Radial Engine 109s, the X-0, and V-21

[Solarmod 1,203]

Like the fiSK 199, I have had a heck of a time finding sources, so be prepared for mediocrity

(History of the V-21 with the radial 1938-1939)

It isn't really well known, or understood why the Messerschmitt company decided to make a radial engined Bf 109, one argument is that it was designed for export, so that there wasn't other countries vying to buy the DB 601 powerplant. Another theory is that they wanted to compete with the at the time in development Focke Wulf 190, and wanted to sell Germany a fighter using the same engine.

 

What is known, however, is that in 1938, the V-21, used for the Development of the E-series airframe, was modified to take a BMW 139, a direct copy of the Pratt & Whitney Twin Wasp (R-1830). A new forward fuselage was made from frame no. 6 forwards, enabling the equipping of the radial engine. A new canopy was fitted, quite similar to the Me 262's canopy. The V-21 first flew in 1939, it's fate is unknown.

(A photo of the Bf 109 V-21, equipped with the radial engine)

 

(History of the X-0, 1940-1942)

The second 109 to be equipped with a radial engine was from a modified F-1 airframe (Werknummer 5608, callsign D-ITXP), fitted with a modified fuselage similar to the V-21 when it was equipped with the BMW 139 (again, a Pratt and Whitney 1830 clone). The airframe was modified differently, though, having a wider cross-secton, a canopy similar, if not identical to the V-21's canopy, and wingtips akin to that of the BF-109E, instead of the F-1. This prototype first flew under the control of Flugkapitän Fritz Wendel, on September 2, 1940. The flight tests were continued despite the issues caused by the BMW 801A, and development was ended in early 1942, like the V-21, it's fate is unknown, likely scrapped, and destroyed. A sad fate for an interesting prototype.

 

(Specs)

Normally, now we'd go into specifications of both aircraft, but because I can't get a proper sheet for either, but according to reddit, (yes, I had to dig that deep to find anything on these) Flight data does exist at Erprobungsstelle Rechlin, but again, I cannot be sure, and as I don't speak German, I can't get information reliably. I would speculate, but that's not of the nature of this suggestion, so instead, I shall post the flight data for the E-1, and the F-1, and if someone can get the complete flight data, I will gladly accept it.

 

(E-1, the basis for the V-21)

Crew: 1 Person

Take-off weight: 2.7T

(speculative) Armament: 4x 7.92mm MG-17 (3000 Rds)

 

(F-1, the basis for the X-0)

Crew: 1 Person

Take-off weight: 3.0T

(Speculative) Armament: 2x7.92mm MG 17 (1000 Rds)

 

Picture(s):

(V-21)

(Bf-109X-0, model photographs)

 

(yeah there's not many photos of these things)

 

Conclusion:

I think these planes could be added in to the early part of the Focke Wulf line, allowing the He-100 to be added to rank 1, and allowing for a sensible line in general. Though it may make more sense to have these be premiums, or gift vehicles.

 

 

(Sources)

http://me109.airwar1946.nl/

http://www.germanaircraftwwii.org/2015/02/messerschmitt-bf-109x.html

https://www.scalehobbyist.com/manufacturers/RS_Models/Model_Aircraft/me-bf-109x-experimental-fighter/RSM00092051/product.php?photo=12&type=alternatives

(Questionably sources? Found via deep digging)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/farinihouseoflove/2210640332

Die Deutsche Luftwaffe, Willy Messerschmitt

Klassiker der Luftfahrt(?)

 

Any further sources would be more than welcome, I spent months debating whether or not I had enough to work with to make this happen.

 

Edited October 4, 2020 by Solarmod
Extra photo removed

[leroyonly 4,310]

Open for discussion. 

[Ghostmaxi 872]

Sounds somewhat interesting, even tho I am not interested in planes that much.

But I also am interested in fight data

[Solarmod 1,203]

1 hour ago, Ghostmaxi said:

Sounds somewhat interesting, even tho I am not interested in planes that much.

But I also am interested in fight data

You're wholly welcome to help find it haha.

2 hours ago, leroyonly said:

Open for discussion. 

Thanks o7

[Milocat 4,849]

+1, I'd like to see at least one of these odd bois.

[TeaParty4622 301]

I'm curious how this thread could be approved.

[Solarmod 1,203]

9 hours ago, Neptune42 said:

I'm curious how this thread could be approved.

I am as well, honestly. I spent about 4 hours with all the sources and that's all I could dig up. In english, anyways. e.e

[Z3r0_ 4,127]

My issue with this is that Gaijin would have to give it completely fictitious armament in order to make it combat capable, likely a pair of MG 17s and a pair of MG FF/Ms.

[TeaParty4622 301]

8 hours ago, Solarmod said:

17 hours ago, Neptune42 said:

I'm curious how this thread could be approved.

I am as well, honestly. I spent about 4 hours with all the sources and that's all I could dig up. In english, anyways. e.e

Anyone can dig up with just some photos and make claim "GIMMIE DHAT KOOL THING". You had to postpone your suggestion thread before you've got acquired actual specification datas.

[Solarmod 1,203]

22 hours ago, Neptune42 said:

Anyone can dig up with just some photos and make claim "GIMMIE DHAT KOOL THING". You had to postpone your suggestion thread before you've got acquired actual specification datas.

I dug up more than photos, if I'm honest. If you'd actually read the suggestion, I did as much research as I can with the time I have in the day 

[TeaParty4622 301]

6 hours ago, Solarmod said:

I dug up more than photos, if I'm honest. If you'd actually read the suggestion, I did as much research as I can with the time I have in the day 

This thread needed to be in historical discussion not the aircraft suggestion.

 

 

[Solarmod 1,203]

12 hours ago, Neptune42 said:

This thread needed to be in historical discussion not the aircraft suggestion.

 

 

And you need to stop being such a cynic. I have actual sources, and I'm actually currently waiting on books I bought the other day so I have more. Please, just give it a -1, and leave the thread. You're not going to have me delete the thread, and you're just looking like an imbecile trying to make me do so, this has the right to be here as much as the FiSk 199, and I'd say moreso than half the paper planes suggested in this forum, go attack them if you're really desiring to be a "crusader", these vehicles were built and tested, and flown for that matter, they have as much of a reason to be here as weird german 1 off paper designs that the designers were doing in 45 that people keep asking for in game, these actually were built, and flown. So the data IS out there, I just need to wait for some books. Your continued effort to "BUT MY PRIDE I DONT WANT THIS IN GAME" is invalid, and honestly, is just wasted effort. Thank you for your feedback, and I have not listened to it. 

Edited October 11, 2020 by Solarmod
Clarity, and brutal honesty.

[TeaParty4622 301]

3 hours ago, Solarmod said:

And you need to stop being such a cynic. I have actual sources, and I'm actually currently waiting on books I bought the other day so I have more. Please, just give it a -1, and leave the thread. You're not going to have me delete the thread, and you're just looking like an imbecile trying to make me do so, this has the right to be here as much as the FiSk 199, and I'd say moreso than half the paper planes suggested in this forum, go attack them if you're really desiring to be a "crusader", these vehicles were built and tested, and flown for that matter, they have as much of a reason to be here as weird german 1 off paper designs that the designers were doing in 45 that people keep asking for in game, these actually were built, and flown. So the data IS out there, I just need to wait for some books. Your continued effort to "BUT MY PRIDE I DONT WANT THIS IN GAME" is invalid, and honestly, is just wasted effort. Thank you for your feedback, and I have not listened to it. 

Same as those paper aircrafts, if there are no actual flight performance charts, thread will left as thread itself. Nothing will be added.

 

Okay as you are the one matter with the pride, "BUT MY PRIDE I WON'T DISREGARD IT EVEN IF THERE ARE ONLY PHOTOS LEFT",

 

 

 

 

 

 

-1

[Solarmod 1,203]

5 hours ago, Neptune42 said:

Same as those paper aircrafts, if there are no actual flight performance charts, thread will left as thread itself. Nothing will be added.

 

Okay as you are the one matter with the pride, "BUT MY PRIDE I WON'T DISREGARD IT EVEN IF THERE ARE ONLY PHOTOS LEFT",

-1

Thank you for finally saying your opinion, instead of continuing this pointless argument. You've wasted my time, your own time, and the people of the thread's time, so go away, shoo. You aren't adding anything by being a cynic here. 

Edited October 12, 2020 by Solarmod
Cleaned their space.

[january19 57]

+1

[you_cant_seeme 19]

where on reddit did you look? Im doing research for my own suggestions (can barely find anything, its so painful)

[Solarmod 1,203]

7 hours ago, you_cant_seeme said:

where on reddit did you look? Im doing research for my own suggestions (can barely find anything, its so painful)

I had been digging for months and I found an archived war thunder post that said that he had found information existed at an air field

[you_cant_seeme 19]

22 hours ago, Solarmod said:

I had been digging for months and I found an archived war thunder post that said that he had found information existed at an air field

ok, so in other words, good luck me

i swear with the amount of information on it, the project might as well still be classified and held by the government

 

but thanks anyway :P

 

Edited February 4, 2021 by you_cant_seeme

[Solarmod 1,203]

On 04/02/2021 at 10:16, you_cant_seeme said:

ok, so in other words, good luck me

i swear with the amount of information on it, the project might as well still be classified and held by the government

 

but thanks anyway :P

 

Sorry I couldn't help better

[Solarmod 1,203]

Thanks to my connections with German friends, I will hopefully be getting some actual stats about these aircraft soon. I'm gonna have one of my friends translate a letter of inquiry to the place that, reportedly, still holds data sheets. So I may have even more to share in the coming months! o7 

[Chomusuke1 1,217]

 

 

 

Edited July 6, 2021 by Chomusuke1

[Solarmod 1,203]

On 05/07/2021 at 23:40, Chomusuke1 said:

 

 

 

Thanks!

[january19 57]

+1

[_Chiquita_ 27]

This radial engine Bf109 is described in detail by these sites.

https://www.flugrevue.de/klassiker/geheimnisvolle-versuche-messerschmitts-tests-der-bf-109-mit-sternmotoren/#

https://adl-luftfahrthistorik.de/dok/messerschmitt-bf-109-x-mit-sternmotor.pdf

 

I'm also going to compile all the currently known photos and drawings of the Bf109V21 and Bf109X here.

Spoiler

Bf109V21

Spoiler

Bf109X

 

 

 

I also recently discovered a little-known photo of the Bf 109 V21. I'll try to post it here soon.

Edited December 30, 2021 by _Chiquita_

[Solarmod 1,203]

5 hours ago, _Chiquita_ said:

This radial engine Bf109 is described in detail by these sites.

https://www.flugrevue.de/klassiker/geheimnisvolle-versuche-messerschmitts-tests-der-bf-109-mit-sternmotoren/#

https://adl-luftfahrthistorik.de/dok/messerschmitt-bf-109-x-mit-sternmotor.pdf

 

I'm also going to compile all the currently known photos and drawings of the Bf109V21 and Bf109X here.

Hide contents

Bf109V21

Hide contents

Bf109X

 

I also recently discovered a little-known photo of the Bf 109 V21. I'll try to post it here soon.

Oh thank you! I appreciate these!