ground force M1 CATTB

[CaID 8,996]

 

I would like to suggest the Ultimate MBT for the American tree. the M1 CATTB

 

 

The M1 CATTB (Component Advanced Technology Test Bed) was a up-gunned version of the M1 abram. the tank was studying the possibility to fit the 140mm gun on the M1 Abram tank. the up-graded obviously required to fit a larger turret. the new gun was a XM291 140mm which came with a autoloader and had potentially the double firepower and kinetic power than the 120mm gun. the project was initiated in the late 80 with the purpose to counter the treat of the Soviet tank which was rumoured to have working on fitting the 135mm and 152mm gun on MBT.

The tower was substantially rearranged in order to accommodate two crew members, instead of three. Now the loader was replaced by an automatic machine. Among other things, this was caused by the new 140 mm XM291 cannon, the shells of which required more space, and their increased weight made manual loading slow.

Unlike the “ordinary” Abrams with a gas turbine engine, a 1450-horsepower Cummins turbodiesel was installed on a test bench. Firstly, the latest heat-resistant materials that retained heat were used in the design of the cylinder block. Most of it returned, creating additional pressure in the turbocharger. This allowed to increase the efficiency of the motor and reduce fuel consumption. Another feature was the cooling system, which also used oil that circulated in the lubrication system. An additional radiator was added to the circle, and oil passing through it cooled the engine. Such a strange solution allowed to reduce the volume of the cooling system. And only 120 of 1450 forces were taken for his work - against 240 in a similar engine.

 

the protection of the frontal projections to the angle of inclination of the armor. It would seem - 310 mm by the standards of those years is not serious. But studies have shown that Soviet sub-caliber shells with a detachable sump will ricochet at an angle of inclination below 10 degrees. The same applies to ATGM fuses and RPG shells that are sensitive to large angles. One of the most modern RPGs of that time - the German Panzerfaust 3 did not explode at angles below 15 degrees. the addition of a large amounts of smoke grenade also provide a increase suitability to the tank on the battlefield.

 

The 140 mm gun did on the M1 chassis not entered. Low ammunition and a large mass have become a critical problem. the Abrams of next generation M1A3 will receive the same 120-mm gun, but from lightweight materials. the German and french also unsuccessfully try to fit a 140mm gun on their moderm MBT and like the american counter-part, they didn't put their prototype into service for various reason. either for logistic or because of the fall of USSR

 

Specifications
Mass	~70 tons
Length	Hull length: 26.02 ft (7.93 m)
Width	12 ft (3.66 m)
Height	~8 ft (2.44 m)
Crew	3 (commander/machine gunner, gunner, loader, driver)
Armor	depleted uranium mesh-reinforced composite armor[8] 600 mm vs APFSDS, 700 mm vs HEAT, Turret –310 mm vs APFSDS,
Main armament	140 mm XM291 (36 rounds)
Secondary armament	50 smoke grenade dischager
Engine	1450-horsepower Cummins turbodiesel
Transmission	Allison DDA X-1100-3B
Suspension	High-hardness-steel torsion bars with rotary shock absorbers
Ground clearance	0.43 m (1 ft 5 in)
Fuel capacity	500 US gallons (1,900 l; 420 imp gal)
Operational range	~426 km (265 mi)[12]
Speed	Road ~ 42 mph (67 km/h) (governed); Off-road: ~ 25 mph (40 km/h)

 

 

source

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Abrams

https://zen.yandex.ru/media/kitchenmag/m1-abrams-cattb-amerikanskii-tank-so-140mm-pushkoi-5af54d4ad7bf21907250ff13

https://soapbox.manywords.press/2017/12/19/m1-cattb/

https://lockheed-martini.tumblr.com/post/171737640969/bmashina-m1-abrams-cattb-with-140-mm-gun

Edited August 30, 2019 by CaID

[leroyonly 4,310]

Open for discussion. 

[Milocat 4,854]

I support these 140mm-cannon tanks!  Bring it on!  +1.

[CaID 8,996]

i also have made some other suggestion for equivalent vehicles in other nation.

 

German

USA

Russia

France

[eleks12 1,079]

+1 when the game reaches at least 11.0

[seadogpirate@psn 888]

gib 140mm of freedom +1

[onemax9000 1,243]

Gib big gun Abrams +1

[kamikazi21358 998]

I say +1, as an event or something (in the future obviously).  I don’t see a place that it would fit in the main line without being incredibly awkward as it is an oddball, and it is a prototype too.

[CaID 8,996]

On 31/08/2019 at 13:33, kamikazi21358 said:

I say +1, as an event or something (in the future obviously).  I don’t see a place that it would fit in the main line without being incredibly awkward as it is an oddball, and it is a prototype too.

as for right now, it could easily fit into the actual tree in the emptiness of the Rank VII. but of course the BR need to be change to allow a higher BR than 10,0.

 

on the other hand, keep in mind this tank do not seem to have any MG. wich i feel it's a real pity. i often used the MG to tell the enemy "please do not shoot, i am reloading"

[Deathbringer007 118]

I like big guns so I'll take it.

[AlexaiTheDrake 123]

please add this. 

[Shaun_Dorrington 325]

I have more photos and information but I would like to say that this tank should have 800-900mms of armor vs KE as its second gen DU armor and it has 50 inches (or 1270MMs) of armor on the front of the turret and 40 inches of armor (1016 MMs)on the side of the turret. the turret roof has 4 inches of armor over the majority of the turret except for over the breach where it has two inches (I'm assuming this is to give it its 10° of gun depression) . the hull should be 600 VS KE  as the prototypes are the only tanks historically to get upgraded hull armor up until SEP V2 sep V3 and The M1A1AIM as the army has always changed their minds during the production phase because of the 70 ton weight limit. the tank also had a laser warning/ counter measure system that would automatically deploy smoke and turn the turret towards the laser threat. the tank also has a significant improvement in the 140 MM APFSDS as of right now it would pen every tank in game with ease. The reload rate was 5-7.5 seconds . it would essentially serve as a heavy tank in the current update of the game the turret ring looks stronger but not strong enough to stop modern APFSDS. the mantlet would probably be the strongest in the game with the large trunion and breach of the 140 MM gun as well as the special armor package. it should be at least 600 with the large amount of special armor/breach and trunion. The ammo in the turret seems to have blow out panels where as the extra ammo in the hull does not but Ill have to confirm this as the M1A2 does have protected stowage in the hull.

sources are  Finite Element Stress Analysis for Component Advanced Technology Test Bed (CATTB) https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a228389.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwis55Wb7drlAhUNJt8KHfItAToQFjAaegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw1JwJ8SQLlyLgBbDY-mthSC

and the International Defence Review 12/90 

Spoiler

 

 

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source for the armor is below it is states side top and frontal armor as well as the planned density 550LB per foot for the side armor and 750LB per foot for the frontal armor 

Spoiler

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

Spoiler

 

its important to not that this talks about two separate vehicles one is the TTB paragraphs 1-3 and the other is the CATTB

Spoiler

 

Edited November 8, 2019 by Shaun_Dorrington
more info

[FORMATOSE 901]

 

 

[Solarmod 1,203]

This is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen. I need it badly. +1 from me.

[zedisdeadbaby 83]

Ive been waiting for the 140mm nato guns , I know they were tested on the leo 2s and the swiss tank also as wells as the challenger 2 .

 

I think the M1 thumper is much sexier than the CATTB however .

I suppose the Soviet equivalent would be the Object 292 .

One thing I find interesting or odd about the m1 thumper is most of these prototype tanks from this era are/were left in very poor conditions but it seems the m1 thumper has been maintained for some reason . 

 

The 140mm is a huge shell casing looks twice as long as the 120s .

 

 

 

[armando30 493]

I follow anything that is tank-related and recently I've found an article on the CATTB (the same place where there's also an article on the TTB) and it completely changed my perspective about how to balance the CATTB

lots of armor

autoloader (8~12 rounds per minute)

140mm barrel can be swaped for a 120mm so that it can fire standard 120mm ammo

special 120mm version of the gun with a advanced propellant type producing between 30~50% more energy than the standard 120mm smoothbore

 

since then  can only see the CATTB as something that BR-wise would go between the M1A2 and one of the SEP versions of the M1A2 (maybe even the latest)

 

and then we get the Thumper, basically the XM803 of the CATTB program, basically the cost-effective version of the CATTB program with the 120mm version of the gun (the basic version, not the advanced version) and a lot less technology than the CATTB, still with a autoloader and armor comparable to the basic M1A2

 

On 18/11/2019 at 15:46, zedisdeadbaby said:

The 140mm is a huge shell casing looks twice as long as the 120s .

 

yep, and that is why its 3-piece ammo

the CATTB used a autoloader but apparently could only carry 22 rounds of 140mm ammo

 

off-topic but sort of on-topic: why did everyone choose to play around with 140mm guns? I mean, they feared the possibility of the Soviets fielding a MBT with a 152mm canon, why not re-develop the MBT-70 gun? also, why is it that the French always arrive late? I believe the Leclerc T4 is the most recent tank to equip a 140mm cannon, about a decade later than the others

[Alan_Tovarishch 860]

Nice match for Obj 195

 

Seriously, highly unlikely any of these are coming.

Edited December 2, 2019 by Alan_Tovarishch

[CaID 8,996]

1 hour ago, Alan_Tovarishch said:

Nice match for Obj 195

 

Seriously, highly unlikely any of these are coming.

for a guy with 13,000 battle, you surely lack of memory. no longer than 4 month ago, they say the same thing about the chinese. and before it was about the jet with after burner, and before about the modern MBT and before was about the addition of France, and before was about the addition of german Mauss and E-100.

 

so far, everything that was denied was eventually added. so what is unlikely not coming are likely to be consider one day or another. expecially when they look to improve their tree by the higher rank and less in the lower one. a rank 8 would allow premium for the rank 7 and vehicles with modern counter ATGM system and depleted uranium shells and improved firepower and Armour would soon make the M1a1 look weak. (the M1A2C for example with the 120mm, new shells and trophy anti-missile system, or the Leclerc with the Titanium armour)

[Alan_Tovarishch 860]

@CaID i don't know where you get that i think this or that. But if you care about my opinion, then know that i'm convinced that it's easier that M1A2C or T-14 are much more probable than Obj 195, CATTB, the Leo 2 with 140mm gun, etc. And even then, if (and it's a big if) those vehicles get added, it's not gonna be any time soon.

[armando30 493]

5 hours ago, Alan_Tovarishch said:

@CaID i don't know where you get that i think this or that. But if you care about my opinion, then know that i'm convinced that it's easier that M1A2C or T-14 are much more probable than Obj 195, CATTB, the Leo 2 with 140mm gun, etc. And even then, if (and it's a big if) those vehicles get added, it's not gonna be any time soon.

 

sorry to "burst your bubble" but you are wrong, full details about the M1A2C or T-14 are still mostly a secret, meanwhile all of those machines are from the late 80's to early 90's (Leclerc T4), as usually time goes by and bits of info start to leak out when it has been decided those things are not worth the effort to make, generally speaking it should be easier for them to learn about these older machines than the new ones, especially because these new machines have things like Active Protection Systems that they try to keep a secret so that the potential enemies cannot devise a counter for them

[Alan_Tovarishch 860]

On 04/12/2019 at 19:14, armando30 said:

 

sorry to "burst your bubble" but you are wrong, full details about the M1A2C or T-14 are still mostly a secret, meanwhile all of those machines are from the late 80's to early 90's (Leclerc T4), as usually time goes by and bits of info start to leak out when it has been decided those things are not worth the effort to make, generally speaking it should be easier for them to learn about these older machines than the new ones, especially because these new machines have things like Active Protection Systems that they try to keep a secret so that the potential enemies cannot devise a counter for them

 

This one lacks reading comprehension. I will quote myself:

 

On 04/12/2019 at 13:55, Alan_Tovarishch said:

 And even then, if (and it's a big if) those vehicles get added, it's not gonna be any time soon.

 

And to be clear, there is much less availability of data for M1 CATTB or Obj 195 than for M1A2C and T-14. 

Edited December 6, 2019 by Alan_Tovarishch

[armando30 493]

let me quote myself, I mean yourself:

 

37 minutes ago, Alan_Tovarishch said:

This one lacks reading comprehension

 

did you not write the following

 

On 04/12/2019 at 16:55, Alan_Tovarishch said:

then know that i'm convinced that it's easier that M1A2C or T-14 are much more probable than Obj 195, CATTB, the Leo 2 with 140mm gun, etc

 

so what exactly did I write?

I remember, I wrote that it is MUCH MUCH EASIER for them to add the CATTB or Obj.195 than a M1A2C or T-14 that are at the VERY START of their service life and thus most details about them are tightly kept in secret

 

I really wonder who lacks «reading comprehension», particularly because I did not mention how soon they could be added and much less implied you wrote the M1A2C and T-14 could be added much quicker than the others

[Alan_Tovarishch 860]

Dude, right after that i also wrote:  And even then, if (and it's a big if) those vehicles get added, it's not gonna be any time soon. And that's the second time i quote myself! If more explanations are necessary, i write again: we know much more stuff about T-14 and M1A2C than about CATTB, Obj 195 and so on.

[Sanebynight7130@live 59]

On 30/11/2019 at 01:56, armando30 said:

I follow anything that is tank-related and recently I've found an article on the CATTB (the same place where there's also an article on the TTB) and it completely changed my perspective about how to balance the CATTB

lots of armor

autoloader (8~12 rounds per minute)

140mm barrel can be swaped for a 120mm so that it can fire standard 120mm ammo

special 120mm version of the gun with a advanced propellant type producing between 30~50% more energy than the standard 120mm smoothbore

 

since then  can only see the CATTB as something that BR-wise would go between the M1A2 and one of the SEP versions of the M1A2 (maybe even the latest)

 

and then we get the Thumper, basically the XM803 of the CATTB program, basically the cost-effective version of the CATTB program with the 120mm version of the gun (the basic version, not the advanced version) and a lot less technology than the CATTB, still with a autoloader and armor comparable to the basic M1A2

 

 

yep, and that is why its 3-piece ammo

the CATTB used a autoloader but apparently could only carry 22 rounds of 140mm ammo

 

off-topic but sort of on-topic: why did everyone choose to play around with 140mm guns? I mean, they feared the possibility of the Soviets fielding a MBT with a 152mm canon, why not re-develop the MBT-70 gun? also, why is it that the French always arrive late? I believe the Leclerc T4 is the most recent tank to equip a 140mm cannon, about a decade later than the others

Isnt the MBT-70s gun more comparable to the L7 105 ? Their apfsds is around the same weight and velocity . Though from what I can tell the MBT-70s gun does that while being 4ft shorter .

 

Wouldnt the object 292 be more comparable ? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPf6Ejn7_wo

 

 

[Kocyra 5,742]

Maybe it could penetrate T-14 when we get there