aircraft/loadouts Dassault/Dornier Alpha Jet for Germany

[Blaser93 418]

The Dassault/Dornier Alpha Jet is a light attack jet and advanced trainer aircraft co-manufactured by Dassault Aviation of France and Dornier Flugzeugwerke of Germany. It was developed specifically to perform the trainer and light attack missions, as well as to perform these duties more ideally than the first generation of jet trainers that preceded it. Following a competition, a design submitted by a team comprising Breguet Aviation, Dassault Aviation, and Dornier Flugzeugwerke, initially designated as the TA501, was selected and subsequently produced as the Alpha Jet. It's first flight was on the 26th October 1973 and entered service on the 4th November 1977. 480 Alpha Jets have been built.

Origins

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In the early 1960s, European air forces began to consider their requirements for the coming decades. One such area of consideration was the requirement for a new generation of jet-powered trainer aircraft to replace such aircraft as the US-built Lockheed T-33 Shooting Star and French-built Fouga Magister. Britain and France established a collaborative program to pursue development of what was initially intended to become a supersonic jet aircraft. This aircraft was to be produced in two distinct variants for different roles: trainer and light attack aircraft. The result of this collaboration, the SEPECAT Jaguar, proved to be an excellent aircraft, but its definition had changed in the interim, and the type emerged as a full-sized, nuclear-capable strike fighter, whose two-seat variants were used for operational conversion to the type. As such, the Jaguar was not well suited for the general training mission.

 

This left the original requirement unfulfilled; as a result of this outcome, in 1967, France entered into a series of discussions with West Germany on the topic of a prospective collaboration effort to meet this demand.West Germany was keen to participate in such talks, having long held an interest in conducting joint training operations with France along with a desire for strengthening positive political relations between the two nations. France also valued military cooperation with West Germany, wanting to break a perceived German ideological preference for American aircraft. In 1968, a joint specification was produced out of these talks. One substantial change to the requirements was that the sought trainer was now specified to be subsonic, supersonic trainer aircraft having proven to be superfluous to practical requirements. In July 1969, a joint development and production agreement was signed between West Germany and France; under the terms of this agreement, the two nations committed to purchasing 200 aircraft, these being domestically assembled in each of their own countries.

 

At one point, both the German government and the German Air Force had been keen to relocate pilot training activities from the United States to France as part of the project. In 1971, however, this was abandoned over fears of a hostile US reaction and West Germany's offset obligations to the United States making such a move unpalatable. While the joint Franko-German training proposal was abandoned, the German government felt obligated to proceed with the aircraft program; at the time, Germany did not require a new trainer aircraft, but it did have a need for a replacement for its fleet of Fiat G.91 attack aircraft. Accordingly, Germany proposed that the aircraft be built in two distinct versions, as an inexpensive trainer for the French requirement, and as a close air support platform for the German requirement; this position was accepted by France. An initial point of contention whether to use a French or American powerplant for the aircraft was also settled, with France agreeing to solely finance the development of the French-built Larzac engine while Germany agreed to adopt the same powerplant.

 

A total of three groups of manufacturers produced proposals in response to the requirement; these were Dassault, Breguet and Dornier submitted the "TA501", which had been developed through a merger of the Breguet 126 and Dornier P.375 concepts, VFW-Fokker submitted their "VFT-291" aircraft, while SNIAS/MBB submitted the "E.650 Eurotrainer". Each of these proposals were to be powered by twin SNECMA Turbomeca Larzac turbofan engines. The German Air Force had insisted that the trainer have two engines after having suffered from severe aircraft attrition rates due to the high accident rate of the single-engine Lockheed F-104 Starfighter.

 

Production

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On 23 July 1970, the Breguet-Dassault-Dornier TA501 was declared the winner of the competition. In February 1971, the project definition phase was formally completed and the integrated design team was formally set up at Saint-Cloud, Paris, France; that same month, a join Franco-German protocol was signed, launching the construction of four prototypes. In February 1972, the approval to proceed with full development was issued. In May 1972, the first project meeting was held in Bordeaux, at which the order for the four prototypes was formally placed. By November 1972, the project had passed its first mock-up review. Dassault was designated as the 'pilot' company for the project and possessed final authority on design and management decisions, this approach to project management has been claimed to have been a mostly efficient manner of running the program.

 

Two prototypes were to be built by Dassault in France (Dassault having bought out Breguet in the meantime) and a further two were to be built by Dornier in Germany. On 26 October 1973, the first French prototype performed its first flight at Istres, Marseille; on 9 January 1974, the first German prototype conducted its maiden flight from Oberpfaffenhofen, Bavaria. The remaining two prototypes were in the air before the end of 1974. The first and second prototypes were used to explore the aircraft's flight envelope, the third prototype was fitted with the French trainer equipment fit and the fourth with the German close air support equipment. The prototypes were equipped with recording and telemetry equipment packages, allowing for instrumentation readings and other useful data to be received on the ground in real time during test flights.

 

Manufacture of Alpha Jet sub-assemblies was divided between France (Dassault), Germany (Dornier) and Belgium (SABCA), each country performing final assembly and checkout of the type in separate facilities. Dassault hosted the largest of these three assembly lines, typically producing 13 aircraft per month to meet the needs of French and export customers, it was reportedly capable of a maximum output of 15 Alpha Jets per month; the Dornier final assembly line typically maintained a maximum rate of six aircraft per month. In contrast to the final assembly arrangements, none of the three sources duplicated the manufacture of any component: Dassault-Breguet produced the front and center fuselage, Dornier constructed the wing, tail and rear fuselage, while SABCA manufactured the nose and flaps of the aircraft. A total of 4,500 people were employed in the manufacturing of the Alpha Jet in Germany, an equal number in France also worked on the programme.

 

Both Belgium and Egypt, who were early export customers for the Alpha Jet, domestically performed the final assembly of their French-configuration Alpha Jet E aircraft. On 17 September 1978, Dassault and the Arab Organization for Industrialization (AOI) signed a license manufacturing agreement for the Alpha Jet; Egypian assembly work was carried out in a facility in Helwan, Egypt. In July 1978, Dassault signed an agreement with American aircraft manufacture Lockheed to market the Alpha Jet in the US market, the arrangement included provisions for Lockheed to manufacture the Alpha Jet under license. It was considered as a candidate for the US Navy's VTXTS advanced trainer program (eventually won by the McDonnell Douglas T-45 Goshawk, a modified version of the Hawker Siddeley Hawk); proposed modifications included undercarriage changes for nose-tow catapults and a stronger arrestor hook, as well as various US-sourced avionics and other equipment.

 

On 4 November 1977, the first production aircraft made its first flight. In September 1978, deliveries of production Alpha Jets formally commenced. The four prototypes remained in service as flying testbeds, being used for further development of the type such as to evaluate a composite graphite-epoxy wing and improved versions of the Larzac engine. Prototype 01 was specifically used early on to support the development of the Larzac engine. The different avionics fit makes French and German Alpha Jets relatively easy to visually distinguish the two, with French planes featuring a rounded-off nose and German ones featuring a sharp, pointed nose.

 

Design

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The Alpha Jet is a light twin-engine aircraft equipped with an intentionally simple airframe despite the performance delivered. Both the leading edges and air intakes are fixed; while the aerodynamic shape of the aircraft, which was developed with the aid of computer aided design (CAD), conforms with the area rule.[ Fully powered controls are used, comprising a dual-hydraulic systems and load-factor limited dynamic feel system arrangement attached to conventional flight control surfaces. The cockpit is pressurised for greater comfort during training. The Alpha Jet is designed to accommodate ten-minute turn around times with minimal ground equipment, using features such as pressurised single-point refueling, ladder-less entering/egress of the cockpit, and a ten-hour endurance of the liquid oxygen system.

 

The Alpha Jet was designed to perform a diverse range of roles. The principal users of the type, Germany and France, operated their Alpha Jets in different capacities, the former as a ground attack platform and the latter as a trainer aircraft. Beyond performing different roles, the Alpha Jet fleets of France and Germany noticeably differed in their specification and equipment; German aircraft were fitted with a more extensive weapon-aiming system, a different fuel system, a yaw damper, different brakes, nosewheel steering, an arrester hook, and Stencel ejector seats in place of Martin-Baker. According to aerospace publication Flight International, the majority of the specialised equipment used on the ground attack-orientated variant of the Alpha Jet was provided by German firms. In addition to the ground attack role, the Luftwaffe also employed the Alpha Jet in the electronic countermeasures (ECM) and aerial reconnaissance roles; for the latter purpose, a reconnaissance pod could be fitted upon the port hardpoint.

 

The Alpha Jet is powered by a pair of SNECMA Turbomeca Larzac turbofan engines. It is a low bypass-ratio, twin-spool engine that uses modular construction methods. The Larzac was a new engine at the time, having only performed its first run a year prior to being selected to power the Alpha Jet. The need for greater thrust to power the aircraft that the original model of the engine could generate led to the development and adoption of the 2,970lb Larzac 04 in February 1972; it was this version of the engine that initially powered the Alpha Jet. Germany was interested in powering the type with the General Electric J85, but France objected to the use of an American engine which would result in US export restrictions upon the overall aircraft and agreed to assume the cost of developing the French-built Larzac. During the 1980s, an upgraded model of the Larzac engine which increased the thrust by 10 per cent was developed.

 

The avionics of the original version of the Alpha Jet were of an austere nature, partly to make it a simple and easily exportable aircraft. The basic type lacked features such as an autopilot, inertial navigation, or a radar. Later upgrade programs would typically focus on the addition of a glass cockpit and other avionics systems. The Luftwaffe's Alpha Jets were equipped with additional avionics for the attack role, such as a Doppler radar and additional hardpoints. During the 1970s, Dornier claimed that the Alpha Jet outperformed aircraft used as the McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II, LTV A-7 Corsair II, and Fairchild Republic A-10 Thunderbolt II in the close air support role; the firms specifically stated that the Alpha Jet was smaller, faster, less vulnerable, more maneuverable, cheaper and had higher all-round performance than the A-10.

According to aerospace publication Flight International, the Alpha Jet was more complex that competing second generation trainer aircraft, required seven man hours of maintenance for every flight hour. Nearly 5,000 of munitions and equipment may be carried upon a total of five hardpoints, four of these being located upon the wings and a single one at the centerline on the lower fuselage. In an armed configuration, a gun pod containing a 30 mm DEFA cannon (as installed on French aircraft) or 27 mm Mauser BK-27 cannon (as installed on German aircraft) would be typically be installed upon the centerline hard point.

 

Operational Use by Germany

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The Luftwaffe decided to use the Alpha Jet mainly in the light strike role, preferring to continue flight training in the southwestern United States on American trainer types instead of performing training in Germany, although Germany also used Alpha Jets based at Beja, Portugal for weapons training. On 12 April 1978, the first production German Alpha Jet performed its maiden flight, deliveries commenced in March 1979. It was designated the Alpha Jet A (the "A" standing for Appui Tactique or "Tactical Strike") or Alpha Jet Close Support variant. The Luftwaffe obtained a total of 175 aircraft up to 1983, the type was used to replace the Fiat G91R/3 fleet.

 

In 1985, Germany began a comprehensive upgrade program, known as the Improved Combat Efficiency (ICE) program, for their Alpha Jet fleet; these upgrades were to involve the installation of a Mil Spec 1553B databus, new sensors integrated with the navigation/attack systems, modernized electronic countermeasures suite, measures to minimize the aircraft's radar and infrared signatures, protection measures around the fuel system, and new armaments such as the AGM-65 Maverick. In 1988, it was announced that the ICE program has been cancelled. A more austere upgrade program did proceed in its place, which integrated the AIM-9L Sidewinder air-to-air missile and navigation computer upgrades, along with several minor airframe and equipment refinements, such as the addition of a jettisonable gun pod.

 

In 1992, the Luftwaffe began to phase out their Alpha Jet A aircraft, reserving 45 for lead-in fighter training. In 1993, a total of 50 were passed on to Portugal to replace the Northrop T-38 Talon and Fiat G.91 fleets, with five of these used for spares. The rest of the Luftwaffe's Alpha Jets were gradually phased out, the last leaving service in 1998, and customers were sought to buy them. In October 1995, the German military offered 42 Alpha Jets to Poland for 143 million PLN. In 1999, 25 Alpha Jets were sold to Thailand at 1 million baht ($27,000) each, replacing the North American OV-10 Bronco in the border patrol role; while the British Defence Evaluation and Research Agency obtained 12 as chase aircraft and flight test platforms due to a shortage in available BAE Systems Hawk aircraft for the role.

 

Germany was keen to sell the retired Alpha Jets quickly since they were reported as costing around DM100,000 ($55,000) to keep in storage each month. Fairchild-Dornier received a US$43 million contract to refurbish a number of the aircraft and provide support to the end users. Apparently 32 more, including two spares hulks, were sold to the United Arab Emirates, though details are unclear. Several were also sold to private owners, such as those used by the Austrian-based Flying Bulls flight demonstration team, which flies a range of classic aircraft.

 

Specifications:

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• Crew: 2
• Length: 13.23 metres (43.41 feet)
• Width: 9.11 metres (29.89 feet)
• Height: 4.19 metres (13.75 feet)
• Weight (Empty): 3,570 kg (7,871 lb)
• Weight (MTOW): 7,600 kg (16,755 lb)
• Powerplant: 2 x SNECMA/Tubomecha Larzac 04-C20 turbofan engines, 3,175 lb of thrust each
• Max Speed: 999 km/h (621 mph, 539 knots)
• Max Range: 583 km (362 miles)
• Service Ceiling: 14,630 metres (47,999 feet, 9.1 miles)
• Rate of Climb: 3,658 m/min (12,000 feet per minute)

 

 

Armament:

 

• 1 x 27mm  Mauser BK-27 Revolver cannon in centreline gun pack with 120 rounds
• Two Matra rocket pods with eighteen SNEB 68 mm rockets each or two CRV7 rocket pods with nineteen 70 mm rockets each
• Two AIM-9 Sidewinders; two Matra Magic IIs; two AGM-65 Mavericks (Which obviously won't be added)
• 2,500 kg (5,500 lb) of payload on five external hardpoints, including a variety of bombs (such as the Hunting BL755 cluster bomb) or Drop tanks for extended range

 

Aircraft Images

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Mauser BK-27

[Blaser93 418]

The Mauser BK-27 (German acronym for Bordkanone, "on-board cannon") is a 27 mm (1.063 in) caliber revolver cannon manufactured by Mauser (now part of Rheinmetall) of Germany. It was developed in the late 1960s for the MRCA (Multi Role Combat Aircraft) program that ultimately became the Panavia Tornado. The BK 27 is a gas-operated cannon firing a new series of 27x145 mm projectiles with a typical weight of 260 g (9.2 oz). Most models use a linked feed system for the ammunition; however, the Eurofighter Typhoon makes use of a specially developed variant of the BK 27 that uses a linkless feed system instead, which is intended to improve reliability. It was designed in 1976 and started production in 1977 with more than 3,100 to date.

 

Design:

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The Mauser BK 27 is used in the Panavia Tornado, the Alpha Jet, the JAS 39 Gripen, and the Eurofighter Typhoon. At one time the USAF was considering to license its production for the F-35 Lightning II joint strike fighter, but those plans have been cancelled in favour of the GAU-22/A. Rheinmetall has also developed remote controlled naval versions, the MN 27 GS and the MLG 27 fully automatic naval guns, which are installed on many ships of the German Navy. Ninety-nine MLG 27s have been ordered by the German Navy so far. The cannon is a single-barrel, high performance, breech-cylinder gun operated by a fully automatic electrically fired gas-operated system at a selective rate of 1000 or 1700 rounds per minute. The Mauser BK 27 utilizes pyrotechnic cocking charges to cycle the action. The BK27 has a much lower nominal fire rate than the M61 Vulcan, but its fire rate is constant throughout shooting due to the fact the cannon need not spin up. As a result, in conjunction with the higher caliber, the Mauser BK 27 fires in the first second 4 kg of projectiles in contrast to the 2 kg of the M61 Vulcan which also needs about 25kW electrical energy on the maximum fire rate.

 

Specifications:

 

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• Weight: 100 kg (220 lb, 7 oz)

• Length: 2.31 m (7 ft 7 in)

• Barrel length: 1.73 m (5 ft 8 in)

• Shell: 27x145 mm

• Caliber: 27 mm (1.063 in) caliber

• Barrels: Single barrel

• Action: revolver

• Rate of fire: 1,000-1,700 rpm (+/- 100rpm), selectable

• Muzzle velocity: 1,100 m/s (3,600 ft/s)

 

 

Reference for the Alpha Jet

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• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault/Dornier_Alpha_Jet
• http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=344

 

 

 

 

Reference for the Mauser BK-27

 

 

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauser_BK-27

 

Images of the Mauser BK-27

 

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[CokeSpray 7,274]

Open for discussion.

[Veraklion 97]

Seems fine to me, people keep complaining about honestly ridiculous timeline limits, but this thing doesn't go faster than a Sabre, so I don't see the problem. Although I think its firepower is questionable, only 120 rounds? Yikes.

[BabaBert 84]

The problem I see with this aircraft is, that it was introduced and developed in a time where digital warfare and guided missile systems were a standard. The plane don't suit to war thunder, cause it was way too late developed in a time which you can't call post war anymore but mainly because it doesn’t fit in the gameplay mechanics of war thunder has now. Although we already have guided missiles in the game the weapons we are talking about are way too modern for the game and not comparable with the ones we have now in the game. To make it playable you have to develop a system that makes the type of warfare fair and playable for everyone but this is not the case now, or to leave the missiles away but even then it's way to modern and don’t suit to the other aircrafts and vehicles and especially to type of game war thunder is now.

Edited November 6, 2016 by BabaBert

[Umbriellan 2,986]

14 minutes ago, BabaBert said:

it's way to modern and don’t suit to the other aircrafts and vehicles and especially to type of game war thunder is now.

 

It's the issue there:

The exclusive conditions are respected: (1) no "only" anti-air missiles, (2) no afterburner;

 

But the environnement of this unit (even if there is the anti-air used in his introduction-time: Vulcan, Shilka, Gepard, ZSU-57-2, Falcon) is not respected and all his caracteristicts (electronic, other), even the DM are unsuitable / unusable / broken.

 

Basicaly, it could appear... but introduce him in-game is like giving birth to a disabled child. Not the greatest idea in this ruthless world.

 

-so it's a "No" from me. As long as the game is like that.

And If it's accepted in the German tree, the French one should also appear.

Edited November 6, 2016 by Umbriellan

[Vitasalato 681]

Performance wise this plane is compatible with the game. Who says that this plane is over the time limit cut off, probably don't know that there is no Cut off date anymore, but only "technological cutoff".

 

Not sure that this plane will be compatible with the current meta of game since the primary role of this plane is light attacker, and might not be very effective as jet fighter.

[swpixy 1,220]

I think this would be a nice thing to have as top end of the german attackers.Flight performance is not really breaking balance (its light,nimble,climbs well,but does not go particulary fast,especially with armament).As far as the missile armament is concerned-early version doesnt have much in that regard,and what it has can simply be left out.Other than that,nothing really problematic in its armament-The Clusterbombs would be interresting,and the Durandals (if implemented properly and avaiable to it) would probably be interresting in modes like Enduring confrontation.Gun armament is unproblematic,the BK.27 is quite powerful but gets very little ammo (120 rounds are gone pretty quick with that RoF).

So overall,i dont really see much reason to not implement it.

[Querulous1 3,276]

Not game breaking so fine. We seem to like adding new weapon systems (like the new AA vehicles moving things along a little) so could be a nice addition - provided it is balanced with top planes it will fight against

[dotEXCEL 5,969]

+1

 

[Delta_48 471]

Meh.... why not...

[Blaser93 418]

Found a pdf for the flight manual.

http://www.avialogs.com/en/aircraft/europe-and-consortiums/dassault-dornier/alpha-jet/gaf-to-1f-ajet-1-flight-manual-alpha-jet.html

[MrMakWASP 1,412]

On one hand its a plane from the 70s.

 

On the other hand nothign about its armament or performance screams "NOPE NOPE NOPE" to me like that Corsair II proposal a while back. Although this would depend on just how manuverable it is and how well it accelerates.

 

Based on what I can see so far id say BR. 8.7-9.0 after the HO-229 woudl be an ideal place for it.

Edited December 5, 2016 by MrMakWASP

[BlitzkriegWulf 4,265]

On 11/6/2016 at 3:32 AM, Veraklion said:

Seems fine to me, people keep complaining about honestly ridiculous timeline limits, but this thing doesn't go faster than a Sabre, so I don't see the problem. Although I think its firepower is questionable, only 120 rounds? Yikes.

 

At highest selectable rate of fire... 4,2 seconds of fire. at slower selected fire, 6,5 seconds of fire...  (1700 rpm, 1100 rpm respectively.) Really just depends on what ammo is being shot i think. If you get a lot of splashes, yes, it will seem underwhelming... But I think with a good connection (no splashes/sparks), it could be doable.

 

I would be more concerned with wing-loading and maneuverability, which is what later jets focused on. 

 

On 11/6/2016 at 5:28 AM, Vitasalato said:

Performance wise this plane is compatible with the game. Who says that this plane is over the time limit cut off, probably don't know that there is no Cut off date anymore, but only "technological cutoff".

 

Not sure that this plane will be compatible with the current meta of game since the primary role of this plane is light attacker, and might not be very effective as jet fighter.

 

What I last saw from a Q&A with Anton Yudintsev (A year ago, more or less), this was said: 

18. How far are you planning to do the tech trees? So far, we have seen aircraft and vehicles from the 1950s and 1960s, so would it be likely to see aircraft like the Lightning and Vulcan as well? Or are you planning in going "backwards" in time?

Anton: "Generally, the answer is quite simple, although it can be a lengthy one. War Thunder is a very realistic game regarding physics and damage modelling, and we want to keep it that way. For aircraft, that means we are limited to vehicles not equipped with good enough Air-to-Air missiles, as that would change the gameplay completely - or rather, it would remove any gameplay altogether. You just lock on the target, release the missile, and that basically is the whole combat. There is no classic dogfighting with modern combat jets, as the individual pilot's skill is much less important here, compared to the WWII and Korean War eras. Early jets will thus most likely remain the end of the tech tree there, as later ones all come with Air-to-Air missiles.

For tanks the combat situation changed as well, but much later. Even vehicles from the 1970ies were not equipped with potent missiles that could be used without actually seeing or manually guiding for the enemy. So, with tanks, we'll probably go up to the 1970ies, while with aircraft we'll stop in the 1960ies - when missiles took over combat. And this decision is purely a gameplay one, as combat with missiles in a Realistic game is, well, boring."

 

The thread you linked was from roughly the same time (Closed on Sept 3 2015, vs the Q&A taking place August 28/29th 2015). 

 

So, I'm not trying to start an argument, just wanted to point out that the CEO is saying one thing, and the thread (From what I gather in a 30s read), might be saying another.

[Wilhuff_Tarkin_ 467]

Loaded weight: 5,000 kg (11,000 lb)

Powerplant: 2 × SNECMA Turbomeca Larzac 04-C5 turbofans, 13.24 kN (2,976 lbf) each

Rate of climb: 57 m/s (11,220 ft/min)

 

Defenetly NO. Its got better climb rate than Hunter or Mig 15bis.

-1 from me

[Z3r0_ 4,128]

My main complaint about this is that climb rate, which frankly is ridiculous by the game's current standards.  I'm going to have to say 'no' for that reason.

[swpixy 1,220]

Just wrote a suggestion on this and totally forgot that this one already existed (got locked,of course).Im going to put it here though as sort-of a "Stats 2.0" on the A-version of the Alphajet (the relevant version in this case,since thats what germany used)

 

Spoiler

History

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TL;DR version-Germany and France wanted a Trainer/Light attacker in the late 60s-early 70s and developed this plane.This particular version entered service in 1980,and was put out of service in 1997 due to demilitarisation contracts.

Dimensions

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TL;DR version-in between a F-86 Sabre and a G.91 in terms of size.Pretty light,too,but can take alot of weight along.

Performance

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TL/DR version-VERY maneuverable,Good climb,but not very fast.

Armament

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TL;DR version-Can carry alot of external load,but only conventional,unguided munitions.Can be armed with a powerful 27mm cannon,but only gets one of them (and not a whole lot of ammunition for it,either)

Performance in game&Implementation

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TL;DR version-Jet-powered,Hightier equivalent to a Early-model Zero.Good at short range and low speeds,but not very fast in a straight line and absolutely cant take hits.Within the limits of the Game.

Pictures

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Sources

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Flight manual:http://www.avialogs.com/viewer/avialogs-documentviewer.php?id=15458

Documentary:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwKkE_GYlTU

Book:https://www.amazon.de/Alpha-Jet-Bernd-Vetter/dp/3613030055

Gun:http://www.whq-forum.de/cms/205.0.html

Engine:http://www.mtu.de/de/engines/militaerische-triebwerke/fighter-aircraft/larzac-04/

Other sources:

http://www.geschichte.luftwaffe.de/portal/a/geschlw/start/waffe/jagdbo/alpha/!ut/p/z1/hU69DoIwGHwWB9Z-FQTBrcRFrYkJRqGLKVALplJSKvj4YphMNN52vzlgkAJreF9LbmvdcDXyjAWXOKRH6kauS0_RGm_m-50fRbEb-D6c_wXYaOMfIBiSUkA2bix_btAFJMCA3XjPn6jVxiphES_eDyGreFMqcdAFmYQtMKl0Pl0nTe6FEpgRV2GEQQ8zypW1bbdysIOHYUBSa6kEKoWDvzUq3VlIP4LQ3tMBe77qKZm9AMAmF-g!/dz/d5/L2dBISEvZ0FBIS9nQSEh/#Z7_B8LTL2922LV9D0I1MK599B26L4

http://www.fzt.haw-hamburg.de/pers/Scholz/dglr/hh/text_2015_01_22_Alpha-Jet.pdf

 

 

 

 

I used the Flight Manual for the Alphajet A (the relevant version in this case) and posted the link to it,so if anyone wants to know exact details of the aircraft,theres your 100% accurate source on it.

On a sidenote-The 57m/s climbrate is something the Alphajet could only archieve when basically running on fumes,with a single pilot,and no gunpod and pylons attached ("Clean" configuration).The lightest "combat configuration" for this plane ends up around ~50-52m/s-actually lower than the Hawker Hunter we have in game right now (which is at 55m/s).

[dotEXCEL 5,969]

I wanna see the G.91 R/3 first. Maybe put the alpha on 10.0 with other compairable jets

[GeneralRoach 62]

5 hours ago, dotEXCEL said:

I wanna see the G.91 R/3 first. Maybe put the alpha on 10.0 with other compairable jets

Do you think the R/3 will end up with italy despite its modification as a german fighter? The G56 in game has german markings as it was to be the best prop for germany at the time but proved too expensive, so I wonder if the R/3 will be the same thing and stay in the italian line.

[Shinzu 460]

Sub Sonic ground attacker <3 :o yeah why not +1

[dotEXCEL 5,969]

17 hours ago, GeneralRoach said:

Do you think the R/3 will end up with italy despite its modification as a german fighter? The G56 in game has german markings as it was to be the best prop for germany at the time but proved too expensive, so I wonder if the R/3 will be the same thing and stay in the italian line.

The italians used mostly R/1B, R/4 and Y.

Yes, i think so. Do you think that the alpha will end up in the german tt and not in the french?

 

Edit: R/1B= R/1 with 30mm

Besides, the german R/3 was produced by Dornier as well

Edited June 13, 2017 by dotEXCEL

[Shinzu 460]

4 minutes ago, dotEXCEL said:

The italians used mostly R/1B, R/4 and Y. I thinks so yes. Do you think that the alpha will end up in the german tt and not in the french?

 

Edit: R/1B= R/1 with 30mm

It was a co-manufactured project between germany and france and they both used them for a long time ^^

Edited June 13, 2017 by Shinzu

[dotEXCEL 5,969]

22 minutes ago, Shinzu said:

It was a co-manufactured project between germany and france and they both used them for a long time ^^

Same as the R/3 most of those improvments (additional hardpoints, 30mm cannons, sturdier wingspars) were made/requested by the bundeswehr.

 

We used the R/3 longer than the alpha which was quickly replaced as a fighterbomber with the tornado

 

Edit: Still i have nothing against the alpha, but the R/3 must come first, then the jet which replaced it

Edited June 13, 2017 by dotEXCEL

[dontask123456649 404]

+1 a needed addition to Germans, and not op as the climbrate is only when running  light, as long as other nations get comparable jets, i feel like this has a place in the game

[tavo89 381]

+1