Add Some of the early M48 Series Medium tanks for US, and possibly Germany

[Conraire 5,722]

Trying to add a poll for those that have b een asking for it.

 

Did a forum search on these forums, and didn't find it already suggested, at least not in an area I can read. 

 

I would like to suggest the addition of the M48 tank series to the US tier 5 line at around 8.0 BR.  These would be the approximately equal counterpart to the Russian T-54/55 series tanks.  If at all possible, I'd love to see the M48, M48A1, and M48A2, as those all fit within timely before the M60's. 

 

The 90mm Gun Tank M48 "Patton 48"

Should immediately follow the M47 at 8.0 BR. 

While it uses a similar 90mm gun it has a very different armor profile when compared to the M47.  There's no bow machine gun, which eliminates that weak spot, it's a completely sloped and elliptical front hull.  The turret also has a vastly different armor profile, this can already be seen with the M60 recently added to the game, as the M60 uses the same turret as the M48 series just with a bigger gun and newer T9 cupola.

 

90mm Gun tank M48 "Patton 48"

[sharedmedia=core:attachments:99923]

 

 

M48 Datasheet from Hunnicutt's Patton, Pg 428

 

 

The M48A1,

Could be right after the base M48, or in a shared collapse folder.  Alternatively, these could be given to the German tree, as this is the version the US preferred for shipment over seas, etc..  The only major difference between the two, is the Turret Cupola on the M48A1.  Instead of using the standard cupola of the base M48/M47, it uses the M1 Cupola with internal Machine gun mount.  Which gives it a mildly different turret weak point profile than the base M48. 

 

90mm Gun tank M48A1

[sharedmedia=core:attachments:99924]

 

Data Sheet for M48A1 From Hunnicutt's Patton, Pg 429

 

 

The M48A2 or M48A2C,

Should follow the previous models.  These were standardized in Oct, 1955 and 1958.  Most of the differences are internal, with a new engine and transmission, along with more fuel tanks giving extra range.  The turret also incorporated a new Cadillac Gage controls turret drive, new ballistic drive, etc, on later models.  The A2 also had increased ammo stowage, 64 instead of 60.  Increased top speed, 30mph instead of 28mph.  Also to note, late production M48A2's around the time that the M60 were being designed.  Were upgraded with the Diesel engine, and CD-850-6 transmission used in the production M60's.  These were the M48A2E1's.  The M60 itself is based almost directly off of the M48A2C. 

 

Historically speaking, this would also be the first to use the T300e58/M431 HEAT-FS round.  But, since the T-54's also have later versions of Heat, it can remain on earlier tanks that could fire it for balance reasons. 

 

 

M48A2 Datasheet from Hunnicutt's Patton, Pg 434

 

Other Reasons to add the M48.  The 90mm M41 Gun had a unique round available for it, that wasn't made available to the 90mm M36 gun in the M47's.  90mm T142e3 HEP-T, first available in 1952 with Comp A-3 Plastic explosive, and in the late 50's a half inch internal nose pad to increase spalling performance vs vertical armor. 

 

Some information regarding US HEP-T Shells, mostly about the 90mm T142e3 shell.

http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/254489-information-on-us-hep-t-shells-report-numbers-etc-need-more-info/

 

Information on the M41 90mm Gun and mount

Edited December 26, 2015 by Conraire

[CokeSpray 7,270]

Open for discussion.  :salute:

[TheLifeGuard 453]

Good idea!

[Daddo2 328]

I agree with addition of this for US, but not for Germany, because if Gaijin starts giving Germany US tanks, they'll also have to add Russian tanks like T-55. That would cause as ridiculous situation as is currently in German Aviation... MiG-15 bis and CL-13A Sabre side by side. Gaijin would have to somehow separate German forces to East-German and West-German... If you know what I mean...

[Conraire 5,722]

I agree with addition of this for US, but not for Germany, because if Gaijin starts giving Germany US tanks, they'll also have to add Russian tanks like T-55. That would cause as ridiculous situation as is currently in German Aviation... MiG-15 bis and CL-13A Sabre side by side. Gaijin would have to somehow separate German forces to East-German and West-German... If you know what I mean...

 

Well, the alternative for Germany is non existent paper tanks, or non production prototypes, of their tree's more or less end at 7.0 with their real indigenous designs.  I'd personally prefer for them to get what they actually had, even if it had some copy paste feel involved.  At least with what they actually had between the Tiger II, and Leopard I gap, there's no worry of balancing something with no real known stats like rof, etc.

 

Lets not argue about the semantics though.  Mostly suggesting for the US tree ;). 

 

=========================================================================================================================================================================

Re-purposing this post for images from the manual for the M48 and M48A1.

 

 

Edited October 26, 2015 by Conraire

[Naam54673 1,537]

+1.Add a poll.

[Stuka_Hunter 3,408]

+1 for American part, -1 on German part. Germany will get E series someday and copy pasting isnt really the way to go. So, after I did the math, 1-1=0, so you get 0 from me. ;)

[Naam54673 1,537]

+1 for American part, -1 on German part. Germany will get E series someday and copy pasting isnt really the way to go. So, after I did the math, 1-1=0, so you get 0 from me. ;)

E-series doesn't get M431 and wasn't used by the german army.And it was rejected by the devs.

[Thiky 2,162]

+1  :salute:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wibbV2j2IyU

 

It could have been better, if the M48 is the first before the M60, but I understand too, that need an American pole against the Leopard 1 and the T54.

 

the solution

M48A5 with a 105mm M68 gun

"This last upgrade was a major one, raising the firepower of the M48 to the M60 standard. This modification was accepted in october 1975 and applied to 2069 remaining M48s from the previous versions, including the A3, by the Anniston Army Depot."

Edited February 7, 2016 by Thiky

[Conraire 5,722]

Added a simple poll to the thread for those that have been asking for one ;).

[Thiky 2,162]

"Should the M47 and M48's that the German's used be added to their tree, between the Panther II and Leopard I?"

Good idea!  :salute:

 

 

M48A2C

Edited July 12, 2015 by Thiky

[Tanaj 1,406]

I'm for all three, especially West German models.

 

inb4 "muh copypaste tanks :(((("

[_Sync 1,028]

+1 I don't see why not?

[Conraire 5,722]

Anyone else care to weigh in on this topic?

[Retry 7,363]

Yes to the M48, yes to the german versions, but I think the Panther II should diverge into three lines: Leopard, Patton, and T-54.  

[Conraire 5,722]

Bumping one last time, to see if anyone else wants to vote or comment.  Also edited to add data sheets for the variants themselves, as well as one for the Gun. 

Edited July 15, 2015 by Conraire

[ACR_1990_N64@psn 258]

I always want to play with more US vehicles. +1 = D 

[Conraire 5,722]

Added a link to the thread I made with info on the 90mm HEP-T round T142e3.  Had made the thread some time before this suggestion.  Easier to just link to it than to copy paste the whole thing. 

[Volger50616 119]

Yes for the addition of the M48 to the american and german tree. No for the addition of the A4 and A5, this tanks are too modern for now. I Gaijin decides to add modern tanks, adding several modern tanks at the same time, I will strongly support the late Pattons. And I think we all should wait and see how the british tanks behave in this game, not sure which tanks are being added soon but the Centurion was really modern for its time, I believe this tank will make german tank players lose control of ourselves  :Ds  :facepalm2:

[Conraire 5,722]

Yes for the addition of the M48 to the american and german tree. No for the addition of the A4 and A5, this tanks are too modern for now. I Gaijin decides to add modern tanks, adding several modern tanks at the same time, I will strongly support the late Pattons. And I think we all should wait and see how the british tanks behave in this game, not sure which tanks are being added soon but the Centurion was really modern for its time, I believe this tank will make german tank players lose control of ourselves  :Ds  :facepalm2:

 

Yeah, I'm the same way on the A3 and A5's.  Granted all the A3 is, are base M48's and A1's upgraded with the M60's power and drive train.  The A5 wasn't done till the 70s though.  Just figured I'd put the option to for for them there just in case. 

 

Late model Centurion, and the Chieftain should be nasty.  Conqueror just looks scary, especially if they put that in to counter the T-10m. 

[ustinodj 5,952]

Would rather have them add an M48, and then switch the current M60 to M60A1. (Current M60 is basically an M48 with the L7 gun)

[Daddo2 328]

Well, the alternative for Germany is non existent paper tanks, or non production prototypes, of their tree's more or less end at 7.0 with their real indigenous designs.  I'd personally prefer for them to get what they actually had, even if it had some copy paste feel involved.  At least with what they actually had between the Tiger II, and Leopard I gap, there's no worry of balancing something with no real known stats like rof, etc.

 

Lets not argue about the semantics though.  Mostly suggesting for the US tree ;). 

Well the problem is, that foreign tanks in German tech tree would cause serious problems in RB. In SB you would have to create the event with T-55s in a team with Russian tanks and M48s etc. in a team with US tanks, but Planes would be very funny to divide (except MiG-15bis and Sabre, because those are obvious)

I'd rather see more Leopard variants, Kanonenjagdpanzer etc.

[Naam54673 1,537]

Well the problem is, that foreign tanks in German tech tree would cause serious problems in RB. 

RB is a minority.

[BertTheTurtle 670]

+1 // The M41 also for the german tree.

 

@Daddo2: The USSR have the premium M4. In SB events you can filter what tanks are allowed. Otherwise... shoot ask later ;)

Edited July 25, 2015 by Bullvey

[Daddo2 328]

RB is a minority.

 

1. definitely more played than SB...
2. even if it is not as popular as AB (because it's less noob-friendly) you can't forget any game mode

 

 

+1 // The M41 also for the german tree.

 

@Daddo2: The USSR have the premium M4. In SB events you can filter what tanks are allowed. Otherwise... shoot ask later ;)

 

OFC I know about USSR premium M4 Sherman and that is the reason why I don't want the tanks of one nation in other nation's tree... When I play US around 5.0 BR in RB, my teammates are always dumb enough to consider USSR M4 as a teammate even if we are actually fighting against USSR and they get themselves killed so easily...

 

The conclusion is the same... adding Russian and/or US tanks to German tech tree is solution only for AB.