Posted May 23, 2023 Here is a reply people have been waiting for! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... Cpt_Bel_V 4,790 Report post Posted May 21, 2023 (edited) Here is a link to answer the survey made by Gaijin: https://warthunder.com/en/news/8259-revising-the-economy-en Just remember : don't rant don't whine don't insult Edited May 21, 2023 by Cpt_Bel_V 3 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... Cpt_Bel_V 4,790 Report post Posted May 21, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, _J_ackal_ said: More like don't waste your time writting on something that will be 99,99% ignored. Players have been active on this forum which should serve the same purpose, but from what I've witnessed they sensor and ban what they don't like and completely ignore player feedback you're the perfect of exemple of not what to do,... the communitymade that SPAM on stream review to have impact, now we have a survey --> make it count,... if you do not, then don't ask for changes. Edited May 21, 2023 by Cpt_Bel_V 2 2 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... Jarms 1,558 Report post Posted May 21, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, _J_ackal_ said: ... Everyone should still do it. But just keep commenting elsewhere to make sure the message is heard. Edited May 21, 2023 by Pacifica Edited Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... ARK_BOI 810 Report post Posted May 21, 2023 2 minutes ago, _J_ackal_ said: 16 minutes ago, Cpt_Bel_V said: Ok, so you made one I presume. Come back to me if they change something major that is going to be positive. Which will never happen 11 minutes ago, Jarms said: Rome wasn’t build in a day they made mistake and they need to be fix ofc it not gonna help them in the next few updates but if getting better it will help only time will tell right now they need to learn and accept it and be better Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... anyuser 5,136 Report post Posted May 21, 2023 12 minutes ago, Jarms said: Everyone should still do it. But just keep commenting elsewhere to make sure the message is heard. I don't got any problem with the current ecco. But I can see where it comes from, when I'm getting those battles at BR 7 AB planes, where roughly 50% of the players are medicore to bad tankers (and even worse pilots). And for sure some people who bought some prem they are not ready for and that they can't support with a setup either. Is it a tanker and high tier plane, where I just want to dogfight, ignoring all other sources of SL, problem to some degree? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... Cpt_Bel_V 4,790 Report post Posted May 21, 2023 1 minute ago, ARK_BOI said: Rome wasn’t build in a day they made mistake and they need to be fix ofc it not gonna help them in the next few updates but if getting better it will help only time will tell right now they need to learn and accept it and be better well, no,... in some terms i can agree with jackal,... some survey like this one have been made in the past, which changed literally nothing apart from making the game harder Economically wise,... But, i mean it: if this Survey not come back with change in favor of players, then every player should boycott the game itself. 1 minute ago, anyuser said: I don't got any problem with the current ecco. But I can see where it comes from, when I'm getting those battles at BR 7 AB planes, where roughly 50% of the players are medicore to bad tankers (and even worse pilots). And for sure some people who bought some prem they are not ready for and that they can't support with a setup either. Is it a tanker and high tier plane, where I just want to dogfight, ignoring all other sources of SL, problem to some degree? just to be sure: do you use premium vehicules and accounts? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... GloBlue 94 Report post Posted May 21, 2023 I think we have to fill in this form, indeed, if they don't do anything after that, it will prove that they are laughing at us, if we don't fill in this form it will give them an opportunity to do nothing, but I will still continue to post on the forum. I don't give up Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... Annoxium 8 Report post Posted May 21, 2023 Having expressed my thoughts and feedback, I hold hope that the developers will take them into serious consideration. Genuine consideration and action on their part would demonstrate their commitment to listening to the player base and addressing their concerns. It is important to remain optimistic and trust that our voices will be heard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... ARK_BOI 810 Report post Posted May 21, 2023 9 minutes ago, GloBlue said: I think we have to fill in this form, indeed, if they don't do anything after that, it will prove that they are laughing at us, if we don't fill in this form it will give them an opportunity to do nothing, but I will still continue to post on the forum. I don't give up I do fill it too and hope thing will get better Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... 1 yr Pacifica changed the title to survey about the game Senior Forum Moderator Pacifica 15,971 Report post Posted May 21, 2023 This will remain Civilized... Thread cleaned up.... 1 1 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... cashmeowsidehbd 1,269 Report post Posted May 21, 2023 oh pacific! You're no fun. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... Senior Forum Moderator Pacifica 15,971 Report post Posted May 21, 2023 3 minutes ago, cashmeowsidehbd said: oh pacific! You're no fun. well, if you want others to see and fill out the survey ? they more than likely will not fill it out if they keep reading misinformation... then it is ruined for both sides...... OP said it well....... 10 hours ago, Cpt_Bel_V said: Here is a link to answer the survey made by Gaijin: https://warthunder.com/en/news/8259-revising-the-economy-en Just remember : don't rant don't whine don't insult 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... Cpt_Bel_V 4,790 Report post Posted May 21, 2023 (edited) 10 hours ago, Pacifica said: OP said it well....... For once i'm being praised Edit: thanks for pinning the thread. Edited May 22, 2023 by Cpt_Bel_V Pacifica (Posted May 21, 2023) Alright, pinned for a few days at least... and removed the notes now too Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... 1 yr Cpt_Bel_V changed the title to Survey about the game Falaxion 27 Report post Posted May 22, 2023 My reply to the survey: Quote The grind in the game has become too long, and it feels unfair that you have to play rank IV just to avoid losing SL in the long term. The economy really needs improvement. I also have an idea: similar to other games, you could create some exclusive "premium" areas. For instance, a dedicated EC mode that many players desire. Additionally, this "premium" feature could introduce a third currency earned through each battle, which could be used to spend (non-)free RP. This would make the "premium" subscription more valuable, perhaps as a monthly subscription like in other games. what do you guys think? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... WinstonWolfe 326 Report post Posted May 22, 2023 On top tier with premium acc, you will lose SL. Players should not be punished for playing a game and perform average. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... Netherdrake135 20 Report post Posted May 22, 2023 19 hours ago, Cpt_Bel_V said: well, no,... in some terms i can agree with jackal,... some survey like this one have been made in the past, which changed literally nothing apart from making the game harder Economically wise,... But, i mean it: if this Survey not come back with change in favor of players, then every player should boycott the game itself. just to be sure: do you use premium vehicules and accounts? Just because the changes that were made after a survey weren't to your liking doesn't mean the survey weren't adhered to. Maybe the survey's results showed that people disagrees with you? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... Cepeleon 96 Report post Posted May 22, 2023 I don't mind sharing my survey submission: Quote The main issue I think, is that the strategy being employed by Gaijin. Which appears to be "make the grind longer because that will retain players" is severely flawed. What retains players, if a fun experience....period. As new tech trees are introduced and more and more vehicles are added, the grind will naturally grow. There is no need to artificially alter this by lowering reward modifiers for SL/RP, and it seems especially underhanded to do so on premiums that have been purchased by your players. I am one of your "20%" and I do not put money into the game, for the grind. I put money in to support the game I enjoy and to obtain new content (not the copy and paste stuff either which I do not buy). In fact with all the negatives of moving up the tech tree, I have literally no interest in grinding past Rank V where repair costs literally haemorrhage SL and mods take far to long to obtain that it becomes monotonous (e.g. not fun). I have high tier premiums, I don't use them and I don't intend on buying any more. As a business if you want to increase profits you need to examine the premium time subscription and its value, at the moment I barely make enough SL using it to get up to rank V. That should not be the case, your subs are your recurring income, it should have far more value than it does. You could (and I know some players would not like this) lock certain parts of the game, unless you have a subscription. EvE Online does this and its been around longer than WT. They allow free to play for most of their tech tree, and then have Omega which locks out certain vehicles and abilities. You could introduce something similar, which makes it the players choice but don't screw it up by putting OP vehicles/abilities in it. The limit could be as simple as, you get access to all ranks and game modes but you only get access to the top 10% vehicles per rank on free to play. A subscription opens them all up and premium vehicles are not affected so they still retain a monetary value for sale. Anyway I have a lot more to say but this form is too small. Remember content = fun = retention and free players ARE content for other players, they are not pariahs leaching off your game so your "80%" is important. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... Cpt_Bel_V 4,790 Report post Posted May 22, 2023 2 hours ago, Netherdrake135 said: Just because the changes that were made after a survey weren't to your liking doesn't mean the survey weren't adhered to. Maybe the survey's results showed that people disagrees with you? I will not go back to a 4 year old survey, if you want to discuss those previous survey, you can create another thread. This thread is about the current survey, and to expand the link of the survey. Discussing of what you want about this survey is possible though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... WinstonWolfe 326 Report post Posted May 22, 2023 This poll is just a safety valve. Nothing will change. 3 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... Cpt_Bel_V 4,790 Report post Posted May 22, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, WinstonWolfe said: This poll is just a safety valve. Nothing will change. But if you did not participate in it, what is your legimity to complain about the game? It's like raging on a president, but you didn't vote (even blank) for your candidate. So do it or not,... but if you don't do it, don't bring it up next time something is wrong for you. Being a Karen on the forum is not going to make the game moves forward. Edited May 22, 2023 by Cpt_Bel_V 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... Mitchverr 875 Report post Posted May 22, 2023 Well I replied to the survey, I do hope its actually read and not just ignored out of hand. TL DR on my comment (IDK why they didnt let me write in paragraphs to make different points) SL on some vehicles went up when it shouldnt, EG Buccaneer went up to what, 21000? The Bucc which is actively viewed as a bit of a meme plane to fly and is actively punished for going into airspace. Going off that, to have SL cost come down so vehicles dont require you to get even 3-5 kills just to kind of break even, thats just insane, even with premium time. Next, to have more manual reviews, again example plane, the Bucc does not kill enough players to warrant a 21k SL cost when f16s cost half of that. These vehicles actively punish lower skill players for using them so only the extremely skilled will touch them. Lastly as a good will/good way to improve game mechanics and stuff, make premium vehicles default to 2 spawns, sure the backup system exists, but it would be more helpful for new players to be able to spawn a 2nd time into battles and would 1) increase peoples RP/SL a bit more and 2) reduce anger at 1 death leaving teams because they have no backup vehicles. I personally think the above is reasonable and not to be rude, I dont think gaijin does enough to stop outlier vehicles being screwed with repair cost, even when it gets brought up during discussion of BR/economy changes, theres some vehicles which every time gaijin attempt to make far worse with hikes and requires the community to point out its insane, those vehicles really shouldnt be showing up on the lists in the first place. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... tekwoj16626 8 Report post Posted May 22, 2023 (edited) Honestly, the way the survey is presented is kind of... half-assed. Single text input, no specific lead questions, the input that fights against user (No formatting, can't add an empty line for formatting, cursor jumps to the end if you try to insert text before a space in middle of text). Anyway, here's what I wrote in the survey: Quote I'll address the economy in context of the points in the article you have written "How progression and economy is built in F2P games and War Thunder in particular" - vehicles should be unlocked gradually, from simpler and older to more complex and later I agree, but then why do players who have never played a game can buy almost the top tier of vehicles? Why do I join br 10.3 matches with more than 50% of players on my team who are below level 60? It seems that Gaijin doesn't care about that rule themselves, and by ignoring it amplifies other issues. Low level players at high brs cause inflated statistics for players who reach this br through actual progression. This leads to further punishing of the latter by increasing br or repair costs of their vehicles. - the total time to get the first "top" vehicle should be a balanced (not too long not too short) number of game hours I agree, can we have transparency about this time according to the developers? What is the desired time with/without premium? What is the actual progression time? Personally I play with premium account since a year or so, sometimes with premium vehicles, and still I'm punished so bad when the team fails at top tier (look at previous point to see why it happens) that I have to wait for sales to actually be able to afford to buy and crew the vehicles I unlock. - The game has to earn money, otherwise it will be closed. And it must make money without a pay wall, so you can play indefinitely without paying anything (so there is no deception that the game is "free" when in fact it is not). Income should provide everyone the opportunity to play a multiplayer game with multiple modes and features Again, agreed. However everyone knows at some point it becomes near impossible to progress certain tech trees because of the prohibitive silver lion costs and balancing issues (70s jets without flares having to fight teams consisting of multiple A10/Su25 are an example). If you want all players to progress then why not remove repair costs entirely and balance the game only around rewards? - Progression and economy should, as far as possible, provide a variety of vehicles encountered in battle, otherwise it's just boring. I.e. there should not be too many "farming" vehicles, and especially if they are statistically stronger in battles (otherwise only the same popular vehicles will appear in battle). Yes, and right now tier 6 of air battles consists only of a handful of vehicles, because all others are too expensive to fly. I would love to fly my J29F but in current state it's just pointless, even with a premium account I need 3 kills in Air Realistic Battles to come even, and that's not something most players achieve easily at this br. So right now all we see at high tiers are the farming vehicles, aka premiums. Here are some ideas to improve variety: a) remove repair costs, b) give players X free repairs per day (or week) to use c) give all vehicles 1 free repair/day (or week) d) first battle of the day has no free repairs (can be across all nations or per nation) e) give least used vehicles 1 free repair/day (or week) f) give 1 random unlocked vehicle in tech tree premium modifiers for 1 battle (rotate daily) These are just examples but I believe it would help both variety as well as in some cases incentivize more respawns during a battle. - In a game with so many vehicles and modes it's impossible to manually adjust the in-game economy (it's important that it obeys specific rules, and manual changes to them would skew a vehicle’s effectiveness, making some vehicles "bad" and others much better than average, and thus affecting their occurrence in battles). Getting rid of repair costs would probably make balancing through rewards much easier tasks. There's also no transparency in regards to the vehicle statistics from Gaijin's side. Currently the playerbase assumes that vehicles are balanced around global average performance of players instead of average deviation in performance against performance of same player in other vehicles. I believe some transparency here could help reduce negative emotions of some players as well as allow some suggestions regarding solutions. Edited May 22, 2023 by tekwoj16626 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... ICrayonEatr@live 452 Report post Posted May 23, 2023 (edited) On 21/05/2023 at 03:53, Cpt_Bel_V said: Here is a link to answer the survey made by Gaijin: https://warthunder.com/en/news/8259-revising-the-economy-en Just remember : don't rant don't whine don't insult Thanks for linking this. I really wanted to share some of my ideas that could help. Even if Gaijin doesn’t consider my ideas or a lot of the ideas, hopefully they will learn from their past mistakes. I’m optimistic and hopeful that they will change but Gaijin is a wildcard so who knows. : “¯\_(ツ)_/¯“ Edited May 23, 2023 by ICrayonEatr@live Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... Psycho_Pyroman 0 Report post Posted May 23, 2023 Hi! I was really searching for something like this, i already reply it but i don't know if i was too late but i hope they hear us, at least decrease the repair costs... i really love this game, for years it was my favorite and i love it each update, but i tried to be the best polite possible in it. Please Gaijin, hear us Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... Loongsheep 5,339 Report post Posted May 23, 2023 There is tough grind, and then there is Warthunder. Over the last 2 years, I have played considerably less and stopped buying premium account, which I had on for years before that. Normal player could take 1 year just to grind out one top tier vehicle, and for me (a UK main), I have to unlock several 90% identical Challenger 2s first. If I don't lose SL like crazy every match, then I will play more and most likely spend more. But now it is enough for me. I only play occasional naval arcade with ships I already own. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options... Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 Share More sharing options... Followers 0
Cpt_Bel_V 4,790 Report post Posted May 21, 2023 (edited) Here is a link to answer the survey made by Gaijin: https://warthunder.com/en/news/8259-revising-the-economy-en Just remember : don't rant don't whine don't insult Edited May 21, 2023 by Cpt_Bel_V 3 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt_Bel_V 4,790 Report post Posted May 21, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, _J_ackal_ said: More like don't waste your time writting on something that will be 99,99% ignored. Players have been active on this forum which should serve the same purpose, but from what I've witnessed they sensor and ban what they don't like and completely ignore player feedback you're the perfect of exemple of not what to do,... the communitymade that SPAM on stream review to have impact, now we have a survey --> make it count,... if you do not, then don't ask for changes. Edited May 21, 2023 by Cpt_Bel_V 2 2 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarms 1,558 Report post Posted May 21, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, _J_ackal_ said: ... Everyone should still do it. But just keep commenting elsewhere to make sure the message is heard. Edited May 21, 2023 by Pacifica Edited Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARK_BOI 810 Report post Posted May 21, 2023 2 minutes ago, _J_ackal_ said: 16 minutes ago, Cpt_Bel_V said: Ok, so you made one I presume. Come back to me if they change something major that is going to be positive. Which will never happen 11 minutes ago, Jarms said: Rome wasn’t build in a day they made mistake and they need to be fix ofc it not gonna help them in the next few updates but if getting better it will help only time will tell right now they need to learn and accept it and be better Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anyuser 5,136 Report post Posted May 21, 2023 12 minutes ago, Jarms said: Everyone should still do it. But just keep commenting elsewhere to make sure the message is heard. I don't got any problem with the current ecco. But I can see where it comes from, when I'm getting those battles at BR 7 AB planes, where roughly 50% of the players are medicore to bad tankers (and even worse pilots). And for sure some people who bought some prem they are not ready for and that they can't support with a setup either. Is it a tanker and high tier plane, where I just want to dogfight, ignoring all other sources of SL, problem to some degree? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt_Bel_V 4,790 Report post Posted May 21, 2023 1 minute ago, ARK_BOI said: Rome wasn’t build in a day they made mistake and they need to be fix ofc it not gonna help them in the next few updates but if getting better it will help only time will tell right now they need to learn and accept it and be better well, no,... in some terms i can agree with jackal,... some survey like this one have been made in the past, which changed literally nothing apart from making the game harder Economically wise,... But, i mean it: if this Survey not come back with change in favor of players, then every player should boycott the game itself. 1 minute ago, anyuser said: I don't got any problem with the current ecco. But I can see where it comes from, when I'm getting those battles at BR 7 AB planes, where roughly 50% of the players are medicore to bad tankers (and even worse pilots). And for sure some people who bought some prem they are not ready for and that they can't support with a setup either. Is it a tanker and high tier plane, where I just want to dogfight, ignoring all other sources of SL, problem to some degree? just to be sure: do you use premium vehicules and accounts? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GloBlue 94 Report post Posted May 21, 2023 I think we have to fill in this form, indeed, if they don't do anything after that, it will prove that they are laughing at us, if we don't fill in this form it will give them an opportunity to do nothing, but I will still continue to post on the forum. I don't give up Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annoxium 8 Report post Posted May 21, 2023 Having expressed my thoughts and feedback, I hold hope that the developers will take them into serious consideration. Genuine consideration and action on their part would demonstrate their commitment to listening to the player base and addressing their concerns. It is important to remain optimistic and trust that our voices will be heard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARK_BOI 810 Report post Posted May 21, 2023 9 minutes ago, GloBlue said: I think we have to fill in this form, indeed, if they don't do anything after that, it will prove that they are laughing at us, if we don't fill in this form it will give them an opportunity to do nothing, but I will still continue to post on the forum. I don't give up I do fill it too and hope thing will get better Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Forum Moderator Pacifica 15,971 Report post Posted May 21, 2023 This will remain Civilized... Thread cleaned up.... 1 1 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashmeowsidehbd 1,269 Report post Posted May 21, 2023 oh pacific! You're no fun. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Forum Moderator Pacifica 15,971 Report post Posted May 21, 2023 3 minutes ago, cashmeowsidehbd said: oh pacific! You're no fun. well, if you want others to see and fill out the survey ? they more than likely will not fill it out if they keep reading misinformation... then it is ruined for both sides...... OP said it well....... 10 hours ago, Cpt_Bel_V said: Here is a link to answer the survey made by Gaijin: https://warthunder.com/en/news/8259-revising-the-economy-en Just remember : don't rant don't whine don't insult 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt_Bel_V 4,790 Report post Posted May 21, 2023 (edited) 10 hours ago, Pacifica said: OP said it well....... For once i'm being praised Edit: thanks for pinning the thread. Edited May 22, 2023 by Cpt_Bel_V Pacifica (Posted May 21, 2023) Alright, pinned for a few days at least... and removed the notes now too Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falaxion 27 Report post Posted May 22, 2023 My reply to the survey: Quote The grind in the game has become too long, and it feels unfair that you have to play rank IV just to avoid losing SL in the long term. The economy really needs improvement. I also have an idea: similar to other games, you could create some exclusive "premium" areas. For instance, a dedicated EC mode that many players desire. Additionally, this "premium" feature could introduce a third currency earned through each battle, which could be used to spend (non-)free RP. This would make the "premium" subscription more valuable, perhaps as a monthly subscription like in other games. what do you guys think? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinstonWolfe 326 Report post Posted May 22, 2023 On top tier with premium acc, you will lose SL. Players should not be punished for playing a game and perform average. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Netherdrake135 20 Report post Posted May 22, 2023 19 hours ago, Cpt_Bel_V said: well, no,... in some terms i can agree with jackal,... some survey like this one have been made in the past, which changed literally nothing apart from making the game harder Economically wise,... But, i mean it: if this Survey not come back with change in favor of players, then every player should boycott the game itself. just to be sure: do you use premium vehicules and accounts? Just because the changes that were made after a survey weren't to your liking doesn't mean the survey weren't adhered to. Maybe the survey's results showed that people disagrees with you? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cepeleon 96 Report post Posted May 22, 2023 I don't mind sharing my survey submission: Quote The main issue I think, is that the strategy being employed by Gaijin. Which appears to be "make the grind longer because that will retain players" is severely flawed. What retains players, if a fun experience....period. As new tech trees are introduced and more and more vehicles are added, the grind will naturally grow. There is no need to artificially alter this by lowering reward modifiers for SL/RP, and it seems especially underhanded to do so on premiums that have been purchased by your players. I am one of your "20%" and I do not put money into the game, for the grind. I put money in to support the game I enjoy and to obtain new content (not the copy and paste stuff either which I do not buy). In fact with all the negatives of moving up the tech tree, I have literally no interest in grinding past Rank V where repair costs literally haemorrhage SL and mods take far to long to obtain that it becomes monotonous (e.g. not fun). I have high tier premiums, I don't use them and I don't intend on buying any more. As a business if you want to increase profits you need to examine the premium time subscription and its value, at the moment I barely make enough SL using it to get up to rank V. That should not be the case, your subs are your recurring income, it should have far more value than it does. You could (and I know some players would not like this) lock certain parts of the game, unless you have a subscription. EvE Online does this and its been around longer than WT. They allow free to play for most of their tech tree, and then have Omega which locks out certain vehicles and abilities. You could introduce something similar, which makes it the players choice but don't screw it up by putting OP vehicles/abilities in it. The limit could be as simple as, you get access to all ranks and game modes but you only get access to the top 10% vehicles per rank on free to play. A subscription opens them all up and premium vehicles are not affected so they still retain a monetary value for sale. Anyway I have a lot more to say but this form is too small. Remember content = fun = retention and free players ARE content for other players, they are not pariahs leaching off your game so your "80%" is important. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt_Bel_V 4,790 Report post Posted May 22, 2023 2 hours ago, Netherdrake135 said: Just because the changes that were made after a survey weren't to your liking doesn't mean the survey weren't adhered to. Maybe the survey's results showed that people disagrees with you? I will not go back to a 4 year old survey, if you want to discuss those previous survey, you can create another thread. This thread is about the current survey, and to expand the link of the survey. Discussing of what you want about this survey is possible though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinstonWolfe 326 Report post Posted May 22, 2023 This poll is just a safety valve. Nothing will change. 3 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt_Bel_V 4,790 Report post Posted May 22, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, WinstonWolfe said: This poll is just a safety valve. Nothing will change. But if you did not participate in it, what is your legimity to complain about the game? It's like raging on a president, but you didn't vote (even blank) for your candidate. So do it or not,... but if you don't do it, don't bring it up next time something is wrong for you. Being a Karen on the forum is not going to make the game moves forward. Edited May 22, 2023 by Cpt_Bel_V 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchverr 875 Report post Posted May 22, 2023 Well I replied to the survey, I do hope its actually read and not just ignored out of hand. TL DR on my comment (IDK why they didnt let me write in paragraphs to make different points) SL on some vehicles went up when it shouldnt, EG Buccaneer went up to what, 21000? The Bucc which is actively viewed as a bit of a meme plane to fly and is actively punished for going into airspace. Going off that, to have SL cost come down so vehicles dont require you to get even 3-5 kills just to kind of break even, thats just insane, even with premium time. Next, to have more manual reviews, again example plane, the Bucc does not kill enough players to warrant a 21k SL cost when f16s cost half of that. These vehicles actively punish lower skill players for using them so only the extremely skilled will touch them. Lastly as a good will/good way to improve game mechanics and stuff, make premium vehicles default to 2 spawns, sure the backup system exists, but it would be more helpful for new players to be able to spawn a 2nd time into battles and would 1) increase peoples RP/SL a bit more and 2) reduce anger at 1 death leaving teams because they have no backup vehicles. I personally think the above is reasonable and not to be rude, I dont think gaijin does enough to stop outlier vehicles being screwed with repair cost, even when it gets brought up during discussion of BR/economy changes, theres some vehicles which every time gaijin attempt to make far worse with hikes and requires the community to point out its insane, those vehicles really shouldnt be showing up on the lists in the first place. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekwoj16626 8 Report post Posted May 22, 2023 (edited) Honestly, the way the survey is presented is kind of... half-assed. Single text input, no specific lead questions, the input that fights against user (No formatting, can't add an empty line for formatting, cursor jumps to the end if you try to insert text before a space in middle of text). Anyway, here's what I wrote in the survey: Quote I'll address the economy in context of the points in the article you have written "How progression and economy is built in F2P games and War Thunder in particular" - vehicles should be unlocked gradually, from simpler and older to more complex and later I agree, but then why do players who have never played a game can buy almost the top tier of vehicles? Why do I join br 10.3 matches with more than 50% of players on my team who are below level 60? It seems that Gaijin doesn't care about that rule themselves, and by ignoring it amplifies other issues. Low level players at high brs cause inflated statistics for players who reach this br through actual progression. This leads to further punishing of the latter by increasing br or repair costs of their vehicles. - the total time to get the first "top" vehicle should be a balanced (not too long not too short) number of game hours I agree, can we have transparency about this time according to the developers? What is the desired time with/without premium? What is the actual progression time? Personally I play with premium account since a year or so, sometimes with premium vehicles, and still I'm punished so bad when the team fails at top tier (look at previous point to see why it happens) that I have to wait for sales to actually be able to afford to buy and crew the vehicles I unlock. - The game has to earn money, otherwise it will be closed. And it must make money without a pay wall, so you can play indefinitely without paying anything (so there is no deception that the game is "free" when in fact it is not). Income should provide everyone the opportunity to play a multiplayer game with multiple modes and features Again, agreed. However everyone knows at some point it becomes near impossible to progress certain tech trees because of the prohibitive silver lion costs and balancing issues (70s jets without flares having to fight teams consisting of multiple A10/Su25 are an example). If you want all players to progress then why not remove repair costs entirely and balance the game only around rewards? - Progression and economy should, as far as possible, provide a variety of vehicles encountered in battle, otherwise it's just boring. I.e. there should not be too many "farming" vehicles, and especially if they are statistically stronger in battles (otherwise only the same popular vehicles will appear in battle). Yes, and right now tier 6 of air battles consists only of a handful of vehicles, because all others are too expensive to fly. I would love to fly my J29F but in current state it's just pointless, even with a premium account I need 3 kills in Air Realistic Battles to come even, and that's not something most players achieve easily at this br. So right now all we see at high tiers are the farming vehicles, aka premiums. Here are some ideas to improve variety: a) remove repair costs, b) give players X free repairs per day (or week) to use c) give all vehicles 1 free repair/day (or week) d) first battle of the day has no free repairs (can be across all nations or per nation) e) give least used vehicles 1 free repair/day (or week) f) give 1 random unlocked vehicle in tech tree premium modifiers for 1 battle (rotate daily) These are just examples but I believe it would help both variety as well as in some cases incentivize more respawns during a battle. - In a game with so many vehicles and modes it's impossible to manually adjust the in-game economy (it's important that it obeys specific rules, and manual changes to them would skew a vehicle’s effectiveness, making some vehicles "bad" and others much better than average, and thus affecting their occurrence in battles). Getting rid of repair costs would probably make balancing through rewards much easier tasks. There's also no transparency in regards to the vehicle statistics from Gaijin's side. Currently the playerbase assumes that vehicles are balanced around global average performance of players instead of average deviation in performance against performance of same player in other vehicles. I believe some transparency here could help reduce negative emotions of some players as well as allow some suggestions regarding solutions. Edited May 22, 2023 by tekwoj16626 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICrayonEatr@live 452 Report post Posted May 23, 2023 (edited) On 21/05/2023 at 03:53, Cpt_Bel_V said: Here is a link to answer the survey made by Gaijin: https://warthunder.com/en/news/8259-revising-the-economy-en Just remember : don't rant don't whine don't insult Thanks for linking this. I really wanted to share some of my ideas that could help. Even if Gaijin doesn’t consider my ideas or a lot of the ideas, hopefully they will learn from their past mistakes. I’m optimistic and hopeful that they will change but Gaijin is a wildcard so who knows. : “¯\_(ツ)_/¯“ Edited May 23, 2023 by ICrayonEatr@live Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycho_Pyroman 0 Report post Posted May 23, 2023 Hi! I was really searching for something like this, i already reply it but i don't know if i was too late but i hope they hear us, at least decrease the repair costs... i really love this game, for years it was my favorite and i love it each update, but i tried to be the best polite possible in it. Please Gaijin, hear us Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loongsheep 5,339 Report post Posted May 23, 2023 There is tough grind, and then there is Warthunder. Over the last 2 years, I have played considerably less and stopped buying premium account, which I had on for years before that. Normal player could take 1 year just to grind out one top tier vehicle, and for me (a UK main), I have to unlock several 90% identical Challenger 2s first. If I don't lose SL like crazy every match, then I will play more and most likely spend more. But now it is enough for me. I only play occasional naval arcade with ships I already own. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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