000-5 complete joke) ask community, even by doing it anonymously (creating a fake player account to do this, each time maybe) 

 

Edited May 21, 2023 by Cpt_Bel_V

[GloBlue 94]

Il y a 13 minutes, Cpt_Bel_V a déclaré :

eh bien, je ne peux pas maintenant,... je l'ai fait hier et j'ai oublié de faire une capture d'écran.

mais je peux donner un CV :
1- réduction des coûts de réparation de 20 à 30 % - aujourd'hui, vous devez tuer 3 véhicules afin de payer les coûts de réparation tout en perdant le jeu--> vous souhaitez le voir aller à 2 véhicules tuer (joueurs)
2- augmentation de la récompense (RP et SL) (jusqu'à 10 %), et varier en fonction des types de véhicules (augmentation moyenne RP moyenne de l'hélicoptère, seulement augmentation SL pour les avions, augmentation moyenne SL légère augmentation RP pour les chars est ce que j'ai demandé avec %)
3- Réajustements BR en ajoutant 2 étapes BR, en fonction des véhicules

--> Réservoir entre 6.7-7.0 et 7.3-7.7 pour ajouter plus d'espace et moins de powercreep à la fin de la Seconde Guerre mondiale // Début de la guerre froide
--> Aéronefs entre 9.3-9.7 et entre 11.0-11.3 pour ajouter de l'espace entre ces jets
4 et 5 - plus de changements de cartes (principalement des réservoirs)
6- de nouveaux tutoriels pour les débutants, et d'anciens tutoriels remis à neuf avec plus d'indices sur la façon de jouer au lieu d'informations actuelles presque inutiles.
7- moins de la nation principale (États-Unis/Russie) au niveau supérieur afin de permettre à la nation mineure de garder le rythme sans attendre plus de 6 mois.

8- ayant 1 mise à jour par 2 ans sans aucun nouveau véhicule, seulement pour rendre de nouvelles fonctionnalités disponibles sur les avions qui pourraient les avoir mais qui ont été introduites avant l'apparition du nouveau mécanicien, avec un changement de BR si nécessaire + des corrections de bogues massives

9- si Gaijin ne sait pas quoi ajouter à une nation, ou en cas de doute (alias F-16AJ ou Mirage 2000-5 blague complète), demandez à la communauté, même en le faisant de manière anonyme (créant un faux compte de joueur pour le faire, à chaque fois peut-être)

 

thx, I agree with most of your points

[Klassischer_Durc 8]

7 hours ago, Cpt_Bel_V said:

Answer the survey instead of create & forum post:

https://warthunder.com/en/news/8259-revising-the-economy-en

I will do that. But as I said, I wanted to share my thoughts with the community, even before the survey started. Its better to discuss the issues here, and something has to be done. The developers seem to be very far from their community, as review bombing isnt something thats happening without a reason. For me, its the result of bad communication, bad decisions made in the past and a habit of ignoring the active playerbase, that was criticizing the games problems for way too long, without anything happening. So the more players are sharing their thoughts on the game, the better the results will get hopefully.