Tanks/Vehicles 90mm M18 Hellcat (aka Super Hellcat)

[MillyTealy 4,141]

 

It existed in metal, it has been tested as functional. It has been cancelled after the war, just alike T28/95.

There's nothing complicated about it. They put the turret off M36 aka Jackson (already in the game) onto hull of the M18 aka Hellcat (already in the game) with minimal modification to any of it. It's trivial to put it into the game from both modelling and gameplay point of view, because all the resources are already here.

 

See also: http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/104863-m18-super-hellcat/

 

In 1944 The M18 had an experimental variant developed, the hellcat's turret was removed and replaced with the M36 Jackson's turret to house the 90mm gun from the Jackson as well.

 

Testing showed that even with the sizable turret on the small hull of the M18, speed performance did not suffer, however the larger gun, had massive recoil when fired, even with the muzzle brake added, the tank would bounce back almost 2 feet when it fired. and when fired from the side, it would shake the hull and crew inside.

 

Sadly the war had already ended before the "Super" Hellcat could be put to use.

 

This would make a nice addition to the tank destroyers for the Americans once they are released, personally I would like it to be part of the main tree, and not a premium. Perhaps Rank IV would be best for this one.

[CokeSpray 7,274]

Open for discussion.  :salute:

[Grand_Moff_Tano 3,460]

I'd say BR wise, somewhere in between the Jackson and Hellcat, but at Tier IV, I'd agree on  it being Premium.

[Rutland 6,255]

no way lower than 7.0 BR.

[Juliet_Six 13,981]

I'd say BR wise, somewhere in between the Jackson and Hellcat, but at Tier IV, I'd agree on  it being Premium.

I'd say no

[Tuskegee_Soul 1,090]

Mobility of a hellcat, M3 90mm of the M26 and Jackson, yet chuckles up there ^ - Wants it at a 7.0 BR. Someone is bent out of shape at the M18.

 

Regardless if this were a premium would buy it without question. However, I'd rather see it in the main tree. It'd be no more fubar than the Panther II, KT105, Kugelblitz or even the T32 and T95

 

Put this right beside the Jackson, Same BR, let people pick the slightly better armor or paper thin mobility. (That being if the Jackson is put at 6.0-6.3 as so many are throwing a fit for)

 

But haha what do I know, It should be a 7.0 BR Q-Q

Edited May 7, 2015 by Tuskegee_Soul

[Grand_Moff_Tano 3,460]

Mobility of a hellcat, M3 90mm of the M26 and Jackson, yet chuckles up there ^ - Wants it at a 7.0 BR. Someone is bent out of shape at the M18.

 

Regardless if this were a premium would buy it without question. However, I'd rather see it in the main tree. It'd be no more fubar than the Panther II, KT105, Kugelblitz or even the T32 and T95

 

Put this right beside the Jackson, Same BR, let people pick the slightly better armor or paper thin mobility. (That being if the Jackson is put at 6.0-6.3 as so many are throwing a fit for)

 

But haha what do I know, It should be a 7.0 BR Q-Q

I don't think it's as Mobile or as Fast as the regular M18, I mean, that Jackson turret is much heavier than the M18's normal turret.

[Tuskegee_Soul 1,090]

I don't think it's as Mobile or as Fast as the regular M18, I mean, that Jackson turret is much heavier than the M18's normal turret.

"The vehicle weighed 43,075 lbs without stowage, about 3,000 lbs more than a standard M18.

The first thing they did, after the obligatory photographs and measuring, was to drive the vehicle around for a bit. Aberdeen reported, “[T]he performance of the vehicle was not noticeably affected by this small increase in weight; however, due to the shift in the center of gravity, the rear of the vehicle rode lower than the front.” --The Chieftan's Hatch

 

Granted I have no idea how credible this guy is or anything but if you aren't one to turn your nose up at WoT Articles  there's this which according to him the 90mm M18 was mentioned in hunnicuts but never elaborated on in detail? http://worldoftanks.com/en/news/pc-browser/21/The_chieftains_Hatch_M1890/

 

To many they're gonna see that, throw a fit about WoT, say no and yadda yadda get bent. but based solely on what you said, 'apparently' (Take it with a grain of salt) There were miniscule difference in how the M18 handled, my guess is it would be a bit slower in reverse and a smidge slower in getting up to speed but for the most part it should still feel and perform like a hellcat with a bit more boom for the buck and that 9.1 second reload for an aced crew as we've come to expect from the 90mm M3 in Warthunder as opposed to what I affectionately call the spam cannon that is the M1A1 with a 5 second reload with an Aced crew.

 

Slower reload, possibly more sluggiesh hellcat with arguably twice the boom with M82 shot. For the fans of American armor like myself, what's not to love.

 

But as stated before everything written up there, is to be taken with a grain of salt. I personally don't know, don't shoot the messenger.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Tuskegee_Soul

[Rutland 6,255]

M82 is a mini nuke with great penetration. Attaching that to a hellcat and playing RB without markers shouldn't be legal.

[SgtBreastCannon 2,320]

M82 is a mini nuke with great penetration. Attaching that to a hellcat and playing RB without markers shouldn't be legal.

Doesn't mean it should be at 7.0. Not until all the end tier tanks are at least 9.0 and above.

[*musay69 1,163]

Add it! 

[MillyTealy 4,141]

TBH if it gets the recently added 320 pen HEAT M47 got then it can be 8.0 for all I care. I just want it in the game. Rank doesn't matter..

[Tuskegee_Soul 1,090]

M82 is a mini nuke with great penetration. Attaching that to a hellcat and playing RB without markers shouldn't be legal.

Don't you take this away from me. It'd be like putting a 105mm on a King TIger. Does it really need it? No, but damn it I'm gonna enjoy it regardless.

[P8triot 3,894]

There is worse stuff currently in game.  This was an actual vehicle and the components of it are already in game on other vehicles.  I would think it would suffer in the br since it would be a more mobile 90mm(regardless of armor since a lot of upper br vehicles can one shot virtually everything regardless of armor anyway)

 

Introduce it without the muzzle brake and that would be super fun!

[Tuskegee_Soul 1,090]

What's the beef people have with the muzzle break, it looks better that way >:T

[MillyTealy 4,141]

What's the beef people have with the muzzle break, it looks better that way >:T

Honestly I also prefer guns with muzzlebrakes but the idea of the hellcat sliding around as you shoot it sounds way too funny to me.

[Grand_Moff_Tano 3,460]

Perhaps the Muzzle break can be used as an Upgrade option, with the ability to remove it if you don't want it on your tank, no muzzle brake also means less muzzle flash.

[Tuskegee_Soul 1,090]

So that people can have more reason to complain about not being able to see Hellcats before they get shot~

[Grand_Moff_Tano 3,460]

So that people can have more reason to complain about not being able to see Hellcats before they get shot~

Not really, there would still be a muzzle flash, and even then, you would have a fair idea where you were shot from, if said shot doesn't kill you ofc.

Edited May 7, 2015 by PikachuTrainer

[Tuskegee_Soul 1,090]

An M18 firing M82 shot at a BR equal to the Jackson would be hard pressed not to one kill if not crit an enemy tank so badly, it'd be amazing if they could even return fire.

[Grand_Moff_Tano 3,460]

An M18 firing M82 shot at a BR equal to the Jackson would be hard pressed not to one kill if not crit an enemy tank so badly, it'd be amazing if they could even return fire.

True, but anythings possible.

[Solid_Snake01 974]

Yes Please.

[P8triot 3,894]

What's the beef people have with the muzzle break, it looks better that way >:T

no beef with it.  In OP post documentation Aberdeen tech states that when gun was fired while orientated to the side, the vehicle shook violently from the recoil.  The muzzle brake alieviated most of it.  I just thought it would be great fun to shoot it without the muzzle brake( some thing I always liked about the Zis-30 was the shaking from firing)   :crazy:

[Deathbringer007 118]

I like +1

[Sharpe85 342]

I have literally no idea how this vehicle can be balanced in-game.

Just observe how the M18 76mm dominates BR 4.7 since its release, even after the ROF nerf.

Furthermore, the addition of this vehicle makes the M36 effectively useless.

The M36 has a valid place in this game, it was historically widely used and is a well balanced TD in its BR.

The super Hellcat is not needed, or wanted for balance reasons.

 

I am against its addition.