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Gaijin F2P & Paying players


DISRUPT
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I think we all agree that Gaijin needs to make money to keep the game alive and growing and completely support that. The problem is how they intend to do that. The 80% number in the dev post I assume was out of ALL players who have ever played WT. Most get discouraged because of the terrible economy before they even have the chance to get hooked and invest both time and real $$$ into the game. I have had premium account for almost 3 years out of 8 and if Gaijin both fixed the economy and incentivised new players with better rewards and help progressing through tech trees early on they wouldn’t leave the game forever spending nothing. If for the first year of playing you could earn weekly rewards for consecutive days playing like GE, premium time and or lower tiered premium vehicles that would certainly help. Fix the broken economy and give new players a reason to stay and invest in the game and later down the line they will be paying players. The current method of squeezing the whales for money is net negative and will drive more current players away along with future paying players. The elephant in the room is that ALOT of people get discouraged and quit before they can become invested enough to spend money..

 

Any other ideas on how Gaijin can be profitable and grow while fixing the economy and retaining new players?


 

Edited by DISRUPT
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12 minutes ago, DISRUPT said:

I think we all agree that Gaijin needs to make money to keep the game alive and growing and completely support that. The problem is how they intend to do that. The 80% number in the dev post I assume was out of ALL players who have ever played WT. Most get discouraged because of the terrible economy before they even have the chance to get hooked and invest both time and real $$$ into the game. I have had premium account for almost 3 years out of 8 and if Gaijin both fixed the economy and incentivised new players with better rewards and help progressing through tech trees early on they wouldn’t leave the game forever spending nothing. If for the first year of playing you could earn weekly rewards for consecutive days playing like GE, premium time and or lower tiered premium vehicles that would certainly help. Fix the broken economy and give new players a reason to stay and invest in the game and later down the line they will be paying players. The current method of squeezing the whales for money is net negative and will drive more current players away along with future paying players. The elephant in the room is that ALOT of people get discouraged and quit before they can become invested enough to spend money..

 

Any other ideas on how Gaijin can be profitable and grow while fixing the economy and retaining new players?

Player satisfaction serves as the cornerstone of a sustainable and profitable free-to-play game, and unfortunately, recent changes to the economy have caused it to plummet significantly. The current state of the economy is in complete disarray, resulting in new players, as well as existing ones, fleeing from the game. This detrimental impact on players raises questions as to why such changes are persistently being implemented, despite the evident harm they inflict upon War Thunder. It is crucial to recognize that forcing struggling new players into financial ruin lacks rationale from a business standpoint and only works to undermine the game's success.

 

Achieving fair and balanced matchmaking is an essential aspect of ensuring player satisfaction. Gaijin should place a strong emphasis on continually refining their matchmaking algorithms and promptly addressing any significant balance issues that arise. By actively improving the matchmaking process, Gaijin can cultivate a more enjoyable and engaging experience for all players. This commitment to fairness and balance will undoubtedly contribute to increased player retention and, in turn, create additional revenue opportunities.

 

There exist numerous positive financial opportunities that can be capitalized upon instead. It is counterproductive to force new players, as well as existing ones, into financial ruin simply because they may not perform exceptionally well or have a few challenging games. This approach not only undermines player satisfaction but also fails to tap into the potential revenue streams that can be achieved through more player-friendly strategies. It is clear that there are alternative paths to profitability that do not involve pushing players into bankruptcy and should be explored instead.

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1 hour ago, DISRUPT said:

The way I read this was Gaijins goal isn’t to find a way to retain new players and convert them into paying players. It is to squeeze the already paying players for every penny.

 

I Iike your OP, but i ran out of votes today.

 

Regarding f2p - there is no free lunch.

 

Gaijin decided to go the f2p way to get easier into the large market of micro transactions of children/minors and they assumed that they simply make more money with f2p than offering a full price game and half price updates.

 

1 hour ago, DISRUPT said:

Any other ideas on how Gaijin can be profitable and grow while fixing the economy and retaining new players?

 

Ihmo the responsibility for ideas lies within gaijin. I do not see a "can be profitable", i see a "listen to customers and act accordingly" situation.

 

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15 minutes ago, Hoefrik said:

Dont you like the : Season pass ? The look crates ? The Premium account ? The 10-70$ Premium vehicles ? The Gaijin market ? The Crew slots for GE ? The paid decals for GE? Broke ? SL for GE

 

What more monetizable options do we need ?

 

even something as fringe as forum profile picture has been butchered and turned into monetizable cashgrab scheme

 

we can only guess what will come next ... paying GE for posting on forum?

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5 minutes ago, gozer said:

 

even something as fringe as forum profile picture has been butchered and turned into monetizable cashgrab scheme

 

we can only guess what will come next ... paying GE for posting on forum?

instant vehicle repair locked behind premium account, you have to wait the free repair time and pay repair cost too otherwise, just like in those late 2000's browser online games

Edited by LD_FR
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2 hours ago, DISRUPT said:

 

 

Any other ideas on how Gaijin can be profitable and grow while fixing the economy and retaining new players?

 

 

Stop spreading misinformation !

 

26.000.000  $$$ 

 

26,000,000 is a lot for 200 employees . Most companies in Germany with 200 employees can only dream of such sales!

 

https://rocketreach.co/gaijin-entertainment-profile_b5c73de9f42e0d39#:~:text=The Gaijin Entertainment annual revenue was %2426 million in 2021.

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3 minutes ago, Untergangsmelder said:

 

Stop spreading misinformation !

 

26.000.000  $$$ 

 

26,000,000 is a lot for 200 employees . Most companies in Germany with 200 employees can only dream of such sales!

 

https://rocketreach.co/gaijin-entertainment-profile_b5c73de9f42e0d39#:~:text=The Gaijin Entertainment annual revenue was %2426 million in 2021.

 

You seem to forget the 500+ outsourced Artists and Model makers tho....

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7 minutes ago, Pacifica said:

 

You seem to forget the 500+ outsourced Artists and Model makers tho....

damn, even with that many people on the payrole, still took them more than half a decade to figure out you should probably be able to help your teammates extinguish fires.

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Even if the game's economy were better, the large number of vehicles and the ten nations present would still force you to play a lot even with premium, even if you were to research only one complete nation.

 

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9 minutes ago, mc205v said:

Even if the game's economy were better, the large number of vehicles and the ten nations present would still force you to play a lot even with premium, even if you were to research only one complete nation.

 

Playing as freemium 10 years out of 11 past in the game, reached up many high tiers several nations, up to top tier in 3 out of 9 nations in game (yes there is only 9 nations in game by now).

 

The problem is that the game health/economy always been nerfed since 2013, in several occasions,

 

but i can say with certainty: you don't need premium to play the game.

Edited by Cpt_Bel_V
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35 minutes ago, Pacifica said:

You seem to forget the 500+ outsourced Artists and Model makers tho....

 

that number is meaningless without at least some data about how much they actually contributed to the game & how much did that contribution actually cost

 

it's the same thing as 70 million players ... nice number to brag about in P.R. materials, but doesn't say anything about active players, how many of those actually played the game for some time or how many of those are bot accounts

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12 minutes ago, Cpt_Bel_V said:

Playing as freemium 10 years out of 11 past in the game, reached up many high tiers several nations, up to top tier in 3 out of 9 nations in game (yes there is only 9 nations in game by now).

 

The problem is that the game health/economy always been nerfed since 2013, in several occasions,

 

but i can say with certainty: you don't need premium to play the game.

I was referring to new players, who basically have an "everest to climb".

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1 hour ago, Hoefrik said:

Dont you like the : Season pass ? The look crates ? The Premium account ? The 10-70$ Premium vehicles ? The Gaijin market ? The Crew slots for GE ? The paid decals for GE? Broke ? SL for GE

 

What more monetizable options do we need ?

You forgot earlier access to the camouflage unlocks, decoration like p2w bushes, skipping crew exp and acing them straight away, Making a squadron did cost ge didnt it? Converting gathered research to vehicles and modules. There is literaly so much monetization in the game and i might have missed some myself as well

22 minutes ago, mc205v said:

Even if the game's economy were better, the large number of vehicles and the ten nations present would still force you to play a lot even with premium, even if you were to research only one complete nation.

 

well that is the goal of this whole thing, so that people are able to research multiple things in their lifetime

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1. Keep the game balanced in terms of one well known nation stomping

2. on lower tiers earning money is not that big of a deal but could be to the max 10% higher

3. on high tiers money is the problem but it could be buffed slightly or lowering the repair costst to a max of 4k per vehicle

4. xp... OH MY GOD that thing is a nightmare even if you have a premium account grinding a top tier 400k xp is just absurd... like come on one nation now imagine if people wan't more... another year worth of grind?

5.MAKE THE DEVS ACTUALLY LISTEN TO THE COMMUNITY INSTEAD OF  TELLING US WHAT WE THINK

6. https://www.gamesindustry.biz/gaijin-entertainment-were-not-the-greedy-xxxxxxxx-here  this... those are the words of the CEO of Gaijin 

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2 hours ago, Untergangsmelder said:

 

Stop spreading misinformation !

 

26.000.000  $$$ 

 

26,000,000 is a lot for 200 employees . Most companies in Germany with 200 employees can only dream of such sales!

 

https://rocketreach.co/gaijin-entertainment-profile_b5c73de9f42e0d39#:~:text=The Gaijin Entertainment annual revenue was %2426 million in 2021.

The amount of money they make should be irrelevant. They own a business. The goal of which is to make money. The problem is how they are doing it. Income should be from making the game better thus getting more new players to invest in the game over time. If they are only managing a 20% conversion rate into paying customers they need to fix the problem of why 80% give up on the game or don’t invest in a game they play for years instead of trying to bleed the existing 20%.


This game isn’t a charity and needs to be profitable, but I asked the question because there should be a discussion on how it can be profitable without exploiting the players.

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To put what im going to say into perspective: I'm a firm believer that the main goal of a game should not be to reach the highest tiers, but the fun you are having each game no matter tier.

 

And i believe WT mostly manages this ok. Me and my friends mainly play Tank RB around tier 2-3, sometimes low 1 or high 4 as well, as we find these ranges to be the most fun.

 

With that said, as i don't feel any need to actively push myself much further down the tech-tree, the grind does not affects me to any greater extent. And the shortcomings of the economy, while it could certainly use some improvements, is also mitigated by that fact that we only really play what tiers entertains and sustains us.

 

The system is, after all, made to increase its pressure the higher you got to ensure you first pay for premium account then start spending money on premium vehicles and GE.

 

But there are other mechanical problems that new players face earlier and has chased a few of my friends away. To mention them quickly:

 

MMR and the overall vehicle BR of both premium and standard vehicles, is something that could use another look. While some people are very touchy about increased cue times, me and most people i play with regularly would be fine with longer wait times if it means better balanced matches.

 

Planes need another rebalance in ground battles. Combined battles is a nice idea. But people don't bring planes because they are an equal tool, but a better one, and it shows. Do something like: Reduce the max bomb size for bombers and remove them completely from all other planes (make precision attacks very important when flying), Bring back the AA lead indicators in RB (They should have an advantage against their intended target, not be the preferred targets). Disable firing/bombing once a plane is on a death timer (As this would make kamikaze runs less effective, less people would do them).

 

Having a new guy getting bombed and strafed by planes, then telling him that AAs are not really that effective (often prime strafing targets) and that he should have brought a plane instead, is not going to give the best impression of game balance.

 

Bushes is another interesting topic. Try explaining to a new (or old) player how something that visually hides you and is only obtainable via GE or heavy grind (or combination of both) and only available after reaching tier 3 but usable in tier 1 is not an unfair advantage. Or discuss with someone using bushes that they should be toggle-able like all other decorations.

 

A small one, but one i personally don't like, is Crew skills. A badly laid-out SL dump that could at the very least get an overhaul to streamline the different options. Or potentially be removed as it serves little purpose other than furthering the gap between new and old players. Your experience, and potentially aced vehicle, should be enough advantage in an engagement.

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1 hour ago, NAFO_BLACKOPS_PL said:

6. https://www.gamesindustry.biz/gaijin-entertainment-were-not-the-greedy-xxxxxxxx-here  this... those are the words of the CEO of Gaijin 

 

I must say it was pretty cynical for Gaijin CEO to make that statement exactly at the time when they were switching the progression from the old "20 levels needed and you get everything" to the new economy that we are still using now.

 

To translate it into the only thing Gaijin understands, money & buying progression, in the old economy the 20 levels could be bought (if one also had enough free XP to convert) for 19k GE, roughly 100USD, to unlock entire tech tree and all vehicles in it, including new ones added during updates. That was changed into vehicle based progression, meaning into something roughly 30x more expensive at the moment of introduction & got much, much, much worse as time went on.

 

We're not greedy, but at this very moment we're coincidentally switching the economy into several times greedier model, pay no attention to that ... :lol2:

Edited by gozer
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I'd get a premium account for ever day of the year if it guarantees no nett SL losses after a match. Both sim and RB. Not "if you do this and don't do that you'll at least break even", no. Breakeven must be guaranteed if you're paying. Not even talking premium aircraft, just premium accounts so you don't once off pay but rather continue to pay to use this. Any nett loss should be cancelled after a match.

Edited by El Bananito@live
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7 hours ago, DISRUPT said:

The 80% number in the dev post I assume was out of ALL players who have ever played WT.

Well, market average is single digit pay rate, so Gaijin is already doing one order of magnitude better than average, just saying.

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The worst thing is that I can't play! I mean, I have premium, but if I feel like jumping back to England 7.0, I have to think about it if I play badly I might come out minus! I think it's absurd that the game penalizes me with the cost of repairs! That's why I don't play top tier ground mode, I don't feel like spawning another tank to come out minus! We definitely need to eliminate the negative SL result at the end of matches!

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