bv 238 BV 238 the Flying Leviathan thread

[Pony51 6,571]

The BV 238 was announced 14th September 2016 to the surprise and cheer of the community.

Historically only 1 was completed, the unarmed BV 238V1 prototype, but was shot and sunk in Schaalsee Lake in northern Germany by allied fighters.

Two others being built where eventually scrapped.

 

Planned as a Premium because only one was ever built, this heavily armed monster limited to 5000kg of bombs will still put near the top of all bombers in game.

Game performance stat card is here.

 

Comparing other, its armament rivals the top class bombers, the doppelgänger USA B-29 and USSR Tu-4, Britton's Lancaster, and Japans G8N1, but I expect the 238 will be somewhat slower than the others so a reasonable placement is Rank 4 with BR of 4.7 to 5.7 (speed in game is the biggest factor in success of aircraft)

 

NEWS: DEV 1.63.1.x currently places it BR 3.0, Rank 2 Premium for 1850 GE.

 

With such firepower and payload and being a Premium expect it to be profitable

 

 

 

 

 

Outside links

Detailed history of the V1.

Wikipedia

WW2 Net

Some video of operations.

Collection of photos (one is of BV 222 however)

[Pony51 6,571]

 

Great web site on it here

http://axis-and-allies-paintworks.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?12781

 

Info on the real BV238

Quote

The BV 238 V1 prototype, bearing the four-letter Stammkennzeichen (factory radio code) of RO + EZ, first flew on 11 March 1944 after a first jump on 10 March 1944. Six 1,287 kW (1,750 hp) Daimler-Benz DB 603 inverted V12 piston engines were used in total, arranged in three forward-facing engine nacelles on each wing, with each engine's coolant radiator in a chin cowl directly under the engine, bearing an almost identical appearance to those fitted to the Do 217M medium bomber and some examples of the Do 217J night fighter, and possibly were Kraftei, or "power-egg" unitized engine modules.

 

Its demise by RAF, not the often said USAAF (even the pilot called it something else)

Quote

The BV 238 had been still in flyable condition and completely fueled up, when days before the end of WWII a Nazi party man appeared and demanded the gasoline to be pumped off to trucks, and went off. Between 23 and 26 April 1945, British Hawker Typhoons spotted the aircraft, returning the other day and destroying it by machine gun fire. The real amount of damage done is unsure, it is told the engine oil caught fire, the fuselage broke in two and the aicraft sank, with the wing still being over the level of the shallow lake.

(see last image)

 

 

Yes, image below suggests it had 4x retractable waist turrets with remote control stations, however this was a different version that was not planned for production before war ended.  The version in game (238V4) was planned to be built.  

 

 

 

[sigma__zero@psn 4,650]

5.7 is a little too high considering a 4.7 Do 217, while not armed to the teeth defensively, carries an offensive cannon and 4 tons of bombs at higher speed. 4.0-4.3 would do it for me.

[blockhaj 3,559]

The 217 with a cannon doenst carry 4k. The version which carries 4k is just armed with 13 and 7mm mg's.

[sigma__zero@psn 4,650]

10 minutes ago, blockhaj said:

The 217 with a cannon doenst carry 4k. The version which carries 4k is just armed with 13 and 7mm mg's.

 

The Do 217 E-2 has 4x1000 kg, one offensive 20mm MG 151 cannon. The defensive armament is 2x 13mm and 3x 7.92mm machine guns. It's placed at 4.7 BR. The E-4 keeps the same payload but trades one 7.92mm for a defensive 20mm cannon and it's only 5.0.

Edited September 15, 2016 by *sigma__zero

[igeticsu 3,400]

I have a question. The one we are getting ingame talks about 4x quad 13mm and a 2x 20mm turrets. FINE but why does the wiki say:

"4 x 13 mm (0.512 in) MG 131 machine guns with 500 rpg; 2 (as a twinned MG 131Z) in each manually aimed beam/waist position "

 

Does anyone know about this?

[blockhaj 3,559]

5 minutes ago, igeticsu said:

I have a question. The one we are getting ingame talks about 4x quad 13mm and a 2x 20mm turrets. FINE but why does the wiki say:

"4 x 13 mm (0.512 in) MG 131 machine guns with 500 rpg; 2 (as a twinned MG 131Z) in each manually aimed beam/waist position "

 

Does anyone know about this?

Probably a proposed armament. But it could also mean 4x turrets armed with 13mm's.

Edited September 15, 2016 by blockhaj

[sigma__zero@psn 4,650]

33 minutes ago, igeticsu said:

I have a question. The one we are getting ingame talks about 4x quad 13mm and a 2x 20mm turrets. FINE but why does the wiki say:

"4 x 13 mm (0.512 in) MG 131 machine guns with 500 rpg; 2 (as a twinned MG 131Z) in each manually aimed beam/waist position "

 

Does anyone know about this?

 

Since it was an experimental plane there were probably different weapon configurations to test. Or Gaijin decided to omit the waist guns for further "balance".

[the_suztown 2,508]

This might be the largest playable ship in warthunder xaxaxaxa ))))

 

On a serious note I am looking forward to getting my hands on the marval! I have always enjoyed the flying boats and I cant wait to test its metal. Oh and incase anyone missed it the bomb load will not exceed 5000kg for game balance reasons, thoughts on this?

[Tantor57 10,318]

37 minutes ago, the_suztown said:

This might be the largest playable ship in warthunder xaxaxaxa ))))

 

On a serious note I am looking forward to getting my hands on the marval! I have always enjoyed the flying boats and I cant wait to test its metal. Oh and incase anyone missed it the bomb load will not exceed 5000kg for game balance reasons, thoughts on this?

Thought on this is that it'llprobably be wayy slower than a Tu 4 or B 29 with a speed barely exceeding 500 kph with a way lower BR aswell probably 4.3 or 4.7 anyway 2 or 3 of them will be a huge pain to take down since it's downright the best defended bomber in the game 3 rotating turet with quad 13 mm in the fashion of what you can see on the Me 410 wont be anything to laugh at especially sine the 13 mm got finally brough more or less to behave correctly+ the twi Mh 151 20 on the top is the nail in the coffin

[the_suztown 2,508]

33 minutes ago, Tantor57 said:

Thought on this is that it'llprobably be wayy slower than a Tu 4 or B 29 with a speed barely exceeding 500 kph with a way lower BR aswell probably 4.3 or 4.7 anyway 2 or 3 of them will be a huge pain to take down since it's downright the best defended bomber in the game 3 rotating turet with quad 13 mm in the fashion of what you can see on the Me 410 wont be anything to laugh at especially sine the 13 mm got finally brough more or less to behave correctly+ the twi Mh 151 20 on the top is the nail in the coffin

It is a shame that the feel the need to do it, but I see their reasoning for (unlike a certain other choice, still a salty sailor )it in the CURRENT game meta, if in the future bombers get a different style of gameplay I reakon they will be able to expand it safely

[Pony51 6,571]

6 hours ago, *sigma__zero said:

5.7 is a little too high considering a 4.7 Do 217, while not armed to the teeth defensively, carries an offensive cannon and 4 tons of bombs at higher speed. 4.0-4.3 would do it for me.

 

why I had range from 4.7 to 5.7

[Hopit 4,416]

It's really bothering me atm that all the new vehicles I am/was likely to get, are currently premium

Edited September 15, 2016 by Hopit

[Pony51 6,571]

12 minutes ago, Hopit said:

It's really bothering me atm that all the new vehicles I am/was likely to get, are currently premium

 

Not the place to talk about it, and I have 0 input on plans (I wish I did!).

[Pony51 6,571]

1 hour ago, Tantor57 said:

Thought on this is that it'llprobably be wayy slower than a Tu 4 or B 29 with a speed barely exceeding 500 kph with a way lower BR aswell probably 4.3 or 4.7 anyway 2 or 3 of them will be a huge pain to take down since it's downright the best defended bomber in the game 3 rotating turet with quad 13 mm in the fashion of what you can see on the Me 410 wont be anything to laugh at especially sine the 13 mm got finally brough more or less to behave correctly+ the twi Mh 151 20 on the top is the nail in the coffin

 

5x turret

4 are Quad-13mm

1 is Dual 20mm

 

The closest comparison is Pe-8, and rear attacks are almost suicide, and this monster has 4x the armament.

Then consider the game changer the H8K is, especially the H8K3.  Even though Rank 2, its BR of a Rank 3.

 

ALTHOUGH, GJ may drop it in Rank 2 with BR of Rank 4?  Not an honest position. 

[Phaethon666 102]

I cannot wait to Rocket attack this bad boy.  Looks fantastic!

[sigma__zero@psn 4,650]

7 hours ago, the_suztown said:

This might be the largest playable ship in warthunder xaxaxaxa ))))

 

On a serious note I am looking forward to getting my hands on the marval! I have always enjoyed the flying boats and I cant wait to test its metal. Oh and incase anyone missed it the bomb load will not exceed 5000kg for game balance reasons, thoughts on this?

 

If it helps keeping the BR low I don't mind. Bigger bombload at the cost of speed in an already slow plane don't sound like something good at all.

 

7 hours ago, Tantor57 said:

Thought on this is that it'llprobably be wayy slower than a Tu 4 or B 29 with a speed barely exceeding 500 kph with a way lower BR aswell probably 4.3 or 4.7 anyway 2 or 3 of them will be a huge pain to take down since it's downright the best defended bomber in the game 3 rotating turet with quad 13 mm in the fashion of what you can see on the Me 410 wont be anything to laugh at especially sine the 13 mm got finally brough more or less to behave correctly+ the twi Mh 151 20 on the top is the nail in the coffin

 

The thing is huge. It won't be a problem for a cannon armed fighter to take shots at it from longer ranges where the MG 131 are not very effective and the cannons have a blind spot. Taking out an engine or two will take a toll on its performance (They're inline engines so I expect plenty of coolant leaks from flak damage). It doesn't seem all that hard to kill. I hope the DM proves me wrong.

 

5 hours ago, Pony51 said:

 

5x turret

4 are Quad-13mm

1 is Dual 20mm

 

The closest comparison is Pe-8, and rear attacks are almost suicide, and this monster has 4x the armament.

Then consider the game changer the H8K is, especially the H8K3.  Even though Rank 2, its BR of a Rank 3.

 

ALTHOUGH, GJ may drop it in Rank 2 with BR of Rank 4?  Not an honest position. 

 

The Pe-8 has the same payload, faster speed, a smaller profile and the cannon has a much wider arc to cover it from rear attacks. The cannons on this one have a more limited arc that restrict it from attacking planes behind and low, which will probably be the favored approach. The MGs will probably make close attacks suicide, but long range attacks are still possible.

[Guest]

22 hours ago, Pony51 said:

heavily armed monster limited to 5000kg of bombs

 

Why? More anti-German bias? Also will the Bv 250 be released as well?

 

Edited September 16, 2016 by Guest

[Asakaze 992]

17 minutes ago, TT33b said:

 

Why? More anti-German bias? Also will the Bv 250 be released as well?

 

Because for balance reason since bombers in it's br range doesn't have that big of a payload

As for the BV 250, it has a very low (or none at all) chance of being added since it doesn't have a version constructed and we don't know how it looks like and how it will perform.

Edited September 16, 2016 by Asakaze

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Asakaze said:

Because for balance reason since bombers in it's br range

 

So nerfage then......

[GeneralArmchair 675]

18 hours ago, Tantor57 said:

Thought on this is that it'llprobably be wayy slower than a Tu 4 or B 29 with a speed barely exceeding 500 kph with a way lower BR aswell probably 4.3 or 4.7 anyway 2 or 3 of them will be a huge pain to take down since it's downright the best defended bomber in the game 3 rotating turet with quad 13 mm in the fashion of what you can see on the Me 410 wont be anything to laugh at especially sine the 13 mm got finally brough more or less to behave correctly+ the twi Mh 151 20 on the top is the nail in the coffin

I can't agree with your assessment that it is the best defended bomber in the game.  Not by a longshot.   Sure it has a lot of guns.   However most all of them are facing towards the rear.   Attacking from that rear arc may be suicide, but the bomber is vulnerable from other angles.   Most notably attacks from below and the sides of the plane but forward of the wing guns.

 

It appears to have no defensive coverage whatsoever from below (which makes sense because you can't put turrets there because it's a boat).

 

This is a big slow plane that likely doesn't climb or maneuver very well.   Destroying it should be a simple matter of diving down beyond the range of it's 13mm's to outpace the bomber and get below it.   Once below the BV-238, climb up and direct your attacks towards its vulnerable underbelly (or more accurately the underside of one of its wings).   The thing is larger than the broadside of a barn, so it shouldn't be hard to hit.

 

The best defended bomber is still by far the Tu-4 with its near perfect sphere of coverage with its turbo lasers.   The B-29 comes in second place with the same coverage with .50's.     Competition is tougher for third place, but  have a hard time imagining the BV-238 even making it into the top 10 most difficult to kill bombers.

[CheapSushi 566]

Where are the two  MG 131Z  beam gunners? 

[Tantor57 10,318]

1 hour ago, GeneralArmchair said:

I can't agree with your assessment that it is the best defended bomber in the game.  Not by a longshot.   Sure it has a lot of guns.   However most all of them are facing towards the rear.   Attacking from that rear arc may be suicide, but the bomber is vulnerable from other angles.   Most notably attacks from below and the sides of the plane but forward of the wing guns.

 

It appears to have no defensive coverage whatsoever from below (which makes sense because you can't put turrets there because it's a boat).

 

This is a big slow plane that likely doesn't climb or maneuver very well.   Destroying it should be a simple matter of diving down beyond the range of it's 13mm's to outpace the bomber and get below it.   Once below the BV-238, climb up and direct your attacks towards its vulnerable underbelly (or more accurately the underside of one of its wings).   The thing is larger than the broadside of a barn, so it shouldn't be hard to hit.

 

The best defended bomber is still by far the Tu-4 with its near perfect sphere of coverage with its turbo lasers.   The B-29 comes in second place with the same coverage with .50's.     Competition is tougher for third place, but  have a hard time imagining the BV-238 even making it into the top 10 most difficult to kill bombers.

According to it's BR it'll be the best defended bomber in the game. also do not count from blind spot too much when attacking from above, the 3 turrets armed with 4 MG131 can rotate on 180° on the horizontal axis and the guns can traverse verticaly on 90° up and down. Also all these gun firing the API round of the MG 131 will litterally tear thing apart with 900 rounds per minute, these rounds are effective at every distance since these are modelled as explosive rounds. The only safe way to approach this plane is from the front, anything else would be a bit suicidal given the effectiveness of bombers gunners currently

[sigma__zero@psn 4,650]

8 minutes ago, Tantor57 said:

According to it's BR it'll be the best defended bomber in the game.

 

Do you know what BR it will be?

 

[Tantor57 10,318]

Not high at all. It only has half the speed of a B29 and it's climb will be abyssmal it'll be froced to stay between 3000 and 4500 meters maximum so I think a BR below 5.0 is highly probable