Spanish Ground Forces Tech Tree

[PikPikker 444]

Hello, I'm going to suggest adding Spain as a new nation to the game, and here is Spanish Ground Forces Tech Tree:

https://pikpikker.neocities.org/spa_wt.html

This is my own site where you can enlarge every picture and click any tank to read about it!

The tree as a picture:

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Despite of Spain's actual neutrality during WW2 this country still has a lot of vehicles for War Thunder. Of course more than a half of them are modifications, but deep enough: new guns, turrets, ATGMs and so on, making them totally different battle machines.

 

Now I will give a little review on each line.

Line 1 - light and medium tanks. Here are Verdeja light tanks, American modifications... The most remarkable one is Leox - Leopard 1 with AMX-30 turret!

Line 2 - tank destroyers. There are many unique SPGs. I even was lucky enough to find pictures of Bateria de Asalto StuG III modifications.

Line 3 - SPAAGs. They are fine, but their BRs make some big gaps sometimes. The main question is - why is there a clone in the top? AMX-30RE is not just a clone - it was under licensed production in Spain.

Line 4 - light tanks. It mostly goes with wheeled light tanks, with a bunch of clones. At rank 6 and higher there are tracked light tanks of ASCOD series.

 

Some words about my tech tree.

At first, I tried avoiding too many copies - and that is why not all the Spanish tanks might be here (for example, I avoided some import tanks like M56 Scorpion or American/French tanks without modifications).

All the BRs are approximate (or can be totally wrong), and were set as for arcade mode.

All the shown premium tanks can be implemented as available for purchase for Lions, pack specials or any others.

I expect AAC-1937 and Pz. I Breda to be the Reserve tanks.

 

Vehicle count:

Rank 1: 8 (for research) + 4 (premiums)

Rank 2: 7 + 1

Rank 3: 7 + 1

Rank 4: 6 + 3

Rank 5: 10 + 5

Rank 6: 10 + 3

Rank 7: 5

Total: 70 vehicles (53 without premiums)

 

Here is the vehicle list with all the tank pictures, but only a little number has a description. You can access decent sources for all other tanks from my site (I will also answer all the questions regarding my tree if you have any!).

 

Vehicles

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Line 1 - tanks

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AAC-1937

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AAC-1937/T-26

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Verdeja Prototipo

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Verdeja I

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Verdeja II

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M24 Chaffee

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Pz. IV H

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M-41E

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M-41/60E

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M-47E2

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AMX-30E

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LEOX

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AMX-30EM2

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AMX-30EM2 SABBLIR

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Lince

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Leopard 2E

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Line 2 - tank destroyers

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Pz. I Breda

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C.C.I. Tipo 1937

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Carro de Combate M-50

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Canon de 75/40 mm Verdeja

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Obus de 105/28 mm

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StuG III G

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Obus de 88/56 mm

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Obus de 122/46 mm

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M-37 CSR 106

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BMR-600 TC-7

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A prototype of BMR-600 with two 106 mm recoilles rifles. It was not successful, for example, because of manual loading, and only 1 vehicle was built.

BMR-3564

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BMR C/C MILAN

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M113 MILAN

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BMR C/C TOW

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M-41E TUA Cazador

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BMR-3560.57

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M-41E HAKO

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M-41E Mephisto

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Yes, this tank hunter was only a project, but it uses M-41E HAKO hull and Mephisto turret with HOT-2 ATGM, which was materialized as well. More than that, M-41E HAKO (this hull) allowed modular change of armament without any changes.

 

Line 3 - SPAAGs

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Fiat CV.33/35 Breda

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AAC-1937 MG-34

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This vehicle is known to be a German conversion, but some experts think it was built in Spain, making it a Spanish unit.

Chevrolet Antiaereo de 20 mm Breda

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In 1940's some Chevrolet trucks received 20 mm Breda autocanons, saw during Madrid parade. It is not clear if they had the full traverse or even if they were able to shoot - it is possible the guns were just carried this way.

Antiaereo 13.2 mm Hotchkiss

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A big number of these SPAAGs were used by Spain until 1950's. There is 13.2 mm Hotchkiss M1930 double autocanon on, presumably, Chevrolet chassis.

BMR-625 VEC

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BMR SIDAM 25

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VAMTAC Mistral

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AMX-30 Roland Espana

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 Line 4 - light tanks

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 MC-36/T-26

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VAMTAC ST5 BN.3 LAG-40

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AML-60 LAG-40

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AML-90

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 BMR-600/H-90

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BMR-600 with turret from French AML-90 (90 mm F1)

Piranha III

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VRC-105

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 ASCOD Pizarro

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ASCOD IFV 30

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ASCOD Pizarro LMA

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ASCOD LT-105

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Line 5, 6 - premiums

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Carro Infateria 1936

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This is a project of improving Trubia tank which was built itself, and I guess it may fit the game. If no - the tree can go without it.

T-26 (Nationalist)

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T-26 (Republican)

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BT-5

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T-28

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Some sources state Spain received a single T-28 for testing purposes. Hard to say for sure if it happened indeed, but if so, a good premium this tank would be.

M56 de 76 mm

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M56 Scorpion with 76 mm existed at least as a project, but it is hard to say if it was ever built. I suppose 76 mm gun installed on it was the 76 mm M32 from M41 WB.

FV-101 Scorpion

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Obus SB 155/39 ATP "San Carlos"

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L-18-R6

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Pegaso 3045D (Spanish truck) with 18 rockets from 1969. These rockets could fly 12500 m far and had a weight of 8.8 kg. L-18-R6 MLRS served at least until 1980s.

Teruel

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AMX-30 El-Nino

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AMX-30 P-006

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Barreiros L-21 E3

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M109A5

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VAMTAC BGM-71 TOW

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M-48A5E2

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M-60A3E1 Cristobita

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Sources

The full list of sources is pretty large, and you can access it here: https://pikpikker.neocities.org/about.html

Edited March 25, 2020 by PikPikker
Adding new vehicles

[leroyonly 4,310]

Open for discussion. 

[Nicholas_Concu 2,634]

+1, Personal favourite is the BMR with the SIDAM-25 on top.

Suggestion;
Add the Spanish IFV known as Pizarro.

[PikPikker 444]

39 minutes ago, Nicholas_Concu said:

Add the Spanish IFV known as Pizarro.

 

I will add ASCOD vehicle family for another tech tree, in case to avoid including the same things twice. 

[PlanyKaanere 722]

1 hour ago, PikPikker said:

 

I will add ASCOD vehicle family for another tech tree, in case to avoid including the same things twice. 

 

I disagree with that. There usually isn't a problem with adding the same vehicle to two TTs if both nations participated in its developement. The MBT-70 / KPZ-70 is an example. With a tree with relatively few vehicles such as the Spanish one, we shouldn't be excluding vehicles just because they could be part of another tree.

[PikPikker 444]

If people want to see Pizarro here - I'm happy to bring it into the tree! 3 new ASCOD vehicles are already in the tree 

[eleks12 1,079]

If South/Latin America is included in the main tree sure then it's a +1. But it's most likely a -1 if it's a sole Spanish tree. Cuz i don't wanna grind into another line of American tanks in order to try some unique high tier machines. just like the Chinese tree that gets very stale at rank 3 Though i do not mind something like the M-60A3E1 Cristobita that is pretty cool. but im allways open for getting my mind changed

[PikPikker 444]

4 hours ago, eleks12 said:

If South/Latin America is included in the main tree sure then it's a +1. But it's most likely a -1 if it's a sole Spanish tree. Cuz i don't wanna grind into another line of American tanks in order to try some unique high tier machines. just like the Chinese tree that gets very stale at rank 3 Though i do not mind something like the M-60A3E1 Cristobita that is pretty cool. but im allways open for getting my mind changed

 

Alright, let's have a close look at the first, tank line.

Ranks 1-2 are filled with unique Spanish things.

Rank 3 - yes, just some two copies, but only two, not like in the Chinese tree.

Rank 4 - a little bit another Walker Bulldog (with new engine and some equipment), which, okay, let's say it is a clone too. But there is also Pizarro - Spain-built IFV with absolutely specific gameplay.

Rank 5 - M41 and M47 with new armament never installed on them in USA - surely not clones. AMX-30E is almost the same as French AMX-30, one more clone.

Rank 6-7 - unique Spanish tanks again: my favorite Leopard 1 with AMX-30 turret, AMX-30EM2 indigenous Spanish modernization (which has much more power than AMX-30B2 - up to 23 hp/t) and the same EM2 with reactive armor. And of course two last Leopards can not be named clones.

So what do we have? 18 tanks in the whole line, and there are only 4 clones. Seems understandable for such tiny country as Spain, isn't it?..

And don't forget about two other lines (SPG and SPAAG) that are likely more than 90% new.  

[Xenecrite 899]

@PikPikker

I have seen quite a lot of things like a Russian T-34 in reinforced concrete.
But here Spain has the gold medal question inventiveness by collecting vehicles of any kind they invented all types of armored car some of their armor is reinforced with mattresses and some of hardened steel plates.
It's really good
Ps: Here you will be able to modify in your tree the Spanish T-26 and to put it in the place this one which for me makes a real premium it made leave of the Spanish resistance.

 

Spoiler

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if you want to go to this site else are listed is some have heavy machine guns and other cannons of 20 mm and 37 mm
like this for your tree will be more complete.

http://vehiculosblindadosdelaguerracivil.blogspot.com/

[PikPikker 444]

2 hours ago, Xenecrite said:

@PikPikker

I have seen quite a lot of things like a Russian T-34 in reinforced concrete.
But here Spain has the gold medal question inventiveness by collecting vehicles of any kind they invented all types of armored car some of their armor is reinforced with mattresses and some of hardened steel plates.
It's really good
Ps: Here you will be able to modify in your tree the Spanish T-26 and to put it in the place this one which for me makes a real premium it made leave of the Spanish resistance.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

  Reveal hidden contents

 

if you want to go to this site else are listed is some have heavy machine guns and other cannons of 20 mm and 37 mm
like this for your tree will be more complete.

http://vehiculosblindadosdelaguerracivil.blogspot.com/

 

What a kind of an interesting site! Shame on me I have not seen it before. I will explore it as soon as possible. Thanks!

 

Now there are two T-26s for both sides of the Civil War 

Edited November 28, 2019 by PikPikker

[Seefelder@psn 130]

Awesome work there, keep going with it +1 from me. Ps add pizarro

[Nicholas_Concu 2,634]

5 minutes ago, *Seefelder said:

Awesome work there, keep going with it +1 from me. Ps add pizarro

They have uwu

[WayOfTheWolk 1,573]

I would suggest expanding on your Spanish tech tree to include the Portuguese as well. It might make sense to have a combined "Iberian tech tree" just because Portugal has a variety of equipment to offer especially concerning naval vessels.

[PikPikker 444]

2 hours ago, Private_Wolk said:

I would suggest expanding on your Spanish tech tree to include the Portuguese as well. It might make sense to have a combined "Iberian tech tree" just because Portugal has a variety of equipment to offer especially concerning naval vessels.

 

Uh, I'm afraid they don't have any unique ground vehicles except Bravia Chaimite and some car-mounted ATGMs (don't I forget anything?).

 

But there was a number of their modifications making possible the unlockable Portuguese Ground Forces Tech Tree, which would start at rank 4. This would work like you have to go through Spanish 3 ranks and then you can proceed to Spanish rank 4 or go to Portuguese rank 4. And beginning from this rank 4, Portuguese ground forces tech tree will look like an independent one. What do you think about this idea?  

[tteoteo 37]

i think spain its one of the forgotten countries in war games. 

 

We were present in a lot of conflicts since wwii. The war starts in our home... 

 

Lets see if finally  we see a spanish tech tree.  I support that +1000!!

 

(in the other hand, we were one of the last countries to use the f4 phantom, i miss a good camo for it. )

Edited November 29, 2019 by tteoteo

[Solarmod 1,203]

I'd like to see this!

[WayOfTheWolk 1,573]

On 29/11/2019 at 05:01, PikPikker said:

 

Uh, I'm afraid they don't have any unique ground vehicles except Bravia Chaimite and some car-mounted ATGMs (don't I forget anything?).

 

But there was a number of their modifications making possible the unlockable Portuguese Ground Forces Tech Tree, which would start at rank 4. This would work like you have to go through Spanish 3 ranks and then you can proceed to Spanish rank 4 or go to Portuguese rank 4. And beginning from this rank 4, Portuguese ground forces tech tree will look like an independent one. What do you think about this idea?  

That's why I make special mention of their navy which has many unique vessels to offer. I know their ground forces offers nothing new to the table, it would be a limited inclusion at best.

[Borotovas 4,500]

+1

[Milocat 4,849]

I have to agree with Private Wolk, but I would love to see a unified Spanish/Portuguese tech tree!

[Soldier_676_@psn 95]

Yeah, I would rather see them literally 'combined'. There would just be a few additions to the existing trees.
I don't think it is wrong to unlock a Spanish, Portugese and then Spanish vehicle.

[Seefelder@psn 130]

A STUG III with rockets

[Kasukaru 2,164]

I wouldn't mind, at least if it is combined with Portuguese. +1 (conditional)

[Seefelder@psn 130]

https://live.warthunder.com/post/865666/en/

I would love to se Spain being addad as next nation, i know  a few of the vehicle would be copy paste but you could use the spanish tree as a playground for other nations aswell, specially for those that dont have a navy like the swiss for example.

Edited January 31, 2020 by *Seefelder

[Nicholas_Concu 2,634]

I did some more reaserch and found some more vehicles that spain uses.

Centauro (spanish name VRC-105)




Barreiros L-21 E3


ASCOD IFV 30



M113 Milan



M109 A5


AML LAG 40


PIRAÑA III



AML 90

Spanish army dodger with recoiless rifle.


URO VAMTAC ST5 BN.3


Vehículo blindado anfibio AAV-7

[PrussianOwl 438]

What about the Carro de Combate de Infanteria tipo 1937? Also if this doesn't pan out it could be added to the French or Italian trees