234/4 mit AK7B (alternative gun for the 75mm Pakpuma) - enough to be viable for inclusion?

[N4CR_ 537]

Hello all,

 

I have spent some time digging up the possibility of requesting a 234/4 mit AK7B aka 'SdKfz 234/4 AK7B (Aufklaererkanone 7 B), 75mm (project)' to be added to the game. Either as another event vehicle (oh the irony) or TT.  OR for trade to exchange for other event vehicles?

It uses a slightly different gun to the normal 234/4 as it allows slightly more movement and less room taken up by the breech. This gun was designed for the 38t variant to incorporate the gun as the Aufklaererkanone 7 B or AK7B but also suggested for the 234/4 late production.  This gun is referenced in Panzer Tracts 20-2 (20-76), have attached the diagram from this source.

Considering WT requires:

 

Quote

 

What constitutes an (unfinished) prototype:

• Vehicle was (partially) constructed
• Vehicle-specific parts (i.e. guns, powerplants, etc.) were built

 

 

 

1. We have the obvious 234/4 chassis of which 15k were produced (sadly limited to an event for players half a decade or more ago)
2. The AK7b gun was also clearly produced and tested

So we have a 'project/prototype' with an existing hull and an existing gun. Surely then it qualifies?

 

Quote

 

Quote

" Spielberger states that a Lorraine was used as testmount for the Aufklaererkanone 7,5 cm AK 7 B 84 (640/1) L/48 with a three men crew, first in end of 1944 and later in begin March 1945 on the Kummersdorf testfiring range.
Panzer Tracts 20-2 states one of these guns was testfired on 18 January 1945 in Kummersdorf but does not mention the base vehicle. They do, however, give a drawing of the Aufklarerkanone."

 

Allegedly the gun as also used on some late variants of the 251/22. 

 

If you are interested or have further info please reply. I'd love to suggest this to the devs (make a poll here first) if more intelligent and qualified people are interested 
Thanks!

 

[Drahau 682]

@StuhlfleischAny info on this in the archives ?

 

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

Just now, Drahau said:

@StuhlfleischAny info on this in the archives ?

 

Not that I'd know.

[Drahau 682]

@NoodleCup31 you have also seen a ton of prototypes. Any info?

[NoodleCup31 8,824]

18 hours ago, Drahau said:

@NoodleCup31 you have also seen a ton of prototypes. Any info?

I remember this one, but as OP has already stated we unfortunately have no further information about the gun and it has never been installed on a Puma.

This is how it would have looked like, but that's basically it

[NoodleCup31 8,824]

Have a cool goodie instead

A  Hetzer with KwK 37 Stummel

 

Or the Bergepanzer 38t with a MK 103

Edited February 8, 2022 by NoodleCup31

[T3MPEST 2,728]

honestly they should swap the pak wagon for this as it would be a better premium than the Pak wagon being a super exclusive 1000.00+ vehicle not in the regular tree considering it was a mass produced vehicle and ontop of that germany is desperately lacking a fast scout vehicle from the puma all the way to the walker bulldog...

[N4CR_ 537]

On 17/02/2022 at 13:37, T3MPEST said:

honestly they should swap the pak wagon for this as it would be a better premium than the Pak wagon being a super exclusive 1000.00+ vehicle not in the regular tree considering it was a mass produced vehicle and ontop of that germany is desperately lacking a fast scout vehicle from the puma all the way to the walker bulldog...

Agreed. It would be a logical move and keep it super exclusive and rare (and in a case where it would be in low volumes.. not 15k volumes).

[Chomusuke1 1,219]

On 02/02/2022 at 05:09, N4CR_ said:

enough to be viable for inclusion?

 

How about these two instead?:

 

[G1label 143]

Do we have gun specifications? It could be better than the one currently on the sdkfz 234 since it is an l/48 rather than an l/46 (which isn't much but it's something).

[T3MPEST 2,728]

29 minutes ago, G1label said:

Do we have gun specifications? It could be better than the one currently on the sdkfz 234 since it is an l/48 rather than an l/46 (which isn't much but it's something).

 

 

https://www.armedconflicts.com/mittlerer-Schuetzenpanzerwagen-7-5cm-Sd-Kfz-251-22-AK-7-B-84-t93784

Quote

In 8/1944 WaPrüf commissioned 4 companies Rheinmetall angle to design a design proposal for a 7.5 cm cannon Kw.K.40 L/48 from a medium tank Pz.Kpfw.IV do Sd.Kfz.251 a Sd.Kfz.234 . The modified cannon was marked Aufklärerkanone AK 7 B 84. The cannon mounted in the mentioned vehicles had a measurement of 15 ° to the right and 15 ° to the left, the elevation ranged from -8 ° to + 16 °. It was a separate project, which was probably to lighten the overloaded platforms of the same types of vehicles with a 7.5 cm cannon Pa.K.40  Sd.Kfz.251/22 and  Sd.Kfz.234/4. At the end of 10/1944, Rheinmetall created a design proposal. The AK 7 B 84 cannon had a lower silhouette than the commonly used anti-tank cannon 7.5 cm Pa.K. 40 L/46, easier to handle and took up less combat space. Only four prototypes of this cannon were made. According to a report by Ober.Ing. Kruma from the company Rheinmetall-Borsig the company did not have a chassis for which the cannon was intended and therefore used the old platform of the French artillery tractor Lorraine ( 7.5 cm AK 7 B 84 auf Lorraine Schlepper (f) ), on which one test cannon mounted . This curious vehicle underwent shooting tests on January 18, 1945 at the Kummersdorf shooting range. However, the intention to mount the AK 7 B 84 cannon on a small Schützenpanzerwagen (7.5 cm) (Sd.Kfz.251/22) was suspended, but new proposals were made Aufklärungspanzer 38 D mit 7,5 cm AK 7 B 84 a Sd.Kfz.234 mit 7,5cm AK 7 B 84. However, the eventual production of cannons was planned at the very end of the war in 4-5/1945, so it goes without saying that none of these projects were completed in series.

 

Im guessing slightly better performance than the 7.5cm Pak 40 L/46 to no real performance gain but it did give us a clue to follow bolded above 7.5 cm AK 7 B 84 auf Lorraine Schlepper (f)

 

https://tanksrarities.blogspot.com/2019/06/lorraine-37l-como-soporte-de-artilleria.html

Quote

The  Rheinmetall company  undertook a project to create a new "lightened" version of the aforementioned gun, called the 7.5 cm Aufklärerkanone AK 7 B 84. The new anti-tank gun had a lower silhouette, took up less space and was easier to handle. Four prototypes were built, but when it came time to install it they had no suitable vehicle on hand, so they turned to a Lorraine Schlepper 37L(f) tractor. A cannon was installed and it was sent for firing tests at the Kummersdorf proving ground on 18-01-1945. Installation on the  Sd.Kfz.251/22,  Sd.Kfz.234 and the  Jagdpanzer 38D was later studied, but the war came to an end before serial production.

[G1label 143]

1 hour ago, T3MPEST said:

 

 

https://www.armedconflicts.com/mittlerer-Schuetzenpanzerwagen-7-5cm-Sd-Kfz-251-22-AK-7-B-84-t93784

 

Im guessing slightly better performance than the 7.5cm Pak 40 L/46 to no real performance gain but it did give us a clue to follow bolded above 7.5 cm AK 7 B 84 auf Lorraine Schlepper (f)

 

https://tanksrarities.blogspot.com/2019/06/lorraine-37l-como-soporte-de-artilleria.html

Cool. I really hope we can get the puma to fill the vacant light tank space between 2.7 and 6.3. 

[N4CR_ 537]

On 07/02/2022 at 06:45, Stuhlfleisch said:

Not that I'd know.

 

So, with all this information, do you think it's worth to go ahead with suggestion? It existed in hull and gun form so should satisfy the requirements and it would make for an excellent TT addition to flesh out the BR4 Rank 3 German light/medium tank hole. Or be exchanged for the existing coupon models and made as a slightly lightened premium model with the standard 234/4 moved to tech tree.

 

 

Edited November 28, 2022 by N4CR_

[T3MPEST 2,728]

I'd say go for it, cant hurt really

[Ghostmaxi 873]

For a rank 3 Br 3.3 id still would prefer to see this.

it is relativly fast with 50 km/h, has 20-14,5mm to protect from cal 50 from distance, and is slightly better that the M3 gun but also with a 360° Turret. 

 

[T3MPEST 2,728]

well, all things considered gaijin will find a way to screw the pooch on either one of them...