Tanks/Vehicles Independent Japanese Ground Forces - A Suggestion

[Mai_Waffentrager 9,657]

Japanese Ground Forces - A Thread for their Implementation 

 

 

 

The Current Situation

 

After the general success of the Japanese Ground Forces Community Project thread coupled with the recommendations of multiple community and moderation users, I have decided to go ahead and write up an official suggestion for the implementation of an independent Japanese Ground Forces tree. A large percentage of the community, both on the Forums and Live, have given their support to my project. Despite Gaijin's current idea of a non-independent and incomplete tree for the Japanese Ground Forces; the community have been enthusiastic towards the idea of bringing the project to fruition. The intention of this thread is to get the community's support acknowledged by Gaijin in order to get the much deserved recognition. 

 

Gaijin Developers Konstantin Klimenko and Vyacheslav Bulannikov briefly mentioned Japan in one of their Ground Forces Dev Q&A's not too long ago. They proclaimed that Japan would not receive a tree soon, and that premium tanks would be the likely route. This news was not altogether too disheartening, but just a week before, another developer did say that an independent Japanese Ground Forces tree is unlikely - albeit multiple premiums. Which ever state the official idea for the tree is in right now, it is still far from being something preferred by Japanese tank fans or even the Ground Forces community as a whole. In this thread, I will also be answering your own questions and putting more questions forward to be answered. Through this suggestion thread, a higher level of knowledge can and will be achieved and archived in regards to this currently ongoing project.

 

 

Frequently Asked Questions

 

 

 

"Could you comment on the strengths and weaknesses of the tech tree as a whole?"

 

- Japanese tanks in a general sense are satisfactory in most areas, having a balanced equilibrium. However, they are, when compared to the other nations, one of the less desired groups. Japanese tanks are difficult to master as they require a generally good player who knows his information to utilize them to their properties. Some find this to be the main attractiveness of the Japanese, others a turn off.

 

"Which tanks if any were partially completed?"

 

- In a list of around 93 tree vehicles (not including premiums), a total of 12 of them were prototypes. Of these prototypes, majority of them were completed and tested. Never saw service due to complications. A large portion of these prototypes included are fillers (Tier 5), being models close to their production version in the tree as well. IE the Type74 is in the tree, as well as the STB prototypes similar to the production model. 

 

"What type of tank guns will we see on the Japanese heavy tanks?"

 

- Early tier heavies (1 and 2) generally use standard infantry support guns of the 70mm, 35mm, and 45mm caliber. From there on large howtizer like guns of the 150mm caliber at Tier 3. A high-powered 100mm at Tier 4, and a naval 140mm cannon at Tier 5.

 

"Could you suggest a good source for Japanese tank information beyond Wikipedia?"

 

​- Hara's Japanese Tanks 日本の戦車　原乙未生 is the backbone of most books regarding Japanese tankery. I suggest this to anyone interested.

http://www.amazon.co.jp/日本の戦車-1978年-原-乙未生/dp/B000J8HVO6

 

"Do any of the Japanese heavy tanks seem unbalance for it tier?"

 

​- I think naught. Most of them are fairly balanced per tier. Think of the O-I 150t as a KV-2 thats slightly faster and twice as armoured, but at a tier higher facing opponents far better rounded. The Type4/5 is similar to the Maus, but with a gun relatable to the E100's 15cm.

 

"What are these 'Unreleased' tanks in the Visual tree?"

 

​- These are tanks recently dug up from a collection of archives (after purchased lease to view them), and arent available yet for public eyes. A colleague of mine, David Lister (Listy) is currently working on a book which will include these tanks and their visuals. All in time they will be released. Not to worry, the ones included were built and some serviced.

 

"What will the top speeds of the tanks be like as you move up the tree?"

 

​- For the most part, tanks get faster the higher you progress. End tier tanks are all similar to the Leopards mobility, with the exception of the superheavy. 

 

"Will the HT's be similar to the Mediums in the gun depression department?"

 

​- Yes, they will be. Japanese tanks as a whole all have extremley progressed gun depression and elevation. The best of their kind in this catagory.

 

"Why are there multiple Chi-Ri tanks in your tree, if only one was built?"

 

- While a single chassis was constructed for the Chi-Ri, multiple armaments, engines, turrets, etc were built. Some placed on this chassis and removed for other testing. These represent the other models seen in the tree. 

 

 

Our Website

 

http://japangroundforces.weebly.com

 

 

 

Background

 

It isn't often you see people pay mind towards Japan's ground forces, since they have been long overshadowed by the grand past of the navy or perhaps the graceful nature of the air services.  Modern media has influenced Japan's history regarding their performance in air and sea so greatly that people fail to acknowledge the struggle that the army endured on the ground as the Second Great War ensued. 

 

Unlike the might of battleships and the elegance of the fighters, Japan's tanks were generally quite modest in comparison. The properties given to armored vehicles did not compare to their counterparts. They operated to meet a single goal, never to overachieve their expectations or mark a known place in history. Alongside this, it was not very common for tank-against-tank battles to take place. The war in the Pacific did not grant any tank battles of epic proportions (such as the battle of Kursk) as the generally uneven terrain of the Pacific islands prevented wide scale deployment of armoured vehicles. It was uncommon to see more than 15 armored vehicles skirmishing at the same time. Only on rare occasions did large numbers of tanks engage in combat with one another. This turned out to be advantageous for Japanese tanks, as they were more efficient in the form of infantry support and ideally operated in smaller numbers.

 

It wasn't until after Japan had awakened the sleeping giant that was the United States, that the undeniable reality had become all too real. By 1941,  Japanese armored vehicles had near-reached the peak of their effectiveness.  Up until the Attack of Pearl Harbor, the Japanese had been able to perform effectively with their Type94 37mm anti-tank gun. Potential opponents such as the Stuart, Carden, T-26 and BT tanks were all prone to penetration by the gun in combat. There was no reason to progressively adapt until a threat of a superior force, such as the United States,  reached the shores of the Empire.  The most versatile and effective anti tank gun utilized by the Japanese was the Type1 47mm, used on the Type97 Chi-Ha Kai medium tank. While it was able to get the task done, Japan knew that much more was required if they were to equally match the growing American threat in the Pacific. The U.S. were capable of sending M4 Sherman tanks in force, at a remarkable rate, unrivaled by Japanese production lines.

 

During the year 1943, the Japanese devised a restriction on newly produced tank models. The idea being to hold new Types for stationing around the home islands of Japan for a fortified defense against an allied invasion. Modernized tanks such as the Type3 Chi-Nu and the Type1 Chi-He were never deployed on the front lines, thus holding no official combat record. Other projects, such as the Ha-To or Chi-To were also planned for home defense, yet the United States had already begun bombing raids on the island, crippling the production rates of many armored vehicles. It was for this reason, that Japan's strongest armored vehicles did not have a chance to be fielded and take their rightful place in modern history books.

 

Websites Functions

 

Our goal is to persuade Gaijin through sheer research and evidence, that such a critical power as Japan deserve their rightful spot on the Ground Forces tab, instead of being declined alongside an independent French tech tree. This project will and can only be successful through solid community support. 

With a small team of assistants, this project will eventually flesh out the Japanese Ground Forces section of the official forum. This will give the playerbase a concrete and reliable source of information regarding Japanese tanks.

 

A strong argument against the idea of competitive Japanese tanks is how they can be compared to any other nation in their respective tiering. Japanese tanks can be described as the "jacks of all trades yet masters of none", or in layman's terms, having average qualities in most areas, yet nothing vastly superior to others. They are vehicles that only skilled players can use to proper effectiveness, with the average player possibly finding themselves at a crossroads when they decide to grind down the tree. The introduction of the tanks in Tier 1 are generally mild, compared to competitors. Tier 2 and 3 is where Japan gets vehicles that can actively compete against others, yet lacking substantial armor. The most challenging tier that a Japanese tank player will have to endure will be Tier 4. It is here where Japanese tanks will lack a wide range of selection, relying on their armament and mobility to be effective on the battlefield. However, if players reach Tier 5, Japanese tanks could be said to be "diamonds in the rough",  receiving post-war vehicles and features comparable to that of the German "Leopard 1".

 

 

 

 

 

 

Our Project's Trees

 

 

 

 

Base Tree

 

 

 

 

 

Visual Tree

 

 

 

 

 

 

Production Chart (Google Sheets)

 

[spoiler]

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uhfLVIz2P3Uf9gP8Hins1BgtZNxaic_Jd6lkq57PcBY/edit?usp=sharing

 

[/spoiler]

 

 

 

Members of the Project

 

Project Lead

• Mai_Waffentrager 

 

Moderator Support 

• wotertool 

 

Assistants

• Orlunu

• Priest5000

• blankfile

• Nomad_Gaming 

• Azumazi

 

Posting Assistants

• BananaG0D

• BostonNick

• CmdrNomad

 

 

 Design Aid 

• Currus_loricatus

• Mostafox

 

 

 

Edited December 24, 2015 by Mai_Waffentrager

[Smin1080p 60,444]

Open for Discussion  :salute:

[SupermarioPS 5,374]

More Chaffee is definitely a good thing.
[spoiler]Shamelessly taken from RandomPunch's comment on tamtam.
[/spoiler]

[VirAlly 274]

i vote: i guess i wouldnt mind.

[FredericusRer 5,088]

+100 ^.^

[wotertool 5,062]

And I happily vote "Yes" for it :3

Can't wait to see these tanks in the new Dagor Engine!

[Mai_Waffentrager 9,657]

I would like to honourably mention Currus_loricatus for being the person to take time out of his day to do majority of the work on the Visual tree. 

[Guest]

Yes please! This means the Ki-102 can properly use it's 57mm as well.

[Bringo_Gaboso 3,820]

time for another chinu day ? :Ds

[NojirokazuKuraba 1,206]

I hope we get some good jungle maps to go along.

[CmdNomad 1,396]

"Im CmdNomad and this is my favourite suggestion in the Forum!" :salute:

[clynton1 864]

The higher tier tonks for Japan can easily be Post war japanese defense forces vehicles..

 

I declare my small tankettes bias, i also want my japanese tonks to come with extra shrubbery and foliage as standard !!! :lol: 

[MostaFox 5,190]

Couldn't of said it better myself :^) +1

Edited October 25, 2015 by MostaFox

[blakeob 8,086]

Don't play tanks, but have all my yeses!

[SupermarioPS 5,374]

"Im CmdNomad and this is my favourite suggestion in the Forum!" :salute:

Reference made me giggle which is more than Duke Nukem Forever can say of itself.

[KuroiOtori 1,049]

All my yes since the begining. :kamikadze:

[Saint_StuG 1,282]

Voted

The more the merrier

the Japanese really need some love

[Commando144 697]

I support this because I always wanted to see Japanese tanks in WT but I got a few questions

Is the M4 Sherman In the tree a lend lessed tank or captured? And how big is the O-I? And lastly the Type 61 SPAAG is that gonna be really radar guided? (Due to the thing on the back)

[Mai_Waffentrager 9,657]

I support this because I always wanted to see Japanese tanks in WT but I got a few questions

Is the M4 Sherman In the tree a lend lessed tank or captured? And how big is the O-I? And lastly the Type 61 SPAAG is that gonna be really radar guided? (Due to the thing on the back)

 

1. Legally owned by the JGSDF post war.

2.  10/4.2/2.5 meters (Length/Width/Height) for the O-I 100t without the turret, 11/4.2/4 meters for the O-I 120t. 

3. No, thats from another vehicle and the turret was used to improvise. I'll have that piece removed once Currus is available.

Edited October 25, 2015 by Mai_Waffentrager

[JEI2 5,766]

+1

[Commando144 697]

*Response to Mai about my question*

Sorry using my iPad ATM sometimes quote does not work on here anyways I got a bit worried about the Type 61 SPAAG because it would be a bit overkill

[mistomaxo 446]

japan already has its own tab in the game, and we all know that the tabs switch between ground and air forces, and probably navy in the future, barring signficant reworking of the main menu system. i do not know why anyone thinks its ground tree would not be housed in its tab along with its air?

[Mai_Waffentrager 9,657]

japan already has its own tab in the game, and we all know that the tabs switch between ground and air forces, and probably navy in the future, barring signficant reworking of the main menu system. i do not know why anyone thinks its ground tree would not be housed in its tab along with its air?

 

In order to have a tree you have to fill the requirments, if not then Gaijin will not give them a full tree. Hence why they said the Japanese will have a premium tank only tree in their best case scenario at the moment. This project is to convince them otherwise. 

[Umbriellan 2,986]

 

instead of being declined alongside an independent French tech tree.

 

I cried at this part... defeated but not dead yet.

-------------------------------------------------------

 

A voté !

There is no reason to refuse more japanese history.

 

Today, games like WarThunder serve as a modern history book, for the youngest among us & others. They must introduce these vehicles !

Edited October 25, 2015 by Umbriellan

[mistomaxo 446]

premium tank only tree? how silly, did they really say something as strange as that? i thought better of them. maybe some of the brs may prove a little sparse, but theres enough material for a tree, not a huge one, but still.