British Helicopter Tech Tree Discussion

[TerikG2014 1,389]

Helicopters!

Helicopters. ever since they've were added I've been desperate to see a British helicopter tree so much so i made one my self. Enjoy (suggestions welcome!)

The tree

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_4ZDyd62hcNe5ru6thHNXOzso9eVGbondKssZpyygXU/edit?usp=sharing

The vehicles

Scout

Spoiler

Westland scout AH.1

This I felt was a fairly good point to start at a light mobile helicopter that very much sets the them of the British that is to say light manoeuvrable helicopters produced by Westland.

Top speed: 131mph

Armament: 4*SS.11 ATGM's and 2 Pintell mounted  L7A1 GPMG's

.Gazelle

Spoiler

Westland Gazelle AH.1

The product of Anglo-French military co-operation the Gazelle was primarily used in a spotter role but like the scout it could also be adapted to serve an anti armour role.
Top speed: 193mph

Armament:

• 1 - 7.62-mm MG or
• 1 - 20-mm GIAT M.621 cannon [100 rounds] or
• 2 - 7.62-mm AA-52 FN MG pods [1,000 rounds]
• 2 - 2.75-in rocket pods (7 ea.)
• 2 - 68-mm SNEB rocket pods (12 ea)
• 2 - 57-mm rockets (18 ea.)
• 4-6 - HOT ATGM
• 4 - AT-3 SAGGER ATGM
• 2-4 - AS-11

Lynx AH.1

Spoiler

Westland Lynx AH.1

 

The first of the world renowned line of lynx helicopters the AH.1 was Britain do it all helicopter used in, Recon, Anti-tank, Airborne cavalry and medivac roles. this helicopter was limited in its attack role compared to latter models only being fitted with 8*TOW missiles ( and possibly cannons need to do some more digging) with a top speed of 207mph its a good mobile ATGM platform

Lynx AH.9

Spoiler

Lynx AH.9

This was a far more combat orientated lynx compared to the AH.1 taking armament inspiration from the lynx-3 it was a true battlefield lynx. Other changes include: more powerful engines, improved rotor blades and tricycle landing gear. She topped out at 190mph

 

Armament:

•  7.62mm machine gun installed inside the cabin
• two 20mm cannon can be mounted externally.
• External weapons pylons can carry two miniguns,
  • Gun pods
  • Rocket pods (presumably CRV-7 and SNEB)
  • Eight air-to-surface missiles such as HOT, Hellfire, Brimstone or TOW.
  • Up to eight missiles can be carried in the cabin ready for reloading.

Westland Apache WAH-64/AH.1

Spoiler

The British cousin 

This licence produced AH-64D  features a plethora of changes from it's american  counterpart, including: More powerful engines, improved rotors, a Helicopter integrated defensive aid system (HIDAS) improved comm's equipment, mountings for CRV-7 rockets and in certain cases the removal of a fuel tank to facilitate more ammunition for the M230 chain gun. It topped out at 182 mph

 

Armament:

• M230 chain gun
• Hellfire
• Star-streak
• Brimstone
• CRV-7(all variants)

 G-LYNX and Lynx-3

Spoiler

The premiums 

Lynx-3

This lynx was an early attempt at making a heavily armed lynx it could carry a payload similar to that of the AH.9 also featuring tricycle landing gear but had a less powerful engine than the lynx-9 with different rotor and tail systems.

G-LYNX

The most famous of the lynx helicopters it served as Westland's demonstrator for several years and was modified with specialised engines and rotors to break the helicopter constant speed record which it holds to this day as the fastest conventional helicopter ever with a top speed of 249.09mph. After achieving this record she retained most of her modifications and carried on as westlands demonstrator helicopter

 

 

Edited May 20, 2019 by TerikG2014

[Lanata 29]

if britain has helicopters then i have more competition

[TerikG2014 1,389]

@LalamaC_731 well that's hardly a bad thing

[magazine2 7,957]

Great finds, love the Westland Scout AH.1, hope we see it in-game soon.

[JimSan 704]

Just to add the list which I made some time ago when they first announced Helos into the game.

Mostly the same as yours except the inclusion of Wessexs, Sea Kings and a Wasp.

 

Feel free to add any which you feel is fitting to your tech tree, did list what weapons I could find for them except any side mounted guns.

Was also some talk on adding Commonwealth designs as well, hope it all helps.

[TerikG2014 1,389]

2 hours ago, JimSan said:

Wessexs, Sea Kings and a Wasp

Problem with the sea king and Wessex's is that weren't exactly well armed even comapred to things like the scout and Gazzel. The sea king was primally used for dipping sonar  in coordinaton with another helicopter (generally a lynx). The wasp is a different matter as it's more less a Scout more geared towards ASW and with wheeled landing gear.( When I drew up the list I looked into the these three but good suggestions still)

Edited January 8, 2019 by TerikG2014

[VeeEx 168]

You bringing up the Sea King and dipping sonar, wonder if there is a future for that if the modern subs ever show up?  

[TerikG2014 1,389]

Hmm it's definitely an idea

[TerikG2014 1,389]

I was recently doing some research for a suggestion for the Scout AH.1 and came across some fascinating things the scout it turns out was tried with far more armourments than I believed when I made this post. 

Turns out it was tested with:

7.62mm minigun

.50 cal HMG 

Swingifire ATGM's

Vigilant ATGM's

2 inch rockets

 

Edited January 11, 2019 by TerikG2014

[TerikG2014 1,389]

I have now down a full series of posts pertaining to adding British helos to the game on the suggestions page. https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/forum/1585-great-britain/

[Razielkaine 4,876]

Australian army can contribute this 

"The Tiger ARH (Armed Reconnaissance Helicopter) is the version ordered by the Australian Army to replace its OH-58 Kiowas and UH-1 Iroquois-based 'Bushranger' gunships. The Tiger ARH is a modified and upgraded version of the Tiger HAP with upgraded MTR390 engines as well as a laser designator incorporated in the Strix sight for the firing of Hellfire II air-to-ground missiles. Instead of SNEB unguided rockets, the ARH will use 70 mm (2.75 in) rockets."

 

 

 

 

[TerikG2014 1,389]

20 hours ago, Razielkaine said:

Australian army can contribute this 

"The Tiger ARH (Armed Reconnaissance Helicopter) is the version ordered by the Australian Army to replace its OH-58 Kiowas and UH-1 Iroquois-based 'Bushranger' gunships. The Tiger ARH is a modified and upgraded version of the Tiger HAP with upgraded MTR390 engines as well as a laser designator incorporated in the Strix sight for the firing of Hellfire II air-to-ground missiles. Instead of SNEB unguided rockets, the ARH will use 70 mm (2.75 in) rockets."

 

 

 

 

Ehhhhhhhh. No I'd rather we keep the tiger to France and Germany two nation's that used them domestically. But it's still something to consider

[NinjaMouse 42]

This tree would be perfect bar the Lynx AH-9 reference which was used as a utility chopper. The Lynx AH-7 however was armed later replaced by Apache. 

Edited February 19, 2019 by NinjaMouse

[TerikG2014 1,389]

10 hours ago, NinjaMouse said:

This tree would be perfect bar the Lynx AH-9 reference which was used as a utility chopper. The Lynx AH-7 however was armed later replaced by Apache. 

i have adressed this issue in my suggestions post for the lynx

 

[armando30 493]

this will be interesting, the rumors point out for a bunch of helicopters built under license (Apache, Gazelle) + the Lynx, the fact that the French have been announced first may futher support those rumors

 

I might be one of the few but I would prefer also adding helicopters from Commonwealth nations

 

Australia: Eurocopter Tiger (probably an exception)

 

South Africa: Denel Rooivalk

 

India: HAL LCH

 

and finally there are the Augusta/AugustaWestland/Leonardo helicopters that fit both for the British and Italian Helicopter Tree

AW139M

A129 Mangusta

TAI/AW T129 ATAK

 

these are technically more of  British origin (from being designed by a Italian-British company) than the Westland Apache or Westland Gazelle built under license

[TerikG2014 1,389]

3 minutes ago, armando30 said:

A129 Mangusta

Mangusta was only Augusta hence it only being A not AW

[armando30 493]

2 hours ago, TerikG2014 said:

Mangusta was only Augusta hence it only being A not AW

 

true, but it's all 1 company now, would still make sense, but I do understand why the Apache and Gazelle will be added, they are used by the RA afterall, but going further the Augusta/AugustaWestland/Leonardo Helicopters and the Commonwealth related ones should be an option as well

[Smin1080p 60,444]

On 18/02/2019 at 08:18, Razielkaine said:

Australian army can contribute this 

"The Tiger ARH (Armed Reconnaissance Helicopter) is the version ordered by the Australian Army to replace its OH-58 Kiowas and UH-1 Iroquois-based 'Bushranger' gunships. The Tiger ARH is a modified and upgraded version of the Tiger HAP with upgraded MTR390 engines as well as a laser designator incorporated in the Strix sight for the firing of Hellfire II air-to-ground missiles. Instead of SNEB unguided rockets, the ARH will use 70 mm (2.75 in) rockets."

 

 

 

 

 

In the same way its really not necessary for the Brits to get multiple Sabre variants "just because they can" (thx commonwealth  ) an Aussie Tiger is also a somewhat surplus to requirement for a British helicopter tree. 

[RNBolzano 4]

 

I am against what you say @ Smin1080p because (the United Kingdom: in 1995, the country chose the helicopter AgustaWestland Apache to the detriment of the Tiger), so why you propose it in English which one refuses irl and especially that you would shout the community

 

Edited March 16, 2019 by grievous999
error

[TerikG2014 1,389]

14 hours ago, Smin1080p said:

 

In the same way its really not necessary for the Brits to get multiple Sabre variants "just because they can" (thx commonwealth  ) an Aussie Tiger is also a somewhat surplus to requirement for a British helicopter tree. 

I completely agree with you old chap (I hope you've read the rest of my posts on the moderated suggestions area I'd like to know what you think)

2 hours ago, grievous999 said:

I am against what you say @ Smin1080p because (the United Kingdom: in 1995, the country chose the helicopter AgustaWestland Apache to the detriment of the Tiger), so why you propose it in English which one refuses irl and especially that you would shout the community

 

I think the reason smin is saying he's against the tiger and saying it's surplus is probably because to the existence of the WAH-64 which as I have pointed out before is a unique domestic variant of the apache.

Edited March 16, 2019 by TerikG2014

[armando30 493]

I actually agree with @Smin1080p about the UK not needing the EUROCOPTER Tiger for its helicopter tree, especially since it will likely be added to the French and German trees in the future (most advanced attack helicopter used by both nations)

with that we have 2 nations with the Tiger (EC665)

Japan will likely be the second nation with AH-1's in the game

the UK and the US have a high chance of getting the Apache as well

Italy will most likely receive the Augusta A129 Mangusta wich could also be added for the UK as the AugustaWestland T129

 

there's really no need for the Tiger on a third nation and if we talk about Commonwealth nations you still have South-Africa and India who developed their own attack helicopters

South-African Denel Rooivalk (developed from French Puma, the Puma was also produced by Westland)

Indian HAL LCH

[Smin1080p 60,444]

Once again, Britain fundamentally has a plethora of her own designs to choose from. Indeed the commonwealth options are there, but they are certainly not a necessity. 

[TerikG2014 1,389]

10 hours ago, Smin1080p said:

Once again, Britain fundamentally has a plethora of her own designs to choose from. Indeed the commonwealth options are there, but they are certainly not a necessity. 

I couldn't agree more why add something from another nation when something domestic can do the job and do It well (I hope this means we won't see Wessex(H-35) in game as sure we produced our own variant but what add that when there's something domestic desgined and built that can do the job better) (also @Smin1080p if you ever interested in doing some research into G-Lynx and, Lynx-3 (and well the lynx in general) I can recommend Weston Helicopter museum where the airframes of both helicopters present and they have an amazing amount of information on the history of British Helicopter development.)

Edited March 21, 2019 by TerikG2014

[Razielkaine 4,876]

I don't understand why France got a helicopter tree a

While being one of the newest trees whereas brits didn't.  Not only that I decided to play my French chopper the other day only to realise they only have one tank that it can go with due to its br (which I don't have)  so a whole tree of content only a handful of players can actually use effectively. 

[TerikG2014 1,389]

54 minutes ago, Razielkaine said:

I don't understand why France got a helicopter tree a

While being one of the newest trees whereas brits didn't.  Not only that I decided to play my French chopper the other day only to realise they only have one tank that it can go with due to its br (which I don't have)  so a whole tree of content only a handful of players can actually use effectively. 

probably got somthing to  do with us getting another MBT and the french not getting one.