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Gaijin F2P & Paying players


DISRUPT
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2 hours ago, DISRUPT said:

The amount of money they make should be irrelevant. They own a business. The goal of which is to make money. The problem is how they are doing it. Income should be from making the game better thus getting more new players to invest in the game over time. If they are only managing a 20% conversion rate into paying customers they need to fix the problem of why 80% give up on the game or don’t invest in a game they play for years instead of trying to bleed the existing 20%.


This game isn’t a charity and needs to be profitable, but I asked the question because there should be a discussion on how it can be profitable without exploiting the players.

 

And the Key word is "business"... which also includes Servers, hardware, software, R&D, other technology and about a million other "business" things to take into consideration 

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On 22/05/2023 at 04:57, DISRUPT said:

I think we all agree that Gaijin needs to make money to keep the game alive and growing and completely support that. The problem is how they intend to do that. The 80% number in the dev post I assume was out of ALL players who have ever played WT. Most get discouraged because of the terrible economy before they even have the chance to get hooked and invest both time and real $$$ into the game. I have had premium account for almost 3 years out of 8 and if Gaijin both fixed the economy and incentivised new players with better rewards and help progressing through tech trees early on they wouldn’t leave the game forever spending nothing. If for the first year of playing you could earn weekly rewards for consecutive days playing like GE, premium time and or lower tiered premium vehicles that would certainly help. Fix the broken economy and give new players a reason to stay and invest in the game and later down the line they will be paying players. The current method of squeezing the whales for money is net negative and will drive more current players away along with future paying players. The elephant in the room is that ALOT of people get discouraged and quit before they can become invested enough to spend money..

 

Any other ideas on how Gaijin can be profitable and grow while fixing the economy and retaining new players?

 

- Remove soft cap from match earnings.

- Better match earnings in general. I’d be happy with 10% extra SL/RP on wins, 5% extra SL/RP on loses.

- I want less repair costs. At least a 15% cut across the board. As well as a maximum cap vehicles of each tier cannot go over.

- I want less crew training costs (when crewing a new vehicle), At least a 15% cut across the board. As above with a maximum cap each tier cannot go over.

- Stop reducing premium vehicle reward modifiers. 

- Less vehicle RP required for research. At least a 15% cut across the board.

- Less modification RP required for research. At least 15% across the board.

- Less ace crew RP required to unlock. At least 15% across the board for tech tree. 30% less across the board for premiums.

- More crew RP per match. At least 15% across the board.

- Allow Covertable RP to be used with SL. Even if the conversion rate is far worse than GE. 

- Bring back golden eagle wagers. 

 

Purely from an economy standpoint that would make me happy. I think 15% is decent enough without being too unrealistic.

Edited by Jarms
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I think I'm right if I say that what the vast majority of players expect is the following.

 

If you are free to play: Make the game fun = BR decompression and low repair costs.

 

If you pay for premium vehicles and premium account: Progress much faster = reduced research points and increased bonuses from premium vehicles.

 

We are players not slaves and I think that the purpose of a game is for people to have fun but not get frustrated because we already have enough with the bad performance of some servers and the toxicity of certain characters.

 

 

Edited by Daniyyel1943

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10 hours ago, Untergangsmelder said:

 

Stop spreading misinformation !

 

26.000.000  $$$ 

 

26,000,000 is a lot for 200 employees . Most companies in Germany with 200 employees can only dream of such sales!

 

https://rocketreach.co/gaijin-entertainment-profile_b5c73de9f42e0d39#:~:text=The Gaijin Entertainment annual revenue was %2426 million in 2021.

No it's not, it translates to 130k per employee in revenue. That is not profit, just revenue. 

Since you seem to be German, take a look at Weidmüller, a classic German KMU. 960M revenue and ~6500 employees, that is ~150k per employee. 

To be profitable in a manufacturing business you need ~100k per employee in revenue...at least in Germany. 

 

So that is one point.

 

The more important point though, it's completely irrelevant how much money Gaijin makes. In fact, the more they make the more motivated they are to improve the game and grow it further. 

 

The critical point is how they balance the in-game economy and RL revenue generation. 

 

If Gaijin changes the premium account model to a version where the SL and RP modifiers allow for a faster progress and the Repair cost are cut in half, then that's an incentive to subscribe to a premium account and that generates a constant income. The premium vehicles would be on top of that. 

 

If Gaijin decides to slash repair costs alltogether then they would just need to play with the modifiers for premium accounts and F2P accounts and we would see a lot less ODL in matches. 

 

I think there are plenty of options for Gaijin to improve on the current economy without hurting their revenue stream. 

 

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The first 3-4 years WT was fun to play and i spend real money on premium vehicles (for the fun having them) and premium account (for research and SL boost). After that came the events, the marketplace and all gone wrong. Game became frustrating, hunting for events 7/7, more and more experimental vehicles, hybrid tech trees... And paradoxically since i haven't spend a single penny in the game, playing all time with premium account and getting vehicles worth thousand GJN. At the end me frustrated and Gaijin with no money.  

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5 hours ago, Pacifica said:

 

And the Key word is "business"... which also includes Servers, hardware, software, R&D, other technology and about a million other "business" things to take into consideration 

I mean, if gaijin is in bad financial shape, I don't think things like the pewdiepie sponsorship were the smartest of investments, unless gaijin unironically thinks that "kids that buy a premium for 60€ and then lose interest almost immediately" is a solid base for a money making venture.

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16 hours ago, Pacifica said:

 

You seem to forget the 500+ outsourced Artists and Model makers tho....

Too bad none of the 500+ artist and model makers nor the 200+ employees nor all the profits could make anyone bother to make a correct cockpit for a 70$ product.The J-7D has a cockpit with cyrilic alphabet and russian words in a 100% built and flown only by China aircraft.Before you ask,I already opened a ticket https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/n8MM7RhqCKK1 . That was near 6 months ago,some people flagged the issue because its self evident.You think anyone bothered to check on it ? No.But thats not all a user made a ticket about the mirror of the J-7D 2 months ago and it got aknwoledged instantly while having 0 people reporting the same issue https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/ZpDfvtZcaIsN  .Coincidence that a major flaw of the product is crassly overlooked while minor,non important stuff imediately gets aknowledged by gaijin staff ? I think not,one would imply work,the other a quick fix .And Gaijin has the guts to say that feedback is listened.

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11 hours ago, Pacifica said:

 

And the Key word is "business"... which also includes Servers, hardware, software, R&D, other technology and about a million other "business" things to take into consideration 

As a buisness owner I know how it works and how expensive you can get but challenging your clients will make them quit and you have been doing it for a long time..

 

You have chosen to make quick buck  but instead of the better and most efficent option of earning less buck but for a long time (indefinetly)...

 

add to that obvious biasing of a nation which allso cringes most of the playerbase and you guys just stomped into a big pile of something and the server costs won't matter ..cross the line even further and in a free world  all your clients will go somewhere else.. 

 

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10 hours ago, cortbowan@psn said:

No it's not, it translates to 130k per employee in revenue. That is not profit, just revenue. 

Since you seem to be German, take a look at Weidmüller, a classic German KMU. 960M revenue and ~6500 employees, that is ~150k per employee. 

To be profitable in a manufacturing business you need ~100k per employee in revenue...at least in Germany. 

 

So that is one point.

 

Puh, that's a very bold argumentation bro.

 

Imho you can't even think about comparing a company developing software (wt is just VR) with a company producing "real" goods. Every IT developer has mainly staff costs, so if you want to draw conclusions you should use a comparable business segment. I mean we have no detailed insight in the annual report due to the location of the company and their legal construct; maybe there is a legal obligation in Hungary to publish their financial data via a public register like in the UK, US or other countries, maybe not. Speculations are useless without reliable data. 

 

In addition gaijin has imho not a financial crisis, they have currently a reputation crisis that will lead to a financial crisis in the short to mid-term view. As the reasons for their issues were home made, they should be able to solve their issues with smart crisis management.

 

10 hours ago, cortbowan@psn said:

I think there are plenty of options for Gaijin to improve on the current economy without hurting their revenue stream. 

 

I like your pov and your ideas in general, but the economy issue is just the most prominent of a hell of problems within war thunder. And a lot of very smart, experienced and highly passionate players have provided hundreds of proposals in the last years.

 

It is simply their ongoing feedback resistance which brought them to this point.

 

Offering services or goods - or here a video game with outstanding possibilities - and being more or less without real competition is highly dangerous. If you then come from a country which a lot of people/institutions/media have issues with, you should act extremely careful - especially if you do business in a highly regulated segment like micro transactions with children. If you then see customer feedback not really as useful and decide to ignore it, we end up right here....

 

 

4 hours ago, MDC5000 said:

Coincidence that a major flaw of the product is crassly overlooked while minor,non important stuff imediately gets aknowledged by gaijin staff ? I think not,one would imply work,the other a quick fix .And Gaijin has the guts to say that feedback is listened.

 

I think you hit an important point here. 

 

The main issue is communication. Tbh i have zero clue why gaijin relies regarding bug reports on players, not on own staff. If one of your customers has an issue, you should be thankful for a chance to correct your product to satisfy your customer, prevent similar disappointments for other customers based on your own ambitions to provide a flawless product. If you transfer this important feedback opportunity to players doing this in their free time you won't have either an unbiased assessment of your issue or an acceptable response time just by design. 

 

Based on real life - if you spend 20 to 50 $/€ in a flawed product only people with time or passion will contact the provider, the majority says Xxxx this, throws it away and buy something else. 

 

This whole bug reporting thing is as mysterious as women, sometimes they react surprisingly positive and fast, in other occasions you get simply ignored. They fixed issues which bothered me for years quite fast (2-3 months) after i finally decided to create a bug report. And other things with major flaws (teamkilling fee if you get rammed, no active player left, useless 57mm HE rounds, etc...) just remain open...

 

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Been F2P since 2014 and  up until a couple of years ago when my friend bought me premium time.
My 2 cents.
F2P is perfectly playable, premium vehicles are available for war bonds and it doesn't affect performance in events. Only matchmaking quality.

 

Premium sub however is clearly the normal progression rate for the game and should be the baseline while sub gives you extra. I think this itself would address teh current complaints and the mythical "grind" ppl that are bad at the game keep spamming about.

Only 2 places where neither apply is ships where aside from early PTs the RP rate, ratings and  repairs are out of this world bad and premium won't do jack for u there,

The other is the 2 required modules on ground they have required a rework in RP cost for a long time now or just a general rework like getting 1 FPE and/or  having repairs to start with but much slower ones.

 

Instead of acting like a typical irrational lynch mob you should give constructive feedback to gajin and ignore the clickbait gaslighter CC's that don't know jack about the game and its economy as they are not a part of it due to their statuses or are just spreading misinformation to drive up clicks.

 

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12 minutes ago, Neobushido said:

Been F2P since 2014 and  up until a couple of years ago when my friend bought me premium time.
My 2 cents.
F2P is perfectly playable, premium vehicles are available for war bonds and it doesn't affect performance in events. Only matchmaking quality.

 

Premium sub however is clearly the normal progression rate for the game and should be the baseline while sub gives you extra. I think this itself would address teh current complaints and the mythical "grind" ppl that are bad at the game keep spamming about.

Only 2 places where neither apply is ships where aside from early PTs the RP rate, ratings and  repairs are out of this world bad and premium won't do jack for u there,

The other is the 2 required modules on ground they have required a rework in RP cost for a long time now or just a general rework like getting 1 FPE and/or  having repairs to start with but much slower ones.

 

Instead of acting like a typical irrational lynch mob you should give constructive feedback to gajin and ignore the clickbait gaslighter CC's that don't know jack about the game and its economy as they are not a part of it due to their statuses or are just spreading misinformation to drive up clicks.

 

 

Where is your jet fighter after 8671 battles hmm? I don't see one. No doubt I bet you weren't trying to get one, or maybe you don't care for post ww2 aircraft but I would have thought for your 8671 battles you would have deserved one anyway. I would call your lack of jet propulsion a disservice to your veterancy, surely an economy that worked would not allow for such an injustice... :D

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"80 % never spent a dime...."

 

A number they threw in the room, that has absolutely 0 meaning without the context behind it.

 

80% of ALL Players that have ever played the game, so of the 70,000,000 players that are registered? So ~14,000,000 players bought something?

80% of the concurrent players? So  ~ 30,000 players bought something?

 

This number means nothing without context.

 

Just from my judgement, seeing premium tanks, planes, helicopters and ships in literally every game I play, even entire lobbies full of only premium vehicles at times depending on the BR. 

I'd say this number is calculated highly beneficially for gaijin and biased towards their current argument.

Edited by MantarochenMax
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If is pay wall, game is no longer f2p.

 

How to buy something when after a good number of vehicles sold, their nerfing follows. A man who has been treated like this once, twice or more will eventually say enough and will not buy anything anymore.

Edited by WinstonWolfe
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