Aircraft/Loadouts Grumman F6F-5 and F6F-5N Hellcat

[slowblade 389]

Hi, I am suggesting some pretty nice low tier Naval planes, which one of them has a cannons as American planes lack cannons.

 

 

Specifications

 

Type: (F6F-5) Naval fighter (F6F-5N) Night-fighter

Crew: 1

Number built: (F6F-5) About 5,000 (F6F-5N) 1,500+

Length: 33ft 7in (10.24m)

Wingspan: 42ft 10in (13.06m)

Height: 13ft 1in (3.99m)

Engine: One Pratt & Whitney R-2800-10W radial engine generating 2,200hp

Max speed: 380mph (621kph)

Range: 945 miles (1,520km)

Max altitude: 37,300ft (11,370m)

Empty weight: 9,238Ib (4,190kg)

Max take-off weight: 15,415Ib (6,990kg)

 

Armament and ordnance

 

Armament: (F6F-5) Six 12.7mm M2 machine guns (400rpg) (F6F-5N) Two 20mm AN/M2 cannons (225rpg) and four 12.7mm M2 machine guns (400rpg)

Bombload: Either one 2,000Ib (907kg) bomb, two 1,000Ib (450kg) bombs, four 500Ib (227kg) bombs and eight 250Ib (110kg)

Torpedo: One Mark 13-3 torpedo

Rockets: Six 127mm HVAR rockets or two 298mm 'Tiny Tim' anti-ship rockets

 

The right wing of the F6F-5N had a dome housing a APS-6 radar

 

 

F6F-5

 

Especially with the delays in the F4U program, the US Navy needed a superior carrier-based fighter in 1942-43. The Hellcat filled the bill. On average, it flew 55 MPH faster than the Zero; at about 20,000 feet it was 70 MPH faster. At altitudes in excess of 10,000 feet, it had a comparable rate of climb. At all altitudes, due to its heavier weight and greater power, it could out-dive the A6M. (This was generally true of American fighters; in a tough spot, the pilots could nose over, firewall the throttle, and zoom down.) The '-5' closely resembled the '-3.' It had some extra armor, stronger main gear legs, spring tabs on the ailerons (for better maneuverability), and most of them had water-injection engines (the R-2800-10W). Both versions had 250 gallons capacity in internal tanks and a 150 gallon belly drop-tank.

 

 

F6F-5N

 

The Navy saw the need for night fighters and started the Project Affirm program in early 1942, originally with Corsairs equipped with primitive AI (Air Interception) radar sets built by MIT engineers. In 1943, the Hellcat emerged as the preferred night fighter because of its easier landing characteristics and greater stability as a gun platform. The F6F-5N was the definitive night-fighting version of the Hellcat, over 1500 of these built by Grumman.

 

 

Sources
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_F6F_Hellcat

http://acepilots.com/planes/f6f_hellcat.html

 

Thanks for reading!
 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 19, 2015 by slowblade

[CokeSpray 7,272]

Open for discussion. :Salute:

 

However,baring in mind that the F6F-5 is already on the release tree for the USAF,this suggestion will be treated as a suggestion for the F6F-5N.

Make sure to check the release trees before submitting a new suggestion.

[Stryker232 174]

+1 to adding more hellcats

[Z3r0_ 4,127]

Sure thing, I'll support adding the F6F-5N.

[FloatplaneRammer 1,736]

+1

[SmartSkull007 2,990]

I'll support this, but preferably give the f6f-5 a battle rating of 5.7, and the f6f-5fn a battle rating of 6.3 - I am not even trolling. F6F-5FN should face the N1K-2J Shiden, if it's battle rating is put there, maybe the F2H Banshee will be raised up to 7.7 where it belongs. I am also sick of clubbing pre 1940s planes with the f6f-3.

F6F-5 and 5N are not 5.7 and 6.3 material. Perhaps in AB, definitely not RB or SB. 

The 5 and 5N should be 5.0 max.

[Garfield_Pilot 1,596]

Sure, but that huge pimple on the wing will cost performance. If we had nigh fighting implemented in the game (where radar equipment gave a benefit) I would definitely say yes.

[MercedesBenzW123 8,535]

Spring tabs and better engines? Sure

[SmartSkull007 2,990]

So the N1K is okay at 6.3?

The N1K entered operational service at about the same time as the f6f-5, so same br would be right.

or the n1k gets moved down to 5.3 and then we can talk about f6f-5 having a br of 5.0 max

anyways they had excellent dive speeds in real life, almost as good as those of jets I reckon, and definitely deserve to face planes better than early mid war props.

F6F-5 is not 6.0 material. This game DOES NOT NEED A MM BY DATES. Performance would be better. If you honestly think that the F6F-5 can compete with the N1K, then... What?

[charlienatorFL 8]

I think The F6F-5N should be BR 3.7 because comparing it to other planes, for example I-16 type 27 has X2 20mm ShVAC, X2 2 7.62mm ShKAS, and a really good turn time, The F6F-5N will have X2 20mm AN/M2, X4 M2 Brownings, and wont have as good of turn time. I think the extra fire power on the machine guns is compensated by the slower turn time because you can't hit what you can't get a aim on, a few more example planes of this BR is the A6M2 and Spitfire Mk IIb. That is why I think it should have a BR of 3.7

[Retry 7,363]

So the N1K is okay at 6.3?

 

The N1K entered operational service at about the same time as the f6f-5, so same br would be right.

 

or the n1k gets moved down to 5.3 and then we can talk about f6f-5 having a br of 5.0 max

 

anyways they had excellent dive speeds in real life, almost as good as those of jets I reckon, and definitely deserve to face planes better than early mid war props.

You have 200 battles under your belt and don't actually have an idea of how the N1K (or the Ki-84 for that matter).

 

That, or you're an alt and you somehow still don't get the high-tier meta.

 

The N1K2-J and Ja are good.  Really good, honestly.  Perhaps not 6.3 good, but they certainly don't get clubbed there and actually have a reputation as jet killers.  If down-tiered, they probably wouldn't go lower than 5.7 minimum (doubtful: the Yak-9UT is also at 5.7 and is hands-down inferior to the N1K2), and even then there's the N1K4 prototype that could easily fit at 6.3.

 

You reckon wrong with the jet thing, very wrong.  The Hellcat isn't even that good of a diver.  Those huge lift-producing wings produce an incredible amount of drag which slows the vehicle considerably in dives and in level flight.  It also locks up quite a bit at the speeds it can reach.  The Corsair is a different story, having both high dive speeds and very good controllability, and would easily dispatch the Hellcat in a 1v1.  The Hellcat basically made its living by being just a bit faster and just a bit better BnZer than the Zeke, its most common opponent.

 

The Hellcat is fine at mid-war BR-wise.  The plane historically was behind the performance curve at its introduction and fares poorly to mid-war equipment that isn't a zero from everyone else (And in-game, Zeroes too!), including the LF.IX Spitfire, Typhoon 1B/L, Yak-3, La-7, Bf109F-4, Fw190A, Ki-43-III, Ki-100 (not yet implemented), F4U Corsair, and P-63 Kingcobra.

[男の娘 108]

+1 Always love taking a break from jets and flying low tier planes!

[fufubear 6,705]

I think The F6F-5N should be BR 3.7 because comparing it to other planes, for example I-16 type 27 has X2 20mm ShVAC, X2 2 7.62mm ShKAS, and a really good turn time, The F6F-5N will have X2 20mm AN/M2, X4 M2 Brownings, and wont have as good of turn time. I think the extra fire power on the machine guns is compensated by the slower turn time because you can't hit what you can't get a aim on, a few more example planes of this BR is the A6M2 and Spitfire Mk IIb. That is why I think it should have a BR of 3.7

It's too fast for 3.7 as it can do around 560 kph at sea level. It's a 4.3-5.0 plane.

[Delta_48 471]

Sure, but that huge pimple on the wing will cost performance. If we had nigh fighting implemented in the game (where radar equipment gave a benefit) I would definitely say yes.

and when they fix the lighting in night battles

[Retry 7,363]

It's too fast for 3.7 as it can do around 560 kph at sea level. It's a 4.3-5.0 plane.

Actually, it only hits 547 mph at Sea Level.

 

The Bf109 F-4, also at 3.7, is usually faster than the F6F-5 past sea level, climbs better, and has overall superior flight characteristics.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Retry

[fufubear 6,705]

Well I guess the hellcat is a lot worse of a plane than I thought it was.

[Z3r0_ 4,127]

Actually, it only hits 547 mph at Sea Level.

 

The Bf109 F-4, also at 3.7, is usually faster than the F6F-5 past sea level, climbs better, and has overall superior flight characteristics.

 

You mean Km/h.  547 mph is the kind of speed you'd expect to see from a jet. :Ps

[Z3r0_ 4,127]

Then I will get an F6F-5 (when/if it gets added of course) and you can get a N1K-2J, and you can enjoy it while I club the **** out of you with BnZ

Then I will unlock the F2H and troll you harder in ur N1k

 

Did you quote yourself?  Seriously?

 

Also, I HIGHLY doubt you'll be clubbing anybody, seeing how many Allied jet pilots try to turnfight with props even though by the time they get a jet they no longer have ANY excuse for turnfighting with a slower aircraft.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Z3r0_

[Stronk_Memes 111]

Yeah, these would be great additions! IMO, the -5 Hellcat should have been added a while ago. The -3 is very lonely right now. The -5N should prove interesting to fly too.

[SmartSkull007 2,990]

Then I will get an F6F-5 (when/if it gets added of course) and you can get a N1K-2J, and you can enjoy it while I club the **** out of you with BnZ

Then I will unlock the F2H and troll you harder in ur N1k

I'll use the bloody J2M2 against your precious F6F-5.
I'd like to see you try and club me in RB. I'll take a FW 190 A-1 against your F6F-5. I'd still win by a large margin.

BnZ is the road to free SL (and spades)

BnZ

BnZ

Usually your teammates all die though, and being the last pilot with an IQ of more than 50, you can either climb to high alt, and BnZ them while they climb up to intercept you, or simply hide at high alt.

Can`t wait to combat R2Y2s when i get the Banshee :D

Edit: Don't dive & then TnB (turn and burn)

Can't wait until you rage because of 8.0 compression...
Chances are that the player you BnZ will be better then you, and drag you down low for their friendlies to finish off. You've got what, 300 battles now?
I'd still club you.
Performance =/= Dates.
The FW 190 A-3/U7 would have comparable, and would beat some 1944 prop fighters, despite only being built in 1942.

[SmartSkull007 2,990]

Why would a hellcat fly at sea level :facepalm:
I thought USN pilots were taught to start at higher altitude and BnZ their opponents.

Because speed is important...? Sometimes speed is no replacement for maneuverability, and vice versa.
It doesn't matter what people tell you, each aircraft will commonly be caught out of their comfort zone. It's good to know what your plane can and can't do in that situation.

If ur smart u watch ur altitude, if not you burn all ur altitude and become a brick, if you can't maintain ur speed & altitude while BnZ, go grind UK or Japan, or USSR.

F6F-5 has better engine =/= better rate of climb but it will outdive the j2m unless the j2m is the ufo that a lot of allied pilots are complaining it is.

Meh, would rather fight fw-190d-9s, might actually be historically accurate.

Performance =/= Dates.
Most of the time most Allied teams are below me. I almost never have to watch my altitude.

[Z3r0_ 4,127]

BnZ is the road to free SL (and spades)

 

BnZ

 

BnZ

 

Usually your teammates all die though, and being the last pilot with an IQ of more than 50, you can either climb to high alt, and BnZ them while they climb up to intercept you, or simply hide at high alt.

 

Can`t wait to combat R2Y2s when i get the Banshee :D

 

Edit: Don't dive & then TnB (turn and burn)

 

But plz, if you can't raise all hellcat br to 5.0+ at least make my hellcat br 5.0+, so i can troll allied jet nubs who still turnfight. (as well as bouncing 20 mm + 50 cal :D)

 

Have fun fighting MiGs then.

[SmartSkull007 2,990]

I sideclimb though...

Also, btw, if i want to play bomber escort with a plane that has good climb + dive which is the best plane tree to grind?

Can I copy your Lassar sig?

Well; F8F-1(/B) is good since America has to deal with bomber spam. For Japan I'd recommend one of the J2Ms. Basically test around at every plane. What you want is a plane that can climb, and has a good top speed since bombers both spawn at altitude and speed, where the fighters are at ground and not moving.
For the sig, go for it! You can ask Lassar in his thread to make one for you however.

[fufubear 6,705]

People like these suggest the F6F is balanced at 3.3.....

The Hellcat was one of the best at diving (barring the xxxx rocket thunderbolt which has no right to sit at 3.0 either), so it should be able to dive fight vs. n1k

It also turned quite well compared to european fighters (please don't compare european fighter turnrate to pacific fighter turnrate, it turned poorly vs. Zeke (cuz what other than the ki-43 outturns the Zeke?), but would outturn FW-190Ds and Bf-109 Gs.) So therefore superior dive+turnrate+durability=capability to fight vs. european fighters.

Against FW-190D, one must simply turnfight, or use the 50 cal flamethrowers to rip it to pieces once he has passed you.

Also, could someone please get a source on the Hellcat dive rate? (it's not a personal offence - but the hellcat does weigh 10 000 lbs empty, vs. the 8800 lbs of the ki-45 heavy fighter and the 7700 lbs of the Fw-190D-9) I really am curious on how well it would dive like IRL

Lastly, can you please state what problems the f6f-5 has with facing the Fw-190D-9, it does hold several advantages like low alt performance, turnrate, dive, durability. It is much more balanced than F6F-5 vs A6M-5

Would like to see P-47D + P-51H + F6F-5 vs A6M-8 + N1K2-J + Ki-84, certainly seems the most balanced matchup.

P.s., the N1K2-J dives too well and doesn't turn well enough. It's also not fast enough in flat lines and does not retain energy well enough in turns.

Hellcat wasn't actually good at diving (and neither was the p47 at low altitude). Starting from low speeds the Hellcat would he trouble escaping zeros.

The hellcat didn't turn all that well either. It stiffened at higher speeds and had a relatively high stall speed.

A hellcat is free food for a 190D.

Weight does not matter much in a dive drag is the major factor. The hellcat is draggy as fuck.

The Hellcat is slower, climbs worse, dives worse, and rolls worse. It is only slightly better at instantaneous turns but will most likely lose in sustained turns because of its poor acceleration.

P51H is not balanced with any prop in the game currently.

Do you have a source for your n1k claims?

[Retry 7,363]

 

People like these suggest the F6F is balanced at 3.3.....

You haven't played more than 200 matches of War Thunder, you don't appear to have a basic understanding of aerodynamics and we're responding to the absolute nonsense of the "5.7 F6F-5", not commenting on its balance at 3.3.

 

The Hellcat was one of the best at diving (barring the xxxx rocket thunderbolt which has no right to sit at 3.0 either), so it should be able to dive fight vs. n1k

The Hellcat wasn't a particularly special diver.  The diving club belongs to a select group of fighters like the Fw190A/D and F4U.  The N1K2 can hang with the Hellcat for extended periods at minimum, and has similar dive controllability.  As far as Japan goes, the J2M and Ki-84 actually have better controllability in a dive.

 

It also turned quite well compared to european fighters (please don't compare european fighter turnrate to pacific fighter turnrate, it turned poorly vs. Zeke (cuz what other than the ki-43 outturns the Zeke?), but would outturn FW-190Ds and Bf-109 Gs.) So therefore superior dive+turnrate+durability=capability to fight vs. european fighters.

The 5.7 Tempest and Griffon Mk.22, and Fw190D-9 are European fighters with superior dive to the Hellcat -5.  Vertical maneuverability is extremely poor in comparison to the Bf109 and most other european fighters.  The Hellcat's climb rate is inferior across the board with the exception of specific heavy fighters.  Acceleration is, by extension of its top speed and climb rate inferiority, worse than almost every single late european fighter.  Many European fighters, such as the Merlin Spitfires (4.3 for the LF), Yak-3 (4.3), and Bf109F-4 (3.7) can usually at minimum match the Hellcat in the horizontal and completely trounce in the vertical.  Durability doesn't matter a whole lot except in Arcade, and even in arcade very little survives the massive number of 20mm cannons (or mineshells in the case of the Germans) the typical European fighter can bring to bear.

 

Against FW-190D, one must simply turnfight, or use the 50 cal flamethrowers to rip it to pieces once he has passed you.

You do realize this is about the same excuse that is used to justify the P-47M facing A6M5 Zekes?

 

Also, could someone please get a source on the Hellcat dive rate? I really am curious on how well it would dive like IRL

No direct source for this since no one really bothered to measure it.  It can be derived by comparing other relevant aerodynamic properties which can be estimated based on provided data such as that in a SAC or ACP.

 

It would be really nice if we could raise the BR of the Hellcat (which right now has the payload options of f6f-5) to 5.3, and then decompress the battle ratings of the Zeroes.

First of all, it's carrying the correct payload options.

 

Second, we don't need to murder the Hellcat to decompress the Zeke.

 

Lastly, can you please state what problems the f6f-5 has with facing the Fw-190D-9, it does hold several advantages like low alt performance, turnrate, dive, durability. It is much more balanced than F6F-5 vs A6M-5

The Fw190D-9 has the advantage in low altitude performance.  359mph with increased boost and 367mph with methanol injection (basically WEP) at sea level.  The F6F-5N has a top speed at sea level of 340mph with WEP and 332mph with military power.  The Fw190D-9 also climbs and accelerates more quickly than the Hellcat.

 

Turn rate?  Heh, that's cute.  Let's see you draw a smart Fw190D-9 into a horizontal turn-fight.  I'll wait.

 

The F6F-5 is a bit heavier than the Fw190D-9, but far smaller and more aerodynamic as evidenced with a much higher speed with a similar engine, which means less drag.  With the high acceleration factor, the Fw190 beats the F6F-5N at all stages of a dive.  It's more controllable in a dive as well and will cut into the Hellcat's trajectory with ease using its roll rate.  If we're talking about the D-13 and its boosted aileron controls, doubly so.

 

 

There's your amazing diver close to the bottom of this graph.  Barely better than the F4F and actually inferior to the P-40 and even the regular wing Spitfire up till ~330mph.  Even the MiG-17, notable for poor roll control, does not envy the Hellcat's roll rate!

 

Durability?  Also cute.

 

 

Would like to see P-47D + P-51H + F6F-5 vs A6M-8 + N1K2-J + Ki-84, certainly seems the most balanced matchup.

The P-51H would have to carry its P-47D and (especially) F6F-5 teammates to club the opposition.  I'm sure it seems like a balanced matchup to someone who's barely played this game.

 

 

P.s., the N1K2-J dives too well and doesn't turn well enough. It's also not fast enough in flat lines and does not retain energy well enough in turns.

If its top speed is off, then its drag is overmodeled.  If its drag is overmodeled, it should have a dive rate higher that it is now.

 

 

Are you actually BnZ'ing vs. the Zero or are you turnfighting, I honestly hope that that was a typo, unless the F6F-3 isn't diving well enough you shouldn't be faring poorly against A6M5 Otsu or Ko.

The Hellcat's speed margin exists but 20-30 mph is a fairly small margin, making it somewhat vulnerable to the high speed Zekes when they're not outnumbering and outskilling them like they historically did.  The F4U-1's ~50-70 mph margin is far more suited to Zeke popping.

 

The most advanced version of the Hellcat, the XF6F-6, uses a new engine and a four-bladed prop, is about 30 to 40 mph faster than the F6F-5.  Even putting this at 5.7 is a stretch, and any higher is inconceivable.