Bomber problems!

[Chalon 0]

Got mission for destroying 20 bases. It was absolutelly nightmare.

 

I was flying Me 264. Its big bomber with big bomb load but guess what, It can destroy just 1 base, what a joke.

 

Now some big problems that drive me up.

1. Controls... you cant control plane while in gunner view. That mean that if you try to defend yourself and u are aiming in gunner view, enemy plane goes to blind spot of gunners, you cant effectively stear plane by WSAD cause when you let the button, plane goes automatically back to circle possition (I have autopilot turned off).

2. When gunners turret loses angle, turret goes to original position - you are aiming in gunner view and your turrets are not prepared in dirrection where you aiming if they have no angle.

3. MM - a lot of battles was 4 bombers on our side and 2 fighters vs full squad of fighters. Our fighters without chance.

4. With Me 264 ridiculously low income. About 2k SL for destroying base, 1,5k SL for destroying enemy aircraft! WTF?

 

 

[The_Real_Shogun 66]

1. Allways turn away from aproaching fighters.

2. Learn to fly with WASD and adjust your aim at the same time.

3. Allways climb - dont dive.

4. Consider RB - more so if you dont climb.

 

Me 264 works fine by/with me. Practice more.

 

5. You dont have to destroy the bases by yourself - it just has to be damaged by you while someone else kills it.

 

Edited June 4, 2023 by The_Real_Shogun

[Thodin 6,784]

2 hours ago, Chalon said:

Got mission for destroying 20 bases. It was absolutelly nightmare.

 

Hi there, its just saying 20 bases. Not that you have to use a bomber. I do this task preferrably with 10.7 F-4 Phantom. Unlike higher BRed jets, its unlikely you get intercepted before you at least drop on one base. This thing has a massive bomb loadout (use 750 lb ones).

 

If jets aren't your thing use a medium bomber like a 4.7 Do-217. You can dive down with far over 700km/h and thus you might easily get your base destroyed and to mark a second one.

[x_Shini_ 434]

I would argue as well that the Me264 is a poor choice considering you will regulary get sucked into the matches of ju288cs and get outclassed

[Thodin 6,784]

4 minutes ago, x_Shini_ said:

I would argue as well that the Me264 is a poor choice considering you will regulary get sucked into the matches of ju288cs and get outclassed

 

Jep. Also Ju-288 is a bad choice, since you end up in a team full of other Ju-288 and you might get no base for you if they dive/fly faster than you. Also 288 has this low dive speed with wing rip around 650 km/h.

 

For oneway basebombing better use a jet (Phantom, Mig-23BN, IL-28) or Do-217.

Edited June 4, 2023 by Thodin

[anyuser 5,136]

3 hours ago, Chalon said:

plane goes automatically back to circle possition (I have autopilot turned off).

When you stop using the control keys to overwrite the instructor, who tries to point the nose of your plane the direction your mouse say "go there", he starts to do so again.

It does not go into a slight climb neutral position but the heading you said, even if that would be straight for the sun.

You want it in a different way, switch to mouse joystick.

 

3 hours ago, Chalon said:

MM - a lot of battles was 4 bombers on our side and 2 fighters vs full squad of fighters. Our fighters without chance.

MM got 2 restrictions.

First is max 4 Bombers for each team.

Second is same team sizes.

 

When there are many bombers queing on your side, but not on the side of the possible enemies - guess what will happen...

MM can only work with the player pool it got. And now you can blame all the people who want to play their money maker bomber at the same BR and at the same nation you want to do that - oh.

[Threashold 224]

Side climb! SIDE CLIMB! Bombers are never meant to have an contact with fighters. ! Side climb slide climb! I always dose that..

[Real K Soze@live 407]

9 minutes ago, anyuser said:

MM got 2 restrictions.

First is max 4 Bombers for each team.

Second is same team sizes.

 

When there are many bombers queing on your side, but not on the side of the possible enemies - guess what will happen...

MM can only work with the player pool it got. And now you can blame all the people who want to play their money maker bomber at the same BR and at the same nation you want to do that - oh.

 

Have you ever played 5.0/6.0 in the recent years??? A few points:

• The Air RB 6.0 deadzone due to 288 spam is existing for years now and is fully intended by gaijin.
• In almost all other brackets you play 16 vs 16 - but there you play 6 vs 6 - including one team with 4 Ju 288s.
• 4 respawning bases - 4 288s, guaranteed income for first drop, i even saw several 288 bots there.
• And guess what - the mm creates 95% axis vs allies lobbies so Germany/Italy vs US/GB.
• I never saw a Chinese, Russian or French 5.0 plane in those 6 vs 6 matches there
• German Ju188s and 264s are screwed due to constant uptiers
• Newer GER/IT fighter pilots at 5.0 face exclusively fighters which outperforms or simply outclass them 

If you would have played several hundred matches like me in the 5.0 Italian P-47 in 80-95% full uptiers to 6.0 (and always assigned to 4 Ju 288s) you might stop calling out players addressing exactly this extremely annoying but fully intended match setup by gaijin.    

 

By the way if somebody likes challenges: I recommend to play a German/Italian 5.0 plane there. At least from time to time. Ok, will ruin your win rate and other stats (but idc) and playing always 2 vs 5-6 technically superior enemy fighters is not for everyone a desired goal, but with some experience (and necessary luck) you can win about 50% of these matches - your chances increase significantly if you have an experienced fighter with you.... 

 

[anyuser 5,136]

56 minutes ago, Uncle J Wick@live said:

If you would have played several hundred matches like me in the 5.0 Italian P-47 in 80-95% full uptiers to 6.0 (and always assigned to 4 Ju 288s) you might stop calling out players addressing exactly this extremely annoying but fully intended match setup by gaijin

BS

 

1. BRs are based on player statistics. Gaijin and deciding on their own to create such a bracked? That will contradict every other unloved BR change because of statistics where players pointing out how bad their statistics is.

Ju288 might be successful, but not enough to go up higher. They will do so when their statistics say so - see B-29 or Tu-4. But Ju288 is often bought up by new players or (often enough) bad tankers, who think they will print lions with it - and get killed in while trying to do so.

 

2. The behavior you describe is fully explainable by MM rules. The MM is only allowed to have 4 bombers each team. There are so many bombers waiting for a game, that it is not possible to create a match with many more players without breaking that rule - THAT WAS WANTED BY THE PLAYERS BECAUSE OF "BOMBERSPAM" (back then US one btw).

When there are to many bombers, MM has to create more smaller matches to not break the bomber number rule and the remaining fighters will be used to make the matches a little more then 4vs4.

If you wouldn't got the bomber rule, you would have like 10 to 14 bombers in a 16 player team.

Like it was back then.

And yes, sorry, not every nation spams bombers to the same extend at every BR.

 

In Addition, RB MM was expanded more in the past, but at its core the game still tries to have Nation(combination) vs Nation(combination) that can be explained somehow for certain timeframes

US + GB vs GER +ITA is one of those. US + GB vs japan is another one. GER + japan - unlikely. US + USSR - unlikely. In a game with GER/ITA and US/GB it is very unlikely to see USSR or japan or CHI because of semi historical matchups. And FRA - what do they even got in that BR Range?

Why is it this way? BECAUSE PLAYERS DON'T WANT MM LIKE IN AB.

 

The only nation you played more and that does not belong to this kind of matchup is japan. And you didn't used them that often.

 

Players wanted certain rules for the MM.

Many players want to play their bombers.

The game follows the rules - player created problem other players are mad about. Often enough players who contribute to the problem in the first place.

 

And there are bots, like there were B18 bots (and most likely are), but the majority of the bombers that want to spawn are players. Because those people think it is easy money that way.

 

So, what do you want? Reduce numbers of bombers per team?
Wellcome 4vs4 with 4 allied fighters and 2 bombers on your side.

 

Reduce income for bombers? Outcry...

 

 

 

Just for you, there is a principle called Hanlon's Razor.

You WANT that all those things you don't like are there because Gaijin is evil. While it is very easy explained by Gaijin doing some things in a lazy and some things in a stupid way.

And even more by players are stupid. It is a basic rule for this game. Expect the player to do stupid things - and blame everything else for them.

Edited June 4, 2023 by anyuser

[Gruminator 610]

a Wyvern is awesome for the job

[Real K Soze@live 407]

1 hour ago, anyuser said:

You WANT that all those things you don't like are there because Gaijin is evil. While it is very easy explained by Gaijin doing some things in a lazy and some things in a stupid way.

And even more by players are stupid. It is a basic rule for this game. Expect the player to do stupid things - and blame everything else for them

 

Dude - u tried to share your pov in the recent weeks always defending gaijin; some called you a press officer, spokesperson, whatever...

 

Idc about this, it is a free world. I even share some of your thoughts regarding decreasing skill on average.
 

But your reply is so far away from reality i decided to answer to your nonsense arguments.  

 

The only reason why we have 6 vs 6 in Air RB is to support sales of Ju 288s and to give rookies/less experienced US/GB fighter pilots a kind of petting area without much fighter opposition. And you find the tryhards there, pushing stats as they always have the number advantage. 

 

With small lobbies 4 Ju 288s can easy get one of the 4 bases and play victim for less skilled allied pilots. The 288s gain a profit after they bombed their base and get killed. And the Ju288: i mean we had several open and hidden nerfs in the last 3-4 years - more overheating, more fragile damage model, decreasing fire goes out ratio, reduce rip speed, constant refusal to implement the proven 2x SC 2500 layout etc. and the still sell it like sliced bread.

 

If you would try to think further you might realize that the 6v6 Ju288 issue is almost perfect business case for gaijin.

• The tankers need SLs to play tanks - so they buy the 288. They have a 99% chance to kill a base and earn SL.
• The majority of US fighter pilots around 5.0/6.0 is on their way to top tier and lack the necessary experience or patience to use the full potential of their planes. So all they have to do is to intercept low 288s on their 2nd run by waiting above their af.
• So a win-win-win for all - German tankers, US/GB fighters and gaijin due to 288 sales
• The only losers here are German / Italy fighter pilots which dominated Air RB for years 

The rest of your thoughts look like you don't play or played Air RB around 5.0/6.0 that often:

1. I mean mixed mm vs semi-historical mm - do you read your stuff before posting? We have no semi historical mm - besides those very rare pacific maps, even rarer Norway or Operation Husky, but, surprise in 6 vs 6 lobbies with Ju288s...
2. If you play wt for many years you might remember the French NC 900 at 5.0 and the reduction to max 4 bombers was based on other reasons. But you knew that.
3. Last but not least, at least in Air RB the B-18B bots are long gone, i actually saw one and a P 108 bot with 4000 deaths and 50 kills some days ago. Ju 288 bots are very common, just read the forum or play this bracket.  

 

1 hour ago, anyuser said:

So, what do you want?

 

Stop trying to educate others like in this case with your "Pippi Longstocking" attitude - i respect any deviating pov, but building an alternate reality in order to support your claim ("Players are the root cause for lousy game/gamplay design") like you tried in this case is simply not working if you are not active in this segment and if you are on a crusade against objectively bad decisions by gaijin.

 

And please stop trying to justify the pile of xxxx we have in Air RB.

 

PS: I have an old inactive account with 290d game time. So please stop this right now, thx in advance. 

[anyuser 5,136]

1 hour ago, Uncle J Wick@live said:

The only reason why we have 6 vs 6 in Air RB is to support sales of Ju 288s and to give rookies/less experienced US/GB fighter pilots a kind of petting area without much fighter opposition. 

A2D-1

 

Gaijin has absolutely NO problem to BR a prem into oblivion (reminder, 9.0 in AB), when the statistics tell to do so. A prem that was in high demand, when it was at a lower BR. The A2D-1 was for a time in higher demand then the Ju288 and to be honest, US playerbase is even better for selling stuff to then GER one...

Or to quote you

1 hour ago, Uncle J Wick@live said:

The majority of US fighter pilots around 5.0/6.0 is on their way to top tier and lack the necessary experience or patience to use the full potential of their planes. So all they have to do is to intercept low 288s on their 2nd run by waiting above their af.

A2D wouldn't be a money making machine for Gaijin?

 

Just alone this single example kills everything you try to make up

 

 

As I said, the matches are not because Gaijin "wants" them that way.

The matches are that way because the Matchmaker simply follows the rules.

Are those rules are good ones? Hell now, those rules are broken in many ways.

 

1 hour ago, Uncle J Wick@live said:

If you play wt for many years you might remember the French NC 900 at 5.0 and the reduction to max 4 bombers was based on other reasons. But you knew that.

It was a reaction to the outcry because of the US Bomberspam back in the days...

 

 

1 hour ago, Uncle J Wick@live said:

more overheating, more fragile damage model, decreasing fire goes out ratio

Because global changes are ment to hit the Ju...

 

1 hour ago, Uncle J Wick@live said:

if you are not active in this segment and if you are on a crusade against objectively bad decisions by gaijin

I don't "defend" Gaijin. I don't even understand where that one is coming from. I called out Gaijin on stupid decisions or ideas in the past that often...

But I'm pointing out BS like your "Gaijin build it so on purpose". No, they did stupid things that piled up.

 

 

 

We can talk about RB being badly designed (and basically not touched for years)
We can talk about RB basically working less good then AB for giving purpose to bombers and attackers (and even there it is getting worse).

We can talk about bad BRs.

We can talk about stupid BR calculation based on statistics that are observed in the worst way you can imagine.

We can talk about why the hell tankers even get the idea of suiciding in plane modes to "make money" (and often enough even fail at this one).

We can talk about lazy half arsed decisions or "fixes" in the past. We got a hell of them.

Do you see how those are cracks to the very base of the game?

 

 

As I wrote.

Gaijin did many things in an either lazy or stupid way. To their defense - I know a lot of games and companies behind where this does fit.

That doesn't make it better in any way though.

 

But don't come up with the big conspiracy behind where you try to make up a big all around connection of everything to explain it all.

 

It is a combination of many small or large bad decisions and way to simple workarounds in the past (4 player limit for bombers while keeping teams must be equal in size), that are now backfire after being mixed with general human stupides. 

 

Or to use a more known phrase. Death by a thousands cuts.

 

And yes, in combination it is able to turn the game into a shitshow. Not only RB at a certain BR.

Is it on purpose? No

It is because, who ever would have to do so, failed to have the general overview for the whole thing.

 

And not to forget.

When calling out Gaijin for stupid things, you have to call out the community as well.

Edited June 4, 2023 by anyuser

[Morvran_ 661]

Bombers just no longer have any place in war thunder ARB or maybe even SB these days which Is a real shame. They are balanced for GRB and that often results them being way too high BRed. I don't think gaijin actually expects anyone to play a bomber in ARB these days, outside of the Ju288C SL farm.

 

At least in the German bombers you have turrets to defend yourself with. But the British bombers have no such luxury and your only hope is stealth. Which contrails have made a lot harder.

 

Matchmaking is also really not kind. Often pitching bombers vs fighters like you said. The only low ish br I play in ARB these days is 5.7 spitfires. And 90% of what you face is the Ju 288C and not a lot else.

 

Economy does suck, especially in SB where a typical bomber will have a repair cost 2-3x that of an equal tier fighter or ground attacker, but the same SL/Min. Despite often  being quite vulnerable. 

 

It's a shame. Bombers need a total overhaul, especially withwise to economy 

 

Edited June 5, 2023 by Morvran_