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Tank Suggestion T26E4 Super Pershing

Drakhma

By Drakhma,
in Implemented Suggestions

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Drakhma

Drakhma 15

Posted

id like to make the suggestion of the T26E4 Super Pershing Tank.

World of Tanks has it, but i think gaijin can do it better, and id have more fun with it in Warthunder.

its in my opinion that the tank if added should be a premium tank and a more expensive one. and id probably buy it.

 

220px-Super_pershing.jpg

The so-called "Super Pershing" before extra armor welded on. Note length of barrel, 73 calibers, to compete with the 88 mm KwK 43 L/71 gun of the Tiger II.

 

 

The 90-mm M3 gun of the Pershing was similar to the German 88 mm KwK 36 used on the Tiger I. In an effort to match the firepower of the Tiger II's more powerful 88 mm KwK43, the T15E1 90 mm gun was developed and mounted in a T26E1 in January 1945. This tank was designated T26E1-1. The T15E1 gun was 73 calibers in length and had a much longer high-capacity chamber. This gave it a muzzle velocity of 3,750 ft/s (1,140 m/s) with the T30E16 APCR shot and could penetrate the Panther's frontal armor at up to 2,600 yd (2,400 m). This model used single-piece 50-inch-long (1,300 mm) ammunition and was the only Super Pershing sent to Europe.

A second pilot tank was converted from a T26E3 and used a modified T15E2 gun that had two-piece ammunition. Twenty five of these tanks were built and designated as the T26E4. An improved mounting removed the need for stabilizer springs.[33]

Post-war, two M26 tanks had the T54 gun installed, which had the same long gun barrel, but the ammunition cartridge was designed to be shorter and fatter, while still retaining the propellant force of the original round. They also had the muzzle brake and bore evacuator from the M3A1 gun of the M26A1 and M46. The tanks were designated as the M26E1 tank, but lack of funds cut off further production.

 

220px-M26_Super_Pershing.jpg

 

M26 "Super Pershing" after arriving in Europe and having extra frontal armor added.

 

A single Super Pershing was shipped to Europe and given additional armor to the gun mantlet and front hull by the maintenance unit before being assigned to one of the tank crews of the Third Armored Division. The front hull was given two 38 mm steel boiler plates, bringing the front up to 38+38+102 mm of armour. The plates were applied at a greater slope than the underlying original hull plate it was welded on top of. The turret had 88mm thick RHA from a Panther turret welded to the gun barrel covering the front. An account of the combat actions of this tank appeared in the war memoir Another River, Another Town, by John P. Irwin, who was the tank gunner. Zaloga described three actions in his book. On 4 April, the Super Pershing engaged and destroyed a German tank, or something resembling a tank, at a range of 1,500 yd (1,400 m). On 12 April, the Super Pershing claimed a German tank of unknown type. On 21 April, the Super Pershing was involved in a short-range tank duel with a German tank. The engagement was a brief encounter. The German tank missed the initial shot. The Super Pershing responded with a quick shot, but it had fired a high explosive round which had no effect on the German tank. The crew then apparently felt something slam into the turret mantlet, although it is unknown whether this was a shot from the German tank or it was from another anti-tank weapon of some sort. The Super Pershing then knocked it out with a shot to the belly as the German tank tried to climb over a pile of rubble. Irwin described this German tank as a Tiger II, but Zaloga was skeptical of this claim, as there was a very small number of Tiger II tanks in Western Europe in 1945.[49][50] After the war, the single Super Pershing in Europe was last photographed in a vehicle dump in Kassel, Germany, and was most likely scrapped

 

superpershing.jpg

SZ24Jan08_014.jpg

hUc7YK5.png

 

93007.jpg

 

SOURCES

 

http://www.3ad.com/history/wwll/feature.pages/super.pershing.1.htm

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M26_Pershing

 

this covers most info

 

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http://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/2juzm5/t26e4_super_pershing_1024x389/

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http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/05/30/how-the-super-pershing-got-that-super-to-its-name/

 

gives detail and some more information of the tank its additions.

 

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http://fhsw.wikia.com/wiki/T26E4_%22Super_Pershing%22

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http://www.firstdivisionmuseum.org/museum/exhibits/tankpark/t26e4.aspx

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http://panzerserra.blogspot.com/2012/03/t26e1-later-t26e4-super-pershing.html

 

-------------------------------------------PICS----------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.militarymodelling.com/sites/1/images/article_images/SZ24Jan08_014.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/hUc7YK5.png

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-kQrZGR6Vu1k/U8bI_9RYJXI/AAAAAAAALjw/_fCnFO3dP9M/s1600/superpershing.jpg

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http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/75838-previously-suggested-ideas-please-read-before-posting/

 

this has listed suggestions of tanks and it does not have T26E4 , T26E4 Super Pershing, Super Pershing or M26 Super pershing.

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i dont want to list WoT as a source but i have to as it does give Some detail on the tank

 

http://worldoftanks.eu/encyclopedia/vehicles/usa/t26_e4_superpershing/

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https://books.google.com/books?id=oCfVHe4h5FcC&pg=PT3&lpg=PT3&dq=Another+River,+Another+Town,+by+John+P.+Irwin&source=bl&ots=-pqGXvA2ZS&sig=FQwJvKAh2SBcnxdM9m52dZU3tRY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=esjZVKb8J8zagwTX1IDACA&ved=0CEYQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=Another%20River%2C%20Another%20Town%2C%20by%20John%20P.%20Irwin&f=false

another.river.jpg

 

i had to re do this page 4 times because my browser decided to fuck with me 3 times and the 4rth time i accidently closed it.

 

i also could not find this vehicle dump the tank was last seen in. 

"the single Super Pershing in Europe was last photographed in a vehicle dump in Kassel, Germany, and was most likely scrapped"

 

yup not much detail on its grave.

  • Upvote 15

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JygerHuntt

JygerHuntt 46

Posted (edited)

I  agree with u that this is a cool tank I love it and I want it in game but why do u fury fans keep lying that super pershing saw king tiger and killed it this never happened this is a big lie it never saw king tiger and an american made up this fake story and u know waht the funny thing is another american denied it and said this never happened that really Embarassing and if u want sources use google if u really want to know the truth u will find it.

Edited by JaiggerHuntt

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mistomaxo

mistomaxo 446

Posted (edited)

what quality of steel would that boiler plate stuff be ingame? rha? enhanced hardness? structural steel? does the "name" of the armor have any ingame effect?

 

as a unique machine that actually saw some degree of action, i guess its prem material, but its br would likely be boosted much up over the regular pershing

 

what would happen if its coil springs (the big tubes on the turret roof) received a hit? gun disabled, or accuracy loss, or what?

 

the fact that it was scrapped is problematic, no way to precisely double-check the extra armor values.

 

you also say "A second pilot tank was converted from a T26E3 and used a modified T15E2 gun that had two-piece ammunition. Twenty five of these tanks were built and designated as the T26E4. An improved mounting removed the need for stabilizer springs." would these additional machines, presumably without the unique armor upgrade, also have a place?

Edited by mistomaxo

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NKato

NKato 664

Posted

what quality of steel would that boiler plate stuff be ingame? rha? enhanced hardness? structural steel? does the "name" of the armor have any ingame effect?

 

as a unique machine that actually saw some degree of action, i guess its prem material, but its br would likely be boosted much up over the regular pershing

 

what would happen if its coil springs (the big tubes on the turret roof) received a hit? gun disabled, or accuracy loss, or what?

 

the fact that it was scrapped is problematic, no way to precisely double-check the extra armor values.

 

you also say "A second pilot tank was converted from a T26E3 and used a modified T15E2 gun that had two-piece ammunition. Twenty five of these tanks were built and designated as the T26E4. An improved mounting removed the need for stabilizer springs." would these additional machines, presumably without the unique armor upgrade, also have a place?

 

It's the same steel you find on the German Panther Ausf A through G. Basically, when the Super Pershing arrived in Europe, they cut up some abandoned/wrecked Panthers and used their steel for its hull and mantlet armor.

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KB_TheDireWolf

KB_TheDireWolf 700

Posted

Yep: http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/205623-t26e4-1-super-pershing/?hl=+t26e4 (if the T26E4-1 SP is not the quite same as the T26E4 SP in this suggestion, then sorry)

Well I was going to post a suggestion but the one you just linked beat me to it and they merged my post into it.

T26E4-1 "Super Pershing"


Super_pershing.jpg


002.jpg


The T26E4-1 "Super Pershing" with out field mods



Stats



Weight


46 short tons (41.7 t)



After Field Mods


48.7t



Armor


Upper hull & Turret Mantlet = 102mm = RHA


Lower hull and turret sides= 76mm = RHA


Hull sides = 50 to 75mm = RHA



After Field Mods


Turret Mantlet = 182mm = RHA


Hull= 38+38+102 = Spaced Steel Boiler Plate + Spaced Steel Boiler Plate + RHA


Lower hull and turret sides= 76mm = RHA


Hull sides = 50 to 75mm = RHA



Main Armament


T15E1 90 mm gun


Secondary Armament


2 × Browning .30-06



Engine


Ford GAF; 8-cylinder, gasoline



450–500 hp (340–370 kW)


Suspension
torsion bar

Operational range
100 mi (160 km)

Speed
25 mph (40 km/h) (road)
5.25 mph (8.45 km/h)(off-road)

After Field Mods
20 mph (30 km/h) (road)
5.25 mph (8.45 km/h)(off-road)

T26E4-SuperPershing.jpg
Field Moded T26E4-1 (With out "Ears")

T26E1.jpg
Field Moded T26E4-1 (With "Ears")







Background



[font='comic sans ms']The Super Pershing (aka T26E4-1) was equipped with a new long-barreled T15E1 90mm gun that was designed to out-perform the German high-velocity 88 mm KwK43 on the King Tiger, Jagdpanther, Panzerjäger Tiger (P) etc. In testing, this new U.S. gun had successfully penetrated 8.5 inches (

215.9mm)[font='comic sans ms'] of armor at 1,000 yards at 30 degrees. Even more remarkable, it had penetrated 13 inches (330mm) of armor at 100 yards. The special 90mm ammunition had produced a muzzle velocity of 3,850 feet per second, or some 600 feet per second faster than the 88mm of the King Tiger. The new 90mm round also proved to have superior range and accuracy over the previous version. Only two Super Pershings were ever built, and the 3AD had the only one in the European Theater - an experimental version with its remarkably long barrel. Arriving very late in the war (March, 1945), it was field tested and modified inside Germany and subsequently saw about ten days of actual combat action, beginning several days after the Battle of Paderborn and ending with the Battle of Dessau near the Elbe River.[/font][/font]
[font=helvetica]



[font='comic sans ms']In mid-March, 1945, fresh from gunnery trials in the United States, a single Pershing T26E4-1 arrived at the Maintenance Battalion of the 3rd Armored Division inside Germany. In his book Death Traps Belton Cooper (Only part of [/font][font='comic sans ms']Death Traps thats really true is of the T26E4-1 since Cooper in fact worked on it)[/font][font='comic sans ms'] writes, "Having already lost several of the new [Pershing] M26's [aka T26] to high-velocity German anti-tank guns, we knew that its armor was still inferior to that of the Mark VI Tiger."[/font]

[font='comic sans ms']Cooper writes, "Anyone standing behind an M4 Sherman could see the projectile go out and curve down slightly as it sped toward the target. This new high-velocity gun was entirely different. When we fired the first round, we could barely see the projectile. It appeared to rise slightly as it struck the target. This was an optical illusion, but the effect was awesome. When it hit the target (a knocked out German Jagdpanzer IV, The shell went straight through the [/font][font='comic sans ms']Jagdpanzer IV even though its engine block and dug itself about 10ft in the ground), sparks shot about sixty feet into the air, as though a giant grinding wheel had hit a piece of metal."[/font]

[font='comic sans ms']Cooper described how, despite the 3AD maintenance crew painstakingly and very creatively adding seven tons of weight in additional armor to the Super Pershing, its highest speed had only been dropped by about five miles an hour. Its 550-horsepower engine had proven itself. Cooper felt that the tank's maneuverability and firepower had it marked for great success in combat. "We realized that we had a weapon," Cooper writes, "that could blast the hell out of even the most powerful German Mark VI Tiger."[/font]

[/font]

[font=helvetica]

Source: 3rd Armored Division Association Website: http://www.3ad.com/h....pershing.1.htm .

[/font]
[font=helvetica]

Cross Check with wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia....#Super_Pershing

[/font]

[font=helvetica]

Combat

[/font]
[font=helvetica]

[font='comic sans ms']On April 4, 1945, between the Weser River and Northheim, the Super Pershing was to fire its gun in anger. Cooper writes, "Some of the German units that had fallen back from the bridgehead set up a few isolated strong points along our route. One such position on a wooded hill ... opened fire as the column passed. The Super M26, in the forward part of the column, immediately swung its turret to the right and fired an armor-piercing shot toward an object on the forward slope of a wooded hill about fifteen hundred yards away [over three-quarters of a mile]. A blinding flash of sparks accompanied a tremendous explosion as debris shot fifty feet into the air ... The unknown object was a tank or self-propelled gun; had it been a half-track or other vehicle, the flash would not have been as large ... The rest of the column let go with a deluge of tank and automatic weapons fire, and the Germans soon broke off the action ... we didn't know what the Super M26 hit ... no one was anxious to go over and check it out." [/font]

[/font]

[font=helvetica]

[font='comic sans ms']On 12 April, the Super Pershing claimed a German tank of unknown type.[/font]

[/font]

[font=helvetica]

[font='comic sans ms']On 21 April The 3AD had begun a four-pronged attack on the city of Dessau, which was heavily defended.[/font][font='comic sans ms'] The Super Pershing was involved in a short-range tank duel with a German tank. The engagement was a brief encounter. The German tank missed the initial shot. The Super Pershing responded with a quick shot, but it had fired a high explosive round which had no effect on the German tank. The crew then apparently felt something slam into the turret mantlet, although it is unknown whether this was a shot from the German tank or it was from another anti-tank weapon of some sort. The Super Pershing then knocked it out with a shot to the belly as the German tank tried to climb over a pile of rubble. Irwin described this German tank as a Tiger II, but Zaloga was skeptical of this claim, as there was a very small number of Tiger II tanks in Western Europe in 1945.[/font] [font='comic sans ms']The battle for Dessau would end completely on the following day, but not without the Super Pershing destroying another German heavy tank (believed to be a 50-ton Panther Mark V) with two shots. The first disabling its drive sprocket, and the second round completely penetrating the tank's side armor. That apparently set off an internal blast, again probably from stored ammo. And, still in Dessau, that was followed by Maduri and crew forcing the commander of a German medium tank to surrender without firing a shot. For the German crew, out of ammo for their main gun, the intimidating "look" of that long-barrel 90mm gun that must have destroyed any remaining will to fight or flee.[/font]

[/font]

[font=helvetica]

[font='comic sans ms']After the war, the single Super Pershing in Europe was last photographed in a vehicle dump in Kassel, Germany, and was most likely scrapped.[/font]

[/font]
[font=helvetica]


Source: 3rd Armored Division Association Website: http://www.3ad.com/h....pershing.1.htm .
Cross Check with wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia....#Super_Pershing

[/font]
  • Upvote 2
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_Katyusha_

_Katyusha_ 1,829

Posted (edited)

I  agree with u that this is a cool tank I love it and I want it in game but why do u fury fans keep lying that super pershing saw king tiger and killed it this never happened this is a big lie it never saw king tiger and an american made up this fake story and u know waht the funny thing is another american denied it and said this never happened that really Embarassing and if u want sources use google if u really want to know the truth u will find it.

The story isn't entirely made up, in that we do know a German tank did engage one Super Pershing. However, contrary to how the story is often told, with a SP fighting a Tiger II, the truth is less dramatic.  

 

During the battle for Dassau, one of the two SP prototypes stumbled across a lone German tank. The record varies at this point, with some like Belton Cooper (who can't be trusted to be accurate) saying it was a Tiger II, while others say it was most likely a Panther.  One after action report I remember reading noted that it's entirely possible it was neither of those, but instead either a captured T34, or possibly even a Panzer IV of some make, given the relative ease that the SP managed to punch through the side armor plate.

 

Edit:

It's worth noting that the "Elephant Ears" on the side of the added on armor on the turret, weren't there to provide any armoring (though yes, they did.) rather, they were counter weights to help balance out the weight added to the mantlet.

Edited by _Katyusha_
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JygerHuntt

JygerHuntt 46

Posted

The story isn't entirely made up, in that we do know a German tank did engage one Super Pershing. However, contrary to how the story is often told, with a SP fighting a Tiger II, the truth is less dramatic.  

 

During the battle for Dassau, one of the two SP prototypes stumbled across a lone German tank. The record varies at this point, with some like Belton Cooper (who can't be trusted to be accurate) saying it was a Tiger II, while others say it was most likely a Panther.  One after action report I remember reading noted that it's entirely possible it was neither of those, but instead either a captured T34, or possibly even a Panzer IV of some make, given the relative ease that the SP managed to punch through the side armor plate.

 

Edit:

It's worth noting that the "Elephant Ears" on the side of the added on armor on the turret, weren't there to provide any armoring (though yes, they did.) rather, they were counter weights to help balance out the weight added to the mantlet.

now this I like just the truth man ur right u say I ain't biased but I don't like fantasy stories just to disrespect king tiger to make it like this tank was a king tiger killer okay it is strong and armored and maybe face a panzer 4 or a panther but please no need for drama u feel man.

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sanspareil

sanspareil 93

Posted

I like it. It's such and over the top, it will add some colour to the otherwise bland USA tanks.

 

It's a fascinating machine actually. Think of the desperation there must have been felt in order to come up with something so jury-rigged.

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Abgeschossene

Abgeschossene 10,084

Posted

I like it. It's such and over the top, it will add some colour to the otherwise bland USA tanks.

 

It's a fascinating machine actually. Think of the desperation there must have been felt in order to come up with something so jury-rigged.

 

Desperation?

 

What?

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ValkyrieLitewing

ValkyrieLitewing 1,659

Posted

I'm sure this has been suggested before but still, I agree with it. It will probably be an overpriced premium that costs an arm and a leg to afford anyway, but still a cool tank to see in this game and it would be a freakin beast too. It would be pretty impenetrable in most cases.

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